The Effects of Cannabis (Marijuana) on the Brain & Body | Huberman Lab Podcast #92

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- Welcome to the Huberman Lab Podcast.

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where we discuss science and science-based tools

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for everyday life.

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[bright music]

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I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology

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and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.

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Today, we are discussing cannabis,

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also referred to as marijuana.

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Cannabis includes many different compounds

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that have profound impact on the brain and body,

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so while many of you have probably heard of THC,

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there are also compounds in cannabis such as CBD,

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and of course there are different types

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or strains of cannabis,

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including sativa strains and indica strains

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and hybrid strains, and believe it or not,

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nowadays, there is also an entire literature,

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meaning a scientific and medicinal literature

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about type one, type two and type three strains.

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I'll explain what all of that is and how they work.

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I'll talk about some of the medicinal applications

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of different strains of cannabis

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and combinations of cannabis strains,

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as well as some of the potential health hazards

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of cannabis use.

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I want to emphasize that any discussion about cannabis

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has to be framed within the context

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that the legality of cannabis varies tremendously

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depending on where you are in the world,

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so depending on which country you're in

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and even which state you're in

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or which area within a country,

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possessing and using and certainly selling cannabis

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can be either highly illegal or entirely legal

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or decriminalized or largely overlooked.

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You, of course, are obligated to know

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what those local laws are for you,

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where you live and where you travel.

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With that said, today's discussion

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really will include a full picture

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as to where cannabis and the various

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and even very specific compounds within cannabis

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can be extremely useful in the treatment of some ailments

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and where certain compounds in cannabis

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can be extremely dangerous for certain individuals to use,

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in particular, individuals that have preexisting,

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genetic propensity for psychosis.

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That theme is going to come up again and again,

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but we are also going to talk about the role of cannabis

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in anxiety and depression,

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both positive and negative effects.

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We'll talk about sex differences

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in terms of women versus men

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and how they react differently to cannabis,

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and I would be entirely remiss

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if I didn't include a conversation about cannabis,

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meaning THC, CBD, hybrid strains, et cetera

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in creativity and different modes of thinking,

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because as many of you probably know

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or at least have heard about,

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cannabis can impact the way that we think,

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the types of memory systems we can access

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and what's called convergent and divergent thinking,

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which is one way of conceptualizing

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what is commonly referred to as creativity.

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So today's discussion is going to include

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a lot of information,

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but I promise to make it clear and accessible to all of you,

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regardless of whether or not you have a background

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in biology or not,

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and today's discussion will also be quite nuanced.

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You'll find me routinely reading

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directly from specific research papers,

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something that of course we always do on this podcast,

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but today I'm really going to dig

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into some of the finer points of the methodology in papers

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and some of the statistics that were used

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and the specific populations of people that were studied,

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because as it turns out,

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there are instances that we will discuss

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in which the use of cannabis can be immensely beneficial

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to one group and yet can be entirely detrimental

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to another group, even at equivalent dosages

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and depending on a number of different factors,

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so we will discuss what those factors are.

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Just to give you a brief overview

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of the kind of structure I'm going to put on today's episode,

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we will review of course, cannabis and its various forms.

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I'll talk about some of the biology,

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but we are going to really drill into how dosage,

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that is the concentration of THC relative to CBD,

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impacts whether or not cannabis

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is going to have one effect or another.

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We will also talk about the frequency of use,

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daily use, multiple times per day use,

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weekly use or monthly or occasional use.

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We will also talk about different professions

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and how some people may have a little bit more leeway

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in terms of whether or not they decide to use cannabis

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or any of its various component chemical constituents,

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that is CBD or THC, et cetera.

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And for other professions,

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it might be entirely inappropriate

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because of the particular kinds of cognitive tasks

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those professions demand.

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We will also talk about genetic predisposition,

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again, sex differences, hormone effects,

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and I will also touch on what I think

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is the most important variable

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in determining whether or not cannabis

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is right or wrong for you, and that is your age

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at which you are considering starting

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or continuing use or ceasing use.

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What I can assure you is that by the end of today's podcast,

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you will have a quite thorough understanding of cannabis,

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how it works, what it does,

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what its potential benefits can be,

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what its potential hazards are,

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and whether or not it's right for you

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and the people that you know.

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I'm excited to announce that the Huberman Lab Podcast

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has now launched a premium channel.

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The purpose of the premium channel is severalfold.

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First of all, I will be hosting regular AMAs,

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Ask Me Anythings, where you can ask me anything,

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and I will provide answers in depth

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to your specific questions about science

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and science related tools for mental health,

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physical health and performance.

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Now, there is a nominal cost to the premium channel.

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It's $10 per month, or you can pay $100 for the entire year.

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I should mention, however,

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that a significant portion of the funds

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raised through the premium channel

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are going to support not just the "Huberman Lab Podcast,"

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which we will continue to release every Monday on schedule

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of zero cost to all consumers' content

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on mental health, physical health and performance,

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but proceeds from the premium channel

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will also be used to fund research,

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in particular research done on human beings,

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so not animal models, but on human beings,

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which I think we all agree is a species

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that we are most interested in.

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And, we are going to specifically fund research

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that is aimed toward developing further protocols

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for mental health, physical health and performance,

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and those protocols will be distributed

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through all channels, not just the premium channel,

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but through all channels,

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Huberman Lab Podcast and other media channels.

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Now, an especially exciting feature of the premium channel

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is that the Tiny Foundation has generously offered

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on all funds raised for research

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through the premium channel.

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So this is a terrific way that they're going to amplify

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to further support research for science

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for the Huberman Lab premium channel,

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again, there's a cost of $10 per month

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by going to hubermanlab.com/premium,

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again, that's hubermanlab.com/premium.

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Before diving into all of that, I'd like to highlight a new,

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what I think is a very useful and zero cost resource.

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This resource is what's called Non-Sleep Deep Rest

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or NSDR protocol.

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I've talked many times before on the Huberman Lab Podcast

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about Non-Sleep Deep Rest, AKA, NSDR.

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NSDR is sort of an umbrella term

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for a variety of different practices,

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so these are behavioral practices

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that allow you to direct your brain and body

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into a particular state, and most typically,

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that state is one of deep relaxation,

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but also one in which you can access your bodily

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and brain systems for teaching yourself

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how to relax in real time and how to recover

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some of the sleep that you may not be getting at night,

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and to restore levels of dopamine

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in particular areas of the brain that are involved

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in motivation and cognitive and motor control.

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Basically, NSDR is a wonderfully restorative tool.

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This has been demonstrated many times over now

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through quality peer-reviewed science,

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and there are neurochemical benefits,

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and there are physical benefits,

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and there are certainly psychological benefits.

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I highly recommend NSDR to anybody

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that has trouble falling asleep

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or that wakes up in the middle of the night

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and needs to get better at falling back asleep,

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as well as to anyone out there that has issues

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with anxiety or self-regulation of any kind.

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And if you don't have any of those issues,

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it's also immensely beneficial just as a restorative

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for leaning back into focused work of any kind.

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Now, a number of people have reached out

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about finding NSDR protocols, and there are a number

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of different good ones out there floating around.

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I've decided to put a zero-cost NSDR script

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out there on the internet for people to access,

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so you can find it by going to YouTube

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and simply put my last name, 'Huberman' and 'NSDR'

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into the search function.

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This is a YouTube channel that's hosted by Virtusan,

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which has a terrific app that includes NSDR

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and a number of other health and wellness protocols,

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but they've been quite generous

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in hosting a 10 minute NSDR, read by me.

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This NSDR is distinct from,

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although I should say, similar to yoga nidra,

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which some of you are familiar with.

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This NSDR is different than yoga nidra

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in the sense that it doesn't have intentions.

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There's no mystical component,

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and I describe a little bit of the science

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and why specific components of the NSDR are included,

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things like long exhale breathing,

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I talk about perceptual shifts

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and how to move from thinking and planning

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to pure sensation.

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If none of that makes sense right now,

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it'll make total sense after listening to the NSDR script.

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Again, it's a 10 minute NSDR script, read by me.

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You can do this first thing in the morning when you wake up,

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especially if you didn't get enough sleep that night,

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and you're feeling a little bit fatigued,

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and you need to lean into the day with full vigor.

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or if you wake up in the middle of the night.

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Again, this is a zero-cost resource for you.

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You can find it by going to YouTube,

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put my last name in and NSDR.

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I encourage you to try it, and if you like it

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or frankly, if you don't, you can just put that

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in the comment section there on YouTube,

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and I've put it there as a free resource to you,

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so that you can benefit from the research-backed,

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peer-reviewed studies that point to NSDR

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as a very useful practice.

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Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast

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is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford.

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It is, however, part of my desire and effort

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to bring zero-cost to consumer information

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about science and science-related tools

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to the general public.

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In keeping with that theme,

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I'd like to thank the sponsors of today's podcast.

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and particular macronutrients

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or keep my blood sugar steady.

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It also allowed me to see how working out

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So for me, it was a fascinating experiment unto myself

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as to how my meal schedule, the specific foods I was eating,

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that's levels.link, L-I-N-K, /huberman.

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lipids, et cetera, and then you can look

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to get 20% off and use the code 'huberman' at checkout.

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On many episodes of the Huberman Lab Podcast,

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we talk about supplements.

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While supplements aren't necessary for everybody,

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many people derive tremendous benefit from them,

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things like enhancing sleep and the depth of sleep,

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or for enhancing focus and cognitive ability,

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or for enhancing energy or adjusting hormone levels

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to optimal range for you.

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The Huberman Lab Podcast

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is now partnered with Momentous Supplements.

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We partnered with Momentous

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for a number of important reasons.

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and that was important to us,

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because a number of you reside outside of the United States.

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Now, this turns out to be very important,

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because if you're going to take supplements,

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To find the supplements we discuss

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on the Huberman Lab Podcast,

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you can go to livemomentous spelled O-U-S,

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livemomentous.com/huberman,

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and I should just mention that the library

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of those supplements is constantly expanding.

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Again, that's livemomentous.com/huberman.

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Let's talk about cannabis, and when we refer to cannabis,

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we are indeed referring to marijuana or the marijuana plant.

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Now, cannabis plants come in different strains

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or different varieties, and those different strains

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are indeed different genetic strains.

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So just as animals and humans

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have different genetic backgrounds,

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and they can be crossed to one another

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to yield further genetic variation in the offspring,

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plants can be hybridized to one another

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in various ways through grafting

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or through the use of different types of seed combinations,

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et cetera, in order to generate different strains.

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There are also naturally occurring differences

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in the strains of plants,

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and the cannabis plant is no exception.

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So for instance, in the context

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of the discussion about cannabis

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and its medicinal uses and recreational uses,

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we need to distinguish between the sativa variety,

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the indica variety, a variety called ruderalis

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that's not often discussed,

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and hybrids of sativa, indica and ruderalis.

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Before diving into the different strains of cannabis

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and how they impact the brain embody,

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both similarly and differently,

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I want to emphasize that the cannabis plant

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contains a number of different psychoactive compounds.

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Now, the most powerful of those compounds is THC.

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The technical name for it is delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol.

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But THC, as I'll refer to it,

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is just one of the psychoactive

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and biologically active compounds within cannabis plants.

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There's also CBD, which is technically referred to

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as cannabidiol, and cannabidiol, CBD,

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is known to be used for things like pain management,

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anxiety management and other medicinal purposes.

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We will talk about the efficacy of CBD for those purposes,

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as well as some of, believe it or not,

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some of the dangers of CBD,

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depending on where it's sourced and the dosage, et cetera.

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So we've got THC, CBD and also CBN or cannabinol.

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CBN is less often discussed.

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You're going to hear a lot less

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about CBN containing products out there,

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CBN containing medicines,

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but it is relevant to today's discussion,

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so it will come up a bit.

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Now, I will be sure to provide more specificity

Time: 1049.4

to what I'm about to say, but very broadly speaking,

Time: 1053.125

THC is largely responsible

Time: 1055.67

for the psychoactive effects of cannabis,

Time: 1058.733

that is the changes in mood, the changes in bodily state

Time: 1062.09

and sensation, et cetera.

Time: 1064.7

Whereas CBD and to some extent,

Time: 1067.28

CBN, have profound effects on the brain and body,

Time: 1072.2

but they don't tend to give people the sensation

Time: 1074.42

of altered perception, altered mood, et cetera.

Time: 1078.11

Some people might say they are not the component of cannabis

Time: 1080.685

that, quote unquote, gets you high,

Time: 1083.15

although today, we will really drill into

Time: 1084.68

what the high itself represents

Time: 1086.72

in terms of chemical systems in the brain body.

Time: 1089.39

And what we will soon learn is that

Time: 1092.026

what we think of as being high actually includes

Time: 1095.81

a number of different changes in the brain and body,

Time: 1097.88

some of which can be best explained by CBD,

Time: 1101.03

not by THC, which runs counter

Time: 1103.4

to what most people out there know and believe.

Time: 1106.43

So broadly speaking, we have THC, CBD and CBN.

Time: 1110.9

But I want to point out that the cannabis plant

Time: 1113.18

has over 70, seven-zero,

Time: 1115.122

70 different psychoactive compounds,

Time: 1117.29

many of which still have not been studied

Time: 1120.14

in isolation and in detail.

Time: 1122.18

So there's a big future of research for cannabis

Time: 1124.799

and for THC and THC-related psychoactive compounds,

Time: 1128.36

as well as for CBD and CBN.

Time: 1130.79

Today we're mainly going to focus

Time: 1132.189

on THC and CBD, as I mentioned before.

Time: 1135.65

I should also point out that the cannabis plant

Time: 1137.36

has over 400 biologically active compounds.

Time: 1140.797

So these are biologically active compounds

Time: 1142.715

that may or may not have psychoactive properties,

Time: 1146.69

that may or may not be useful for pain relief, et cetera.

Time: 1149.48

Again, there is a vast landscape for exploration

Time: 1152.81

of the cannabis plant and of hemp for what they include

Time: 1156.285

that could be beneficial to us or detrimental to us,

Time: 1160.04

so again, a lot more work to do.

Time: 1161.84

Today, we're going to really try and stay on target

Time: 1163.91

with what we already know

Time: 1165.77

and where there are certain exciting mysteries

Time: 1167.974

or intriguing mysteries

Time: 1169.49

about what we ought to explore more.

Time: 1171.53

I will certainly highlight those.

Time: 1174.41

Let's go back to the different strains

Time: 1176.09

of the cannabis plant, sativa, indica and ruderalis

Time: 1178.831

and explore how each of those

Time: 1181.67

differentially impacts the brain and body,

Time: 1184.52

because therein I think we can start to learn

Time: 1186.59

a lot about this incredible plant

Time: 1188.6

that is the cannabis plant.

Time: 1190.31

And whether or not you are a user of cannabis

Time: 1193.16

or whether or not you are entirely opposed to cannabis use,

Time: 1196.49

understanding how cannabis works

Time: 1198.5

in the brain and body, itself, is absolutely fascinating

Time: 1201.62

and can teach you a lot about how your brain and body work

Time: 1204.83

at a basic level and can tell you a lot about

Time: 1207.89

how your brain and body will react to different life events

Time: 1210.29

and how your mood is established and stabilized,

Time: 1213.26

and how your appetite is established and stabilized

Time: 1215.896

and so on.

Time: 1217.19

So we have the three major strains of cannabis,

Time: 1219.14

sativa, indica and ruderalis.

Time: 1221.93

And for sake of today's conversation,

Time: 1223.7

we can pretty much cross off ruderalis.

Time: 1226.04

It's not often consumed,

Time: 1228.26

and components of ruderalis are not often consumed

Time: 1232.31

for medicinal or recreational purposes.

Time: 1235.52

Let's focus on sativa and indica.

Time: 1238.88

People will consume the sativa variety of cannabis

Time: 1242.96

either by edible or by smoking cannabis,

Time: 1247.31

or they will consume the indica variety of cannabis,

Time: 1250.04

again by edible or by smoking cannabis,

Time: 1253.4

or sometimes they will take it in a transdermal form

Time: 1256.37

or a sublingual form.

Time: 1258.38

There are a bunch of different ways

Time: 1259.52

to get the cannabis into the body,

Time: 1262.52

but there's a clear distinction between sativa and indica

Time: 1266.33

that actually shows up first in the structure of the plant.

Time: 1269.509

At their extremes, meaning in a pure strain of sativa,

Time: 1274.16

it tends to be a taller plant, a longer stock,

Time: 1276.71

believe it or not,

Time: 1277.67

and actually the length of the leaves is quite a bit longer,

Time: 1280.82

whereas the indica plant tends to be more short and stout.

Time: 1284.558

And, for those aficionados out there,

Time: 1287.9

I'm sure you know a lot of the other specific features

Time: 1289.88

of sativa versus indica,

Time: 1291.32

but already what we're talking about is the same plant,

Time: 1294.38

cannabis, with two very different morphologies or shapes.

Time: 1298.31

You might say, "Well, why is this interesting or important

Time: 1300.087

"to how it affects me or affects other people

Time: 1302.652

"for medicinal or recreational purposes?"

Time: 1304.85

Well, it turns out that even though they are the same plant,

Time: 1307.73

these two different genetic varieties,

Time: 1309.339

because of the way that they grow

Time: 1312.74

and the way they capture sunlight

Time: 1314.33

and the way, believe it or not, that the different plants

Time: 1317.191

within that strain interact with one another,

Time: 1319.82

'cause believe it or not,

Time: 1320.96

plants are interacting with one another,

Time: 1322.97

they actually bring different elements

Time: 1324.92

of the psychoactive compounds to different components

Time: 1327.32

within the leaves and the so-called buds.

Time: 1330.59

The takeaway is that when consumed,

Time: 1332.63

and when I say consumed, I want to be very clear,

Time: 1334.52

I don't necessarily just mean oral consumption

Time: 1337.91

or eating cannabis sativa by edible,

Time: 1342.08

I also mean smoking it, and that could be...

Time: 1345.08

people will, just like with tobacco,

Time: 1347.78

the way that they bring the psychoactive components

Time: 1350.27

into their bloodstream and into their brain and body

Time: 1352.73

is to essentially heat the dried leaves

Time: 1356.3

of the cannabis plant.

Time: 1358.64

Then the heat liberates some of the psychoactive components

Time: 1362.75

that when inhaled into the lungs,

Time: 1364.61

because the lungs include a lot of vasculature,

Time: 1366.89

a lot of basically blood vessels and capillaries,

Time: 1370.43

that the psychoactive components

Time: 1373.73

are actually directly absorbed

Time: 1374.99

from the lungs into the bloodstream,

Time: 1376.49

and they can cross into the bloodstream

Time: 1378.08

and permeate throughout the body

Time: 1380.3

and cross the so-called blood brain barrier.

Time: 1382.28

So in other words, burning the plant liberates the smoke

Time: 1386.84

that contains the psychoactive compounds,

Time: 1389.69

and those are inhaled into the lungs

Time: 1391.55

and then get into the brain and body

Time: 1393.17

and act on the brain and body.

Time: 1394.61

And the major effect of sativa varieties

Time: 1397.25

are to create a high, if you will,

Time: 1399.98

and I'm putting this in air quotes

Time: 1401.03

for those of you that are listening,

Time: 1402.47

but to also act as a stimulant.

Time: 1404.48

The sativa varieties tend to make people

Time: 1406.31

feel invigorated, somewhat alert.

Time: 1409.07

It doesn't tend to be as much of a sedative

Time: 1411.08

as some of the other varieties.

Time: 1412.76

Some people report heightened sense of focus

Time: 1415.19

or heightened sense of creativity.

Time: 1416.72

We'll talk a little bit later on

Time: 1417.92

as to whether or not they actually

Time: 1419.27

are achieving heightened levels of focus and creativity,

Time: 1421.79

or whether or not they just perceive themselves

Time: 1423.5

to have heightened levels of focus and creativity.

Time: 1425.327

The sativa varieties tend to make people

Time: 1427.91

feel a little bit less susceptible

Time: 1430.55

to pain and noxious stimuli,

Time: 1432.8

which are basically stimuli that you don't like.

Time: 1435.95

So the sativa varieties are often prescribed or are used

Time: 1441.12

in the recreational context for pain management and relief.

Time: 1445.22

Basically, the sativa variety is known

Time: 1447.62

to include a head biased effect.

Time: 1450.5

So here, we're talking about subjective effects,

Time: 1452.96

and of course these will vary

Time: 1454.22

from one individual to the next.

Time: 1456.02

Some people will smoke cannabis sativa

Time: 1458.08

or ingest cannabis sativa orally

Time: 1461.18

and will feel an entirely different array of effects,

Time: 1464.45

but most people, the majority of people

Time: 1466.46

experience a head-centered high, alertness, focus

Time: 1470.288

and a sense that they're more creative.

Time: 1473.06

Contrast that with the indica varieties of cannabis,

Time: 1476.33

and when people smoke or eat or ingest indica varieties,

Time: 1480.98

the psychoactive components of indica,

Time: 1483.14

and again, this is pure indica,

Time: 1484.67

so not hybridized with sativa at all, but just pure indica,

Time: 1487.85

tend to lead to more full-bodied effects.

Time: 1491.09

People report feeling more complete, full-body relaxation,

Time: 1495.38

more of a sedative effect.

Time: 1497.6

Indica cannabis is often prescribed

Time: 1500.48

and/or used recreationally

Time: 1502.16

in order to achieve a state of sleep

Time: 1504.89

or to help relieve anxiety, so less of a stimulant effect.

Time: 1509.3

And we will talk about why,

Time: 1511.04

literally, the underlying neural circuits

Time: 1512.538

that lead to the sativa variety causing more

Time: 1516.35

of a elevated mood and a head high, if you will,

Time: 1519.8

and the indica variety as being more full body relaxation.

Time: 1523.04

One of the ways to remember the distinction

Time: 1524.45

between the effects of cannabis sativa and cannabis indica

Time: 1527.6

was relayed to me by a friend who actually was a chronic,

Time: 1530.63

meaning every day, all day, consumer of marijuana.

Time: 1534.83

He basically smoked marijuana for 20 years

Time: 1536.72

before quitting about four or five years ago,

Time: 1539.03

and he said that indica is often referred to

Time: 1542.27

as 'in-da-couch,' meaning laid back in the couch.

Time: 1545.9

And that can help you remember

Time: 1547.61

that the indica varieties of cannabis

Time: 1549.423

do tend to be more sedative in their effects.

Time: 1552.847

Okay, so there's sativa and there's indica,

Time: 1554.57

and then now there are hybrid strains.

Time: 1556.79

So marijuana growers and people who specialize

Time: 1560.24

in creating novel varieties of the cannabis plant,

Time: 1563.469

again, I'm using the words cannabis and marijuana

Time: 1565.82

more or less interchangeably here,

Time: 1568.04

they are very good at creating new strains of plant

Time: 1572.24

that might be 25% sativa and 75% indica or vice versa,

Time: 1577.34

or 50/50 or 90/10.

Time: 1579.548

Essentially, what's happening nowadays

Time: 1581.66

is that through plant biology, plant genetics, I should say,

Time: 1586.37

growers are getting quite efficient

Time: 1589.01

at creating a variety of different strains

Time: 1591.59

of the marijuana plant that give rise to very nuanced

Time: 1595.88

and distinct effects on brain and body.

Time: 1599.09

In fact, so much so, that there's now a new nomenclature,

Time: 1602.69

a new language emerging around cannabis

Time: 1606.56

and the development of novel strains of cannabis

Time: 1608.81

for medicinal and/or recreational purposes.

Time: 1611.81

And while this might sound a little bit medical

Time: 1614.534

or a little bit clinical to some people, believe it or not,

Time: 1618.02

this is the nomenclature that is now typically used.

Time: 1620.54

People still refer to the sativa, indica and hybrid strains,

Time: 1624.292

but there's now also a description

Time: 1626.54

of so-called type one, type two and type three strains

Time: 1631.28

for any given sativa, indica or hybrid strain.

Time: 1634.85

Okay, so just to put this clearly in your mind,

Time: 1637.25

you've got sativa varieties, that is pure sativa varieties.

Time: 1640.49

You have indica varieties, again, pure indica,

Time: 1644.45

and then you have hybrid varieties,

Time: 1646.82

and beneath each of those,

Time: 1648.71

you have type one, type two and type three strains

Time: 1652.699

of indica, sativa or hybrid varieties.

Time: 1658.19

What are type one, type two and type three?

Time: 1661.37

Well, type one, type two and type three strains

Time: 1665.009

are strains that have varying amounts

Time: 1667.79

or ratios of THC to CBD.

Time: 1672.2

So for instance, type one strain,

Time: 1674.84

so for instance, you could have a pure sativa, type one,

Time: 1678.17

or a type one pure sativa or a type one indica.

Time: 1681.829

Those are going to have the greatest amount

Time: 1684.26

of THC relative to CBD.

Time: 1686.57

And I really want to emphasize this,

Time: 1688.28

understanding the ratio of THC to CBD

Time: 1691.058

can help explain a lot or even predict a lot

Time: 1694.43

about how a given strain of cannabis will impact somebody.

Time: 1698.81

For instance, because THC is largely responsible

Time: 1702.558

for the typical psychoactive components of cannabis,

Time: 1707.613

so what I mean here is, if somebody's ingesting sativa,

Time: 1711.38

and it routinely makes them feel more energized,

Time: 1714.65

elevates their mood,

Time: 1716.48

it gives them a heightened sense of creativity,

Time: 1718.31

if that's what they experience,

Time: 1720.35

and they're taking a type one version of that,

Time: 1722.72

that means that it's quite rich in THC and very little CBD.

Time: 1727.241

However, if they were to take a type one version of sativa,

Time: 1731.3

and it feels far too strong, like too much energy,

Time: 1733.61

or they felt like they were too much in their head,

Time: 1735.53

nowadays, there are strains of sativa

Time: 1738.793

that have been genetically engineered,

Time: 1741.59

and I don't mean by an engineer tinkering away

Time: 1743.75

with gene engineering in a CRISPR creating mutes,

Time: 1748.64

but literally by hybridizing,

Time: 1750.05

crossing different plants to one another,

Time: 1752.86

creating in a natural context,

Time: 1755.15

the same way plants in the outside world

Time: 1756.983

would sometimes hybridize to one another,

Time: 1760.79

creating a variety that's perhaps type two,

Time: 1763.61

which is going to have less THC and more CBD,

Time: 1768.503

or a type three, which is going to be very high CBD

Time: 1771.56

and very little THC,

Time: 1773.45

and the same is also true for the indica varieties.

Time: 1776.069

So I want to make sure that everyone understands this,

Time: 1778.22

because it becomes very important

Time: 1779.27

for understanding the biology of cannabis

Time: 1781.55

and predicting positive versus negative effects of cannabis.

Time: 1786.425

Sativa has this stimulant-like effect

Time: 1789.47

and tends to be more of a head high, if you will.

Time: 1791.63

Indica tends to be more full-body,

Time: 1793.28

then lead to more in-da-couch, as I refer to it before,

Time: 1796.923

pun intended, deep relaxation, reduce insomnia, et cetera.

Time: 1801.622

Now, within each of those sativa and indica,

Time: 1803.75

you have type one, type two and type three,

Time: 1805.22

and that has everything to do with how much THC,

Time: 1809.24

which is the dominant psychoactive compound,

Time: 1812.18

versus CBD, which has other effects, mainly on the body,

Time: 1815.99

but not so much on the brain

Time: 1818.36

and modes of thinking and mood, et cetera,

Time: 1820.1

how much THC versus CBD is present.

Time: 1822.23

And again, type one is THC dominant,

Time: 1825.14

type two, equal ratios, if you will, of THC and CBD,

Time: 1828.29

and type three tend to be high CBD.

Time: 1830.858

Okay, so already we've got some categorization here

Time: 1832.76

that hopefully isn't overwhelming to you,

Time: 1834.68

but this turns out to be extremely important

Time: 1837.14

if you want to understand how cannabis works

Time: 1839.166

and predict the effects of cannabis.

Time: 1841.4

I'd like to take a quick break

Time: 1842.78

and acknowledge one of our sponsors, Athletic Greens.

Time: 1845.81

Athletic Greens, now called AG1,

Time: 1847.893

is a vitamin mineral probiotic drink

Time: 1850.67

that covers all of your foundational nutritional needs.

Time: 1853.55

I've been taking Athletic Greens since 2012,

Time: 1856.25

so I'm delighted that they're sponsoring the podcast.

Time: 1858.47

The reason I started taking Athletic Greens,

Time: 1860.06

and the reason I still take Athletic Greens,

Time: 1862.13

once are usually twice a day,

Time: 1864.11

is that it gets to me the probiotics

Time: 1866.03

that I need for gut health.

Time: 1867.71

Our gut is very important.

Time: 1868.82

It's populated by gut microbiota

Time: 1871.37

that communicate with the brain, the immune system,

Time: 1873.14

and basically all the biological systems of our body

Time: 1875.54

to strongly impact our immediate and long-term health,

Time: 1878.751

and those probiotics in Athletic Greens

Time: 1881.03

are optimal and vital for microbiotic health.

Time: 1884.87

In addition, Athletic Greens contains a number

Time: 1886.7

of adaptogens, vitamins and minerals

Time: 1888.35

that make sure that all of my foundational

Time: 1889.937

and nutritional needs are met, and it tastes great.

Time: 1893.69

If you'd like to try Athletic Greens,

Time: 1895.13

you can go to athleticgreens.com/huberman,

Time: 1898.163

and they'll give you five free travel packs

Time: 1900.5

that make it really easy to mix up Athletic Greens

Time: 1902.398

while you're on the road,

Time: 1903.68

in the car, on the plane, et cetera,

Time: 1905.39

and they'll give you a year's supply of vitamin D3 K2.

Time: 1908.81

Again, that's athleticgreens.com/huberman

Time: 1911.48

to get the five free travel packs

Time: 1912.86

and the year's supply of vitamin D3 K2.

Time: 1915.8

Okay, so somewhat surprisingly,

Time: 1917.33

we're going to set aside cannabis.

Time: 1918.71

We're going to take what we know about sativa, indica,

Time: 1921.26

type one, type two, type three, CBD, et cetera,

Time: 1922.947

and we're just going to set that aside for a moment.

Time: 1925.7

Why would we do that?

Time: 1926.533

Well, we have to ask ourselves,

Time: 1928.64

why would any of these plants,

Time: 1930.53

why would any of these compounds, THC, CBD,

Time: 1933.83

sativa, indica, et cetera,

Time: 1935.66

why would any of that have any effect on us at all?

Time: 1939.332

And this discussion that we're about to have

Time: 1941.75

very much resembles the discussion

Time: 1943.82

that we had on a previous episode about nicotine,

Time: 1946.55

because as many of you know,

Time: 1948.05

nicotine is a commonly used substance.

Time: 1950.48

In fact, if we were to look

Time: 1951.44

at the three most commonly used drugs,

Time: 1954.11

alcohol will be at the top of the list.

Time: 1955.64

Many billions of people regularly use alcohol

Time: 1958.55

or occasionally use alcohol.

Time: 1960.77

Many billions of people also use nicotine.

Time: 1964.25

It's the second most consumed drug, so more than 1 billion

Time: 1968.54

and probably closer to 2 billion people consume nicotine,

Time: 1971.12

and then the third most consumed drug

Time: 1973.528

is cannabis in one form or another.

Time: 1976.58

And many of you are probably shouting,

Time: 1978.267

"What about caffeine? What about caffeine?"

Time: 1979.85

Well, in the context of drugs,

Time: 1982.22

and in particular, addictive drugs,

Time: 1983.6

caffeine doesn't quite rise to the list,

Time: 1986.18

but if we were to look at caffeine

Time: 1989.18

and include it in that list,

Time: 1990.83

caffeine would be above all of those.

Time: 1992.63

But the most commonly used drugs are alcohol,

Time: 1994.43

second after that is nicotine and then cannabis.

Time: 1999.56

Nicotine, as some of you may know,

Time: 2001.9

if you listen to the episode on nicotine,

Time: 2003.37

but even if you didn't,

Time: 2005.32

nicotine comes from the tobacco plant,

Time: 2007.72

and there are a few other plants that include nicotine,

Time: 2009.64

and typically it's brought into the brain and body

Time: 2012.148

by smoking tobacco, dipping tobacco,

Time: 2014.29

snuffing tobacco or vaping nicotine.

Time: 2019.39

Nicotine exists in the outside world

Time: 2021.01

in these plants, the tobacco plants,

Time: 2022.84

but the reason it has an effect on the body

Time: 2024.67

is that there are so-called nicotinic receptors in the body.

Time: 2027.7

Now, those nicotinic receptors were named after nicotine,

Time: 2030.37

the compound, but they existed in the brain and body,

Time: 2032.934

not because of the existence of a tobacco plant,

Time: 2036.01

but because there are other chemicals in the body

Time: 2039.13

that naturally occur, namely acetylcholine

Time: 2042.01

that bind the nicotine receptor.

Time: 2045.07

Those chemicals, such as acetylcholine,

Time: 2047.35

that bind the nicotinic receptor in your brain and body

Time: 2049.748

create an enhanced sense of focus, et cetera, et cetera.

Time: 2052.883

But, nicotine from tobacco binds that same receptor,

Time: 2058.631

but with much greater affinity,

Time: 2060.7

and therefore also creates a state of focus,

Time: 2063.61

but a much greater one than we can achieve without nicotine.

Time: 2066.844

So you can see the nicotine episode

Time: 2068.53

if you want to learn more about that.

Time: 2071.16

In a very similar way, all of our brains and bodies,

Time: 2075.58

from the time that we are conceived, believe it or not,

Time: 2078.82

very shortly after conception, if we want to be accurate,

Time: 2081.417

very early conception, when you were in the womb,

Time: 2084.746

and still now, if you're listening to this,

Time: 2087.07

you have what are called cannabinoid receptors,

Time: 2091.84

because you also have endogenous cannabinoids.

Time: 2095.593

What do we mean by that?

Time: 2096.67

You have receptors, which are like little parking spots

Time: 2099.49

that are present on cells in your brain and body,

Time: 2103.36

and what we call a ligand,

Time: 2105.73

which is basically just a chemical that's released,

Time: 2107.62

parks in that receptor

Time: 2109.75

and causes a number of different biological effects.

Time: 2114.58

Cannabis contains compounds

Time: 2117.37

that also bind to those receptors,

Time: 2119.53

but here I want to make a really clear distinction.

Time: 2121.45

We have what are called endogenous ligands,

Time: 2123.7

those just mean chemicals from within us

Time: 2126.28

that we make naturally,

Time: 2127.42

even if we never go near the cannabis plant

Time: 2129.4

or any other source of cannabis,

Time: 2131.17

we have chemicals that are created in us

Time: 2134.23

that park in those receptors and cause biological effects

Time: 2138.34

on mood, on perception, on the immune system,

Time: 2140.35

on hunger, et cetera,

Time: 2141.67

again, without ever going anywhere near cannabis,

Time: 2144.43

we have these endogenous cannabinoids.

Time: 2147.07

So endogenous cannabinoids are floating around in us,

Time: 2149.71

or I should say, they are released in us

Time: 2151.27

in particular ways, bind to these receptors

Time: 2153.1

and cause changes in mood, appetite, et cetera.

Time: 2155.8

They have many different effects on the brain and body,

Time: 2157.127

and we'll talk about those.

Time: 2159.7

But just like with nicotine,

Time: 2161.26

there are substances in the outside world,

Time: 2163.33

in this case, cannabis contains these substances,

Time: 2166.84

so things like THC and like CBD, that when ingested

Time: 2172.66

by smoking or vaping or by ingesting edibles

Time: 2176.226

also will park in those same receptors,

Time: 2180.19

the cannabinoid receptors and lead to biological effects.

Time: 2184.39

Now, it's a little bit misleading,

Time: 2185.62

because we call them cannabinoid receptors

Time: 2187.51

as if they were there to bind cannabis,

Time: 2191.4

or just like we call the nicotine receptors,

Time: 2193.57

nicotinic receptors, it makes it seem as if they were there

Time: 2196.93

in order to bind nicotine from tobacco,

Time: 2200.35

but that's not the way our brains and bodies evolved.

Time: 2202.6

Our brains and bodies evolved for these receptors

Time: 2205.63

to make use of chemicals that exist within us,

Time: 2208.6

called again, endogenous chemicals,

Time: 2211.51

and those endogenous chemicals lead to certain effects,

Time: 2214.24

as I mentioned before.

Time: 2215.47

The key thing here,

Time: 2216.64

if you haven't understood anything I've set up until now,

Time: 2218.741

please understand this, the key thing is

Time: 2222.37

that THC and CBD and the other components of cannabis

Time: 2226.78

bind to those receptors,

Time: 2228.46

those endogenous cannabinoid receptors,

Time: 2230.71

the ones that we naturally make, with much greater affinity

Time: 2234.97

and exert a vastly greater potency and effect

Time: 2238.63

on mood and perception, et cetera,

Time: 2240.85

than do our endogenous cannabinoids.

Time: 2245.47

Another analogy that one could take

Time: 2246.79

in order to understand this

Time: 2248.32

would be hormones, like testosterone and estrogen.

Time: 2251.83

Many people, I would say all people,

Time: 2255.07

make testosterone and estrogen to varying degrees.

Time: 2257.62

It's going to depend on whether or not you're male, female,

Time: 2259.33

your age, whether or not you've gone through puberty,

Time: 2260.86

et cetera, et cetera,

Time: 2262.27

but let's just take testosterone for example.

Time: 2265.39

There's testosterone circulating in your body.

Time: 2268.99

That's true if you're male or female,

Time: 2270.82

and there are receptors called androgen receptors,

Time: 2273.1

we could even call them testosterone receptors.

Time: 2276.1

And the testosterone binds to those receptors

Time: 2278.23

and has effects on cells.

Time: 2279.37

It causes hair growth, changes the voice.

Time: 2281.71

It can affect libido.

Time: 2282.97

It affects all sorts of things in the brain and body,

Time: 2284.68

depending on which organ and tissue you're talking about.

Time: 2287.77

But of course,

Time: 2288.88

there are people that take synthetic testosterone

Time: 2291.1

or derivatives of testosterone,

Time: 2294.04

and some of those derivatives,

Time: 2295.18

for instance, in the body building community

Time: 2296.74

and the sports community,

Time: 2297.64

they will take things like Dianabol.

Time: 2299.32

These are modified versions of testosterone

Time: 2303.19

that can bind to the testosterone receptor

Time: 2306.16

with much greater affinity,

Time: 2308.14

or I should say the androgen receptor

Time: 2309.85

with much greater affinity,

Time: 2311.08

and have supra physiological effects,

Time: 2314.11

effects that would essentially never be seen

Time: 2316.93

from testosterone that was endogenously,

Time: 2321.483

excuse me, endogenously released within the body.

Time: 2325.66

We could say the same thing for estrogen.

Time: 2327.31

There are estrogen receptors, they bind estrogen,

Time: 2331.87

but if someone were to take synthetic estrogen

Time: 2334.3

or to ingest a plant compound

Time: 2335.89

that contains various estrogenic compounds,

Time: 2337.867

and those plants certainly exist out there,

Time: 2340.72

they can have supra physiological effects

Time: 2343.27

on those receptors.

Time: 2344.83

Why am I telling you this?

Time: 2346.12

Well, many people believe that because cannabis,

Time: 2350.08

marijuana is a plant, and plants grow out of the ground,

Time: 2354.13

and they're naturally occurring,

Time: 2356.14

and because we have receptors in our body

Time: 2359.38

that are there without the need to engineer them

Time: 2363.07

from some external source, they're in our genome.

Time: 2366.07

They're program for it, and we're born with these things,

Time: 2367.72

and we keep these our entire life.

Time: 2370.12

Many people mistakenly think, ah, these plant compounds

Time: 2374.56

are safer for us or better for us,

Time: 2376.6

or are somehow appropriate for us to ingest,

Time: 2379.528

but that's simply not true, and here, I'm not saying

Time: 2382.6

that cannabis is always a bad idea for people.

Time: 2384.76

There are certain populations and certain people

Time: 2386.5

for which it can be relatively safe recreationally,

Time: 2389.53

that's the truth, and there are other populations

Time: 2391.51

for which it can be downright dangerous,

Time: 2393.49

recreationally or medicinally.

Time: 2395.92

And of course, there are medicinal purposes

Time: 2397.42

that are being explored, and we'll talk more about that.

Time: 2399.64

But this is vital to understand,

Time: 2401.17

because I think that when we hear,

Time: 2402.527

"Oh, it's from a plant, it's natural,"

Time: 2404.71

and then you also have a receptor for these,

Time: 2406.24

endogenous cannabinoid receptors,

Time: 2408.07

and therefore, the marriage of those two,

Time: 2411.52

the coming together of the chemical THC or CBD or both

Time: 2415.39

with these receptors is somehow supposed to happen

Time: 2418.3

as if this was a purpose of having these receptors,

Time: 2421.48

but it's simply not the case.

Time: 2422.61

In the same way that the nicotinic receptors

Time: 2424.84

are not there because nicotine is good for us,

Time: 2427.39

they're there because there are compounds

Time: 2428.68

that exist within us that are good

Time: 2430.96

to bind to those receptors from time to time.

Time: 2434.2

Now, here's the key thing about,

Time: 2436.27

I guess today, I'm saying there are a lot of key things,

Time: 2437.8

but here's another key thing about understanding cannabis

Time: 2441.07

and the way that it works, which is that THC and CBD,

Time: 2445.78

when they're brought into the brain and body

Time: 2447.64

by smoking or edible, et cetera,

Time: 2452.17

they bind to those receptors,

Time: 2453.97

those endogenous cannabinoid receptors,

Time: 2456.37

and they tap into the same systems

Time: 2458.5

that your endogenous cannabinoids would tap into,

Time: 2461.86

the ones that affect mood and energy

Time: 2463.42

and creativity and relaxation, et cetera,

Time: 2465.91

but they do so with thousand fold greater potency.

Time: 2471.13

And as a consequence of that,

Time: 2473.29

your endogenous cannabinoids are outcompeted.

Time: 2476.86

They really get no opportunity

Time: 2478.63

to interact with those receptors.

Time: 2480.76

And understanding that,

Time: 2482.71

can lead to a very clear understanding of why, for instance,

Time: 2485.62

when people use cannabis to relieve anxiety,

Time: 2488.8

or they use cannabis to enter a certain brain state

Time: 2491.17

for creativity or to enter sleep,

Time: 2493.66

why a dependence on cannabis starts to emerge.

Time: 2497.11

Because if they don't ingest cannabis,

Time: 2499.57

and again, ingest could mean smoke to bring THC in,

Time: 2502.77

or CBD in, or ingest orally or even transdermal

Time: 2506.2

or tincture or one of the other varieties,

Time: 2508.103

if they don't do that, then what happens is

Time: 2511.708

not only are the receptors not stimulated to the same degree

Time: 2515.53

or with the same potency that they normally are,

Time: 2519.1

but the endogenous cannabinoids

Time: 2521.2

can no longer have their effect,

Time: 2522.67

so people experience heightened levels of anxiety,

Time: 2525.19

disrupted mood, disrupted brain state, and so on.

Time: 2529.9

Now, again, I want to be very clear

Time: 2531.94

that I'm not trying to paint a picture of cannabis

Time: 2534.01

as all bad or even partially bad.

Time: 2536.17

What I want to do today is give you

Time: 2537.49

as much information I can as to how cannabis works,

Time: 2541.48

how its different component parts work,

Time: 2543.07

how the different types of cannabis work,

Time: 2544.72

and point to some of the valid medicinal uses

Time: 2548.201

and some of the recreational uses,

Time: 2550.24

and then lay out the landscape for you

Time: 2552.96

as to who is really most at risk

Time: 2554.761

in terms of psychoactive components,

Time: 2558.43

immune components and so on and so forth,

Time: 2560.68

so that you can make the most informed choice for you.

Time: 2562.57

I am not here to tell you what to do or what not to do.

Time: 2565.607

As I like to say, do as you wish,

Time: 2568.829

I mean, don't do as you wish

Time: 2571.27

if it harms other people or yourself,

Time: 2572.5

but do as you wish, but know what you're doing,

Time: 2575.05

so that's really my goal here.

Time: 2576.55

So as we begin to dive further into the biology,

Time: 2578.62

I think you'll start to get a clearer picture

Time: 2579.89

of why cannabis is so effective in some context,

Time: 2583.78

but also why it can create such massive suffering

Time: 2587.77

in other contexts because of the way

Time: 2590.29

that it out-competes your own natural

Time: 2592.27

endogenous cannabinoid systems.

Time: 2594.066

So let's talk about those endogenous cannabinoid systems,

Time: 2596.8

what they are and how they work,

Time: 2598.69

because that will give us a lens

Time: 2600.43

into what the higher potency or maximum impact

Time: 2604.69

of the various cannabis plant varieties and strains

Time: 2606.567

in THC and CBD and so forth, how and why those work.

Time: 2611.02

So what are the endogenous cannabinoids,

Time: 2613.03

these chemical substances that everybody makes?

Time: 2616.87

You make them, I make them.

Time: 2618.43

You've been making them basically

Time: 2620.05

from the time that you were conceived,

Time: 2621.22

and you are going to make them until the time that you die.

Time: 2623.92

Whether or not they have the impact

Time: 2625.54

and the biological functions that I'm about to describe

Time: 2627.67

will depend a lot on whether or not

Time: 2629.59

you are using your own endogenous cannabinoids

Time: 2632.642

to park in those receptors that you also have

Time: 2635.86

from birth until death,

Time: 2637.648

or whether or not you are tickling those receptors

Time: 2641.8

or strongly activating those receptors

Time: 2644.41

using some external source like cannabis and THC, et cetera.

Time: 2651.4

The two main endogenous cannabinoids

Time: 2654.07

that we want to consider are anandamide,

Time: 2656.71

which we will refer to as EAE, so anandamide,

Time: 2660.37

and another one, which is arachidonoyl-glycerol,

Time: 2664.72

arachidonoyl-glycerol, which we will abbreviate 2-AG.

Time: 2668.17

So let's just take EAE and 2-AG, lump them together

Time: 2672.76

and talk about the endogenous cannabinoids,

Time: 2674.8

just to make it simple.

Time: 2675.91

But if you want to do the deep dive on anadamide

Time: 2678.28

versus 2-AG, please be my guest.

Time: 2682.72

The endogenous cannabinoids are released from neurons.

Time: 2686.02

What are neurons? Neurons are nerve cells.

Time: 2688.63

And nerve cells should be conceptualized like this.

Time: 2691.96

You have presynaptic neurons and postsynaptic neurons.

Time: 2694.99

Presynaptic neurons basically contain little vesicles,

Time: 2697.78

little bubbles full of neurotransmitter,

Time: 2700.84

which are chemicals,

Time: 2702.07

and when neurons are stimulated electrically,

Time: 2705.16

and that could be from a thought,

Time: 2706.6

it could be from the desire to move,

Time: 2708.88

it could be because of a drug,

Time: 2710.74

it could be because you're hungry,

Time: 2713.044

the relevant neurons will vomit out or will fuse, as we say,

Time: 2718.3

those little packets, those little bubbles

Time: 2720.64

of neurotransmitter into the gap

Time: 2722.77

between the pre and postsynaptic neuron,

Time: 2723.667

and we call that a synaptic cleft or the synapse.

Time: 2726.58

It's a little gap, a little space,

Time: 2727.93

and the neurotransmitter flows across that synapse,

Time: 2730.81

and some of it will park in the little parking spots

Time: 2733.51

that we call receptors on the postsynaptic neuron side.

Time: 2736.51

Depending on which neurotransmitter it is,

Time: 2738.43

and a bunch of other things not worth going into right now,

Time: 2742.27

the parking of that chemical

Time: 2743.44

and those neurotransmitter receptors

Time: 2744.85

will either cause that neuron on the postsynaptic side

Time: 2748.93

to itself, release neurotransmitter elsewhere,

Time: 2752.39

or it will quiet it down,

Time: 2754.69

so-called excitation and inhibition.

Time: 2756.43

That's kind of neuro transmission in a nutshell.

Time: 2758.59

If you don't understand it, no big deal.

Time: 2760.24

It's not going to prevent you

Time: 2761.17

from understanding today's discussion.

Time: 2762.43

If you understand even a small fraction

Time: 2764.41

of what I've just said,

Time: 2765.79

then it's going to allow you to understand

Time: 2768.7

not just today's discussion, but a lot of neuroscience

Time: 2770.508

with a lot more nuance and depth of understanding.

Time: 2775.21

The key thing to know about the endogenous cannabinoids

Time: 2778.96

is that unlike most neurotransmitters,

Time: 2782.56

they are released from the postsynaptic side.

Time: 2785.74

So what happens is neurotransmitter goes

Time: 2788.23

from presynaptic neuron to postsynaptic neuron,

Time: 2791.17

but under certain conditions,

Time: 2793.03

the postsynaptic neuron, itself, releases a chemical,

Time: 2796.51

and that chemical goes backward, what we call retrogradely,

Time: 2799.037

to the presynaptic neuron, binds to receptors there

Time: 2803.02

and changes the probability that the presynaptic neuron

Time: 2806.182

will release neurotransmitter.

Time: 2809.341

Put simply, endogenous cannabinoids

Time: 2812.5

tend to decrease the probability

Time: 2815.2

that a neuron will release neurotransmitter.

Time: 2819.04

They're a break on the system.

Time: 2820.81

They're a way of shutting down the communication

Time: 2824.05

between neurons, regulating it,

Time: 2826.15

not to make it completely quiet,

Time: 2827.53

but to adjust the levels with a lot of nuance.

Time: 2830.71

Now, the other thing that the endogenous cannabinoids do

Time: 2833.62

is a mind bender, because we're talking about cannabis,

Time: 2837.34

and a commonly known feature

Time: 2839.65

of cannabis and marijuana consumption

Time: 2842.02

is disruptions in short-term memory,

Time: 2844.06

and there is essentially zero debate

Time: 2846.25

as to whether or not that occurs,

Time: 2847.57

and we'll talk about the mechanisms a little bit later.

Time: 2849.82

And yet, endogenous cannabinoids,

Time: 2853.359

the chemicals that you naturally release

Time: 2855.34

from these postsynaptic neurons

Time: 2856.75

that travel retrogradely back to the presynaptic neuron,

Time: 2859.759

actually can lead to strengthening of connections

Time: 2863.86

between the presynaptic neuron and the postsynaptic neuron

Time: 2867.31

through a process called long-term potentiation, or LTP.

Time: 2871.63

They can also cause

Time: 2872.92

what's called depression of communication

Time: 2876.25

between a presynaptic neuron and a postsynaptic neuron.

Time: 2880.3

Long-term depression has nothing to do

Time: 2883.63

with depression as a psychological state or as a illness.

Time: 2888.431

Long-term potentiation and long-term depression

Time: 2891.1

simply refer to the probability

Time: 2892.96

that one neuron will be able

Time: 2894.64

to stimulate and activate another neuron.

Time: 2897.28

And, as I just told you,

Time: 2899.237

the endogenous cannabinoids can either turn up the dial

Time: 2903.25

or turn down the dial.

Time: 2904.45

They can either increase the probability

Time: 2906.37

or decrease the probability

Time: 2908.11

that a given connection between neurons

Time: 2910.6

will function more or will function less.

Time: 2913.36

So if you think about the communication between neurons

Time: 2915.1

as crosstalk, as a conversation,

Time: 2917.89

well, the endogenous cannabinoids can dictate whether or not

Time: 2922

that conversation is likely to occur or not to occur.

Time: 2924.7

Think of them as either putting someone

Time: 2927.4

at the top of your text chain in your phone,

Time: 2929.979

which would be long-term potentiation,

Time: 2932.5

or essentially blocking their number,

Time: 2935.14

which would essentially be long-term depression.

Time: 2938.74

So, if you're getting the impression

Time: 2940.9

that the endogenous cannabinoids

Time: 2942.28

are working in a number of different ways,

Time: 2944.2

and it's not very straightforward, you're right.

Time: 2946.27

In fact, that's the message that I'd like you to take away.

Time: 2948.49

The endogenous cannabinoids

Time: 2950.29

are sometimes increasing neuronal communication.

Time: 2952.45

This can lead to increases in mood

Time: 2954.46

or increases in the likelihood

Time: 2956.38

that someone will talk a certain way

Time: 2958.42

or behave a certain way or feel a certain way.

Time: 2960.523

That can also lead to decreases in synaptic transmission,

Time: 2964.24

that is communication between neurons,

Time: 2965.8

in ways that will make somebody's mood lower,

Time: 2969.19

or will make them less hungry or more hungry.

Time: 2972.4

And, here's the really key thing,

Time: 2975.01

there are two kinds of endogenous cannabinoid receptors,

Time: 2978.28

referred to as CB1 and CB2,

Time: 2980.98

and we can say with confidence that CB1

Time: 2984.67

is highly enriched in the nervous system,

Time: 2986.68

and especially within the brain.

Time: 2988.18

It's found not everywhere,

Time: 2989.53

but almost everywhere in the brain

Time: 2991.12

and elsewhere in the nervous system,

Time: 2992.2

so spinal cord and other aspects of the nervous system.

Time: 2995.98

CB2, the cannabinoid receptor, CB2

Time: 3000.27

is largely located in the tissues of the body,

Time: 3002.55

including the immune system, the liver,

Time: 3004.165

even the genitals, et cetera.

Time: 3007.08

So what this means is that the endogenous cannabinoids

Time: 3009.413

are having these sorts of effects

Time: 3011.4

on neurons that I talked about,

Time: 3012.66

but they are also having effects on immune cells,

Time: 3015.69

on reproductive organs, on liver,

Time: 3017.64

on digestion, on hunger, et cetera,

Time: 3019.71

through mechanisms that are divorced

Time: 3022.05

from the function of the nervous system of neurons.

Time: 3024.93

Now, in reality, no system of the brain and body

Time: 3026.91

is divorced from the nervous system,

Time: 3028.11

because the nervous system is controlling everything.

Time: 3030.36

It is really the master controller,

Time: 3031.68

and everything's feeding back to the nervous system,

Time: 3033.48

so it's a two way street.

Time: 3034.92

But the simple way to think about it is CB1 receptors

Time: 3037.819

are mainly in the nervous system,

Time: 3039.927

and CB2 receptors are mainly in the body

Time: 3042.36

and endogenous cannabinoids, again, EAE, anandamide,

Time: 3047.378

and 2-AG, arachidonoyl-glycerol,

Time: 3050.58

are impacting CB1 and CB2 receptors.

Time: 3053.49

Today we're mainly going to talk about CB1 receptors,

Time: 3055.307

'cause they are the ones that are responsible

Time: 3057.27

for most of the familiar effects of cannabis,

Time: 3059.82

but the key takeaway at this point is to really understand

Time: 3064.29

that the major effects of your endogenous cannabinoids

Time: 3067.74

on these receptors in this particular CB1 are very nuanced.

Time: 3072.24

It depends on context, depends on which neurons.

Time: 3074.28

It's sometimes increasing communication between neurons,

Time: 3077.04

sometimes decreasing it, and then along comes cannabis,

Time: 3081.27

and that cannabis, again,

Time: 3083.07

can arrive by smoking, by vaping, by edible.

Time: 3086.376

And cannabis contains THC and CBD

Time: 3089.758

that potently bind the CB1 receptor,

Time: 3094.74

and now the effects of the CB1 receptor

Time: 3097.62

being occupied by THC or being occupied by CBD,

Time: 3103.199

are not very nuanced.

Time: 3104.88

In fact, they are very predictable

Time: 3107.55

and especially important is to understand

Time: 3110.16

that they are so strong, and they park in that receptor

Time: 3113.28

with such affinity, with such force and precision

Time: 3116.58

and stubbornness and refusal to leave that receptor

Time: 3120.15

that they completely outcompete

Time: 3122.04

the endogenous cannabinoid system.

Time: 3124.14

In fact, they leave the endogenous cannabinoid system

Time: 3126.48

essentially dysfunctional, which, in some cases,

Time: 3130.05

may be a good thing, but in most cases,

Time: 3132.6

is going to lead to problems of various kinds,

Time: 3135.12

and we'll talk about what sorts of problems.

Time: 3136.56

And again, I feel obligated to say,

Time: 3138.511

this is not me saying don't ingest cannabis or THC or CBD.

Time: 3143.25

That's not what I'm saying.

Time: 3144.42

What I'm saying is if you evaluate the potency

Time: 3147.528

that is in technical terms,

Time: 3149.49

it would be the affinity with which these compounds,

Time: 3152.58

THC and CBD and CBN, bind to these endogenous receptors,

Time: 3157.26

that would be like a howitzer gun, like a cannon going off,

Time: 3160.74

as compared to endogenous cannabinoid,

Time: 3164.04

whether or not it's EAE or 2-AG,

Time: 3166.62

which is more like a cap gun level of activation,

Time: 3169.74

at least in this analogy.

Time: 3171

So now you have what at least I would like to think

Time: 3173.096

is a fairly complete understanding

Time: 3175.68

of the different varieties of cannabis,

Time: 3177.81

at least at a broad sweep,

Time: 3179.962

and the different biological effects that they can have,

Time: 3183.12

at least in terms of the major receptors

Time: 3184.92

and in retrograde signaling, et cetera, et cetera.

Time: 3187.98

Now, let's take a step back into the real world

Time: 3190.53

and evaluate or think about

Time: 3192.54

what happens when somebody smokes cannabis

Time: 3195.889

or ingests cannabis by way of edible

Time: 3198.72

or tincture or something of that sort.

Time: 3202.29

Cannabis is very fast to enter the bloodstream.

Time: 3206.472

In fact, within 30 seconds, it's going to enter the brain

Time: 3210.09

and permeate throughout the brain and body.

Time: 3212.37

That's very, very fast.

Time: 3213.75

I mean, when you contrast that

Time: 3214.8

with something like alcohol or even nicotine,

Time: 3217.32

depending on how the nicotine is delivered,

Time: 3219.18

that is a very fast delivery of the psychoactive

Time: 3222.6

and biologically active compound,

Time: 3224.4

which in this case is THC and CBD

Time: 3226.347

and probably some other things as well.

Time: 3228.81

So within 30 seconds,

Time: 3229.95

it reaches the brain and bodily tissues,

Time: 3232.95

and within 30 to 60 minutes,

Time: 3236.19

it's going to reach its peak concentrations

Time: 3238.342

and have its peak biological effects.

Time: 3240.96

Those aren't always the same thing,

Time: 3241.98

but in the case of cannabis,

Time: 3243.42

again here I'm using cannabis as an umbrella term

Time: 3246.259

for THC and CBD, the effects are going to peak

Time: 3248.85

at about 30 to 60 minutes after bringing those compounds

Time: 3252.6

into the body in some way or another.

Time: 3255.06

And the effects tend to last

Time: 3256.41

anywhere from three to four hours,

Time: 3258.03

although there's some variation on that,

Time: 3259.77

depending on individual metabolism,

Time: 3261.9

whether or not somebody is familiar with the compound,

Time: 3266.4

believe it or not, psychologically familiar,

Time: 3267.84

but also biologically familiar,

Time: 3269.52

or whether or not it's a first time use

Time: 3270.84

or occasional use and so on.

Time: 3273.746

THC and CBD and other components of cannabis

Time: 3277.71

are highly what we call lipophilic.

Time: 3279.6

That is, they have an affinity toward,

Time: 3282.39

and they can actually pass through fatty tissues.

Time: 3284.203

Now, every cell in your body, but especially neurons,

Time: 3287.1

have a double layer of fat on their outside.

Time: 3289.917

And of course, when people hear "fat,"

Time: 3291.84

they always think, ooh, fat's bad.

Time: 3294.15

Most of the world seems to want to lose fat or bodily fat.

Time: 3297.06

Here we're talking about the fatty membrane,

Time: 3299.85

the barrier around each tissue,

Time: 3301.65

in this case we're talking particularly about neurons.

Time: 3304.41

And THC and CBD and the other components of cannabis

Time: 3308.79

are highly lipophilic, so they can get into

Time: 3311.04

essentially all cells just simply by flowing into them.

Time: 3313.74

They will also remain in those cells for a long time.

Time: 3317.04

So, I know that a number of people,

Time: 3319.35

depending on whether or not they get tested

Time: 3321.42

for work or for sport or otherwise

Time: 3323.52

for cannabis or CBD and THC,

Time: 3327.24

don't take this as a strict number,

Time: 3329.01

but typically, if one ingests CBD or THC,

Time: 3334.02

smokes cannabis, ingests by orally, et cetera,

Time: 3336.96

doesn't matter, it's going to stay in that fatty tissue

Time: 3339.6

and can be detected for at least as long as 80 days

Time: 3342.99

after ingestion, and there's a whole industry

Time: 3344.85

as to how to accelerate the clearance,

Time: 3347.91

and I should just tell you that just losing bodily fat

Time: 3351.3

isn't going to eliminate it from your system,

Time: 3354.008

maybe partially in those fat cells,

Time: 3356.46

but certainly intravisceral fat and other fatty tissue

Time: 3360.45

that's in around the brain and body

Time: 3362.4

is going to harbor that THC molecule and the CBD molecule

Time: 3366.72

for quite a long while, at least 80 days.

Time: 3369.3

So, if someone smokes cannabis or they ingest cannabis,

Time: 3373.5

it very rapidly gets into the bloodstream,

Time: 3376.44

and the components that are psychoactive

Time: 3378.21

get into the bloodstream

Time: 3379.26

and are immediately able to access neurons and other cells

Time: 3383.61

and start having these effects

Time: 3384.63

of parking at those endogenous cannabinoid receptors

Time: 3387.24

and impacting the signaling between neurons,

Time: 3389.52

which leads to the subjective effects of cannabis,

Time: 3394.02

including THC and CBDs, so let's talk about

Time: 3395.97

what those different subjective effects are.

Time: 3398.55

Again, this is going to vary depending on whether or not

Time: 3400.53

people are ingesting sativa varieties of cannabis,

Time: 3404.307

just to remind you, those tend to be elevated mood,

Time: 3407.55

alertness, talkativeness.

Time: 3409.02

People who take sativa varieties tend to talk a lot more

Time: 3411.75

than they would otherwise.

Time: 3413.43

Again, there are exceptions to this,

Time: 3414.84

of course there are exceptions.

Time: 3416.07

I'm sure there are people out there shouting,

Time: 3417.42

although I guess if you're the quiet people

Time: 3418.65

who don't talk too much, you're probably not shouting,

Time: 3420.32

or if you're not, you're not doing on sativa,

Time: 3422.94

Joe contended, but in any event, there are exceptions,

Time: 3425.97

but there are also general rules.

Time: 3427.77

And the sativas tend to make people's mood elevated,

Time: 3430.11

energetic, again, this sort of head high,

Time: 3433.08

and indica varieties tend to do the opposite.

Time: 3436.53

more of a sedative, relaxant, et cetera.

Time: 3439.92

Why and how would they do that?

Time: 3441.93

Well, without going into an extensive deep dive

Time: 3444.33

into the different neurotransmitter systems

Time: 3445.7

of the brain and body, what we know for sure

Time: 3448.65

is that CB1 receptors are present

Time: 3451.29

on an enormous number of different neurons

Time: 3453.09

in brain structures in neural circuits,

Time: 3455.37

so that the sativa varieties that act as a stimulant,

Time: 3459.78

making people feel happy,

Time: 3462.87

'cause in general, they do tend to elevate mood,

Time: 3465.45

at least at certain dosages, talkative,

Time: 3469.14

tend to make people feel like they have ideas

Time: 3471.96

that are interesting, that they might want to share,

Time: 3474.54

tend to narrow their context, so we tend to increase focus.

Time: 3477.27

This is something that's not often discussed about cannabis,

Time: 3479.46

but especially the sativa varieties

Time: 3481.32

can increase people's level of focus to particular things,

Time: 3484.41

something they're watching or something they're doing

Time: 3486.3

or music, it allows them to narrow their sense of focus.

Time: 3490.26

That's going to occur by activation of CB1 receptors

Time: 3493.44

in the so-called prefrontal cortex,

Time: 3494.94

which is just behind the forehead,

Time: 3496.59

and the prefrontal cortex acts as a strong modulator

Time: 3499.89

of so-called limbic circuitry and other circuitry

Time: 3502.62

that is more stress oriented.

Time: 3504.6

The way to think about the stress and limbic circuitry,

Time: 3507.99

such as the amygdala, which many people have heard about,

Time: 3509.963

is that they aren't really circuits for fear and stress.

Time: 3512.728

They are circuits that are constantly evaluating

Time: 3515.4

one's own internal state, heart rate, et cetera,

Time: 3518.28

and what's happening externally, and, sorry to say,

Time: 3521.79

but the default of those systems is to detect danger,

Time: 3524.85

so threat detection systems.

Time: 3526.38

And then the prefrontal cortex largely acts

Time: 3528.54

as a brake on those systems,

Time: 3530.34

so like the reins pulling back on a steed of horses

Time: 3533.19

that would otherwise just take off.

Time: 3535.5

And so, the sativa varieties tend to increase CB1 activation

Time: 3539.31

in the prefrontal cortex and in other circuitry

Time: 3542.13

that then leads to an overall reduction in stress,

Time: 3545.25

because of the way that prefrontal circuitry

Time: 3546.72

can reduce activation or the amygdala.

Time: 3549.27

Now that, of course, does not explain

Time: 3551.58

why some people become very stressed and very paranoid

Time: 3554.55

when they smoke sativa varieties

Time: 3556.2

or other varieties of cannabis

Time: 3557.97

or ingest other varieties of cannabis.

Time: 3559.65

We'll talk about the paranoid effect and why that occurs

Time: 3562.56

and who might predict that would occur to them

Time: 3565.23

in a little bit.

Time: 3566.76

But I just want to give you a sense of how this is working,

Time: 3568.95

because as I mentioned before,

Time: 3571.35

THC and/or CBD are going to bind that CB1 receptor,

Time: 3574.92

let's say in prefrontal cortex,

Time: 3575.847

the neurons of the prefrontal cortex, it's going to bind there,

Time: 3578.4

and then they'll be a retrograde signaling

Time: 3580.35

back to the presynaptic neuron,

Time: 3581.337

and in the case of prefrontal cortex,

Time: 3583.47

what's happening is it's increasing transmission,

Time: 3586.47

increasing the release of neurotransmitter

Time: 3588.15

in the prefrontal cortex.

Time: 3589.74

However, at the same time,

Time: 3593.07

the very same THC and CBD that was brought into the system

Time: 3596.52

is binding the very same type of receptors, CB1 receptors,

Time: 3600.12

in other brain structures, such as the amygdala

Time: 3603.3

and causing retrograde signaling

Time: 3605.82

back to the presynaptic neurons in the amygdala,

Time: 3609.18

but it's quieting the activation of those neurons,

Time: 3612.886

so this is interesting.

Time: 3614.49

We have the same compounds, THC and/or CBD,

Time: 3618.24

brought into the body and brain,

Time: 3620.91

binding the same receptors, in this case the CB1 receptors,

Time: 3625.23

but depending on where those receptors are located

Time: 3628.47

and which brain areas we're referring to,

Time: 3631.11

they are either causing heightened levels of alertness

Time: 3636.24

and activation of systems that are designed

Time: 3638.58

to make you talkative and alertness and mood, et cetera,

Time: 3641.07

focus, or they're causing suppression of those circuitries.

Time: 3645.72

So we have kind of a seesaw effect here

Time: 3647.73

where the same compound is increasing mood and alertness

Time: 3649.92

and focus in the prefrontal cortex

Time: 3651.27

and is decreasing stress and threat detection

Time: 3654.54

in the amygdala, and that's one of the reasons why,

Time: 3657.42

especially the sativa varieties of cannabis,

Time: 3660.36

allow people to enter these states of focus,

Time: 3662.82

some might even say flow, although I don't want to go

Time: 3665.61

into what flow states really are.

Time: 3667.38

That's for a different discussion,

Time: 3669.21

and it's very poorly defined as it is.

Time: 3672.63

And I certainly don't want to give people the impression

Time: 3674.4

that cannabis increases flow states,

Time: 3676.08

because that's not always the case,

Time: 3678.66

and certainly most often is not going to be the case.

Time: 3681.06

But the idea here is that this molecule comes into our brain

Time: 3684.54

and is shifting everything towards a state of focus,

Time: 3687.72

elevated mood of heightened sense of importance

Time: 3690.96

about whatever it is that we happen to be doing.

Time: 3692.82

And now of course, whatever we could happen to be doing

Time: 3695.43

could be writing a song, writing poetry,

Time: 3699.24

communicating with somebody,

Time: 3700.56

but it could also be something as trivial

Time: 3702.3

as watching cartoons or watching a movie,

Time: 3705.87

which is not trivial in its own right,

Time: 3708.12

but in terms of thinking about the creative aspects

Time: 3710.91

or the creativity stimulating aspects of cannabis,

Time: 3714.24

not productivity oriented.

Time: 3717.03

So narrowed focus, elevated mood,

Time: 3719.07

more relaxed and yet energetic,

Time: 3721.23

that's the major effects of the sativa varieties,

Time: 3724.17

except, and this is a really big boldface,

Time: 3727.05

triple underlined 'except,'

Time: 3728.91

except in some individuals, depending on dosage,

Time: 3732.36

but also depending on preexisting neural circuitry

Time: 3736.41

and propensity for anxiety,

Time: 3738.27

some people ingest or smoke sativa varieties,

Time: 3742.17

and regardless of whether or not it's a type one,

Time: 3743.94

type two or type three variety,

Time: 3745.98

regardless of the ratio between THC and CBD,

Time: 3749.16

people will experience intense anxiety and paranoia.

Time: 3753.93

Now, how do you predict

Time: 3755.64

who will experience intense anxiety and paranoia

Time: 3758.22

and who will experience intense relaxation, focus

Time: 3761.7

and sense of creativity from ingesting

Time: 3764.73

or smoking a type one, type two or type three sativa?

Time: 3767.94

Well, there is no way to predict that,

Time: 3770.55

and there's a lot of what I would call street lore

Time: 3773.01

or dorm room lore or not peer reviewed,

Time: 3777.9

but peer discussed among friends and people

Time: 3782.13

and acquaintances lore out there that what one needs to do

Time: 3785.85

is simply smoke more, or just ingest more.

Time: 3788.64

You hear that, "Oh, well listen, if it makes you paranoid,

Time: 3790.987

"you simply need to use more,"

Time: 3792.36

that is absolutely categorically false.

Time: 3794.85

Everything we know about the way that THC and CBD work

Time: 3798.21

is that they tend to potentiate,

Time: 3800.07

that is increase the effects of these different systems

Time: 3805.53

at given synapses and in different areas

Time: 3807.3

of the brain and body.

Time: 3808.133

That is, if someone experiences paranoia or anxiety

Time: 3812.91

from a given strain of the marijuana plant

Time: 3817.14

or from ingesting an edible in a particular way

Time: 3819.033

or a particular kind of edible,

Time: 3821.7

that person is very likely to experience the same effect

Time: 3824.85

every time they ingest that strain or variety.

Time: 3828.63

This is part of what's led to this enormous industry.

Time: 3832.08

I mean, there are a number of different reasons,

Time: 3833.1

but this is part of what's led to this enormous industry

Time: 3835.26

of highly customized cannabis

Time: 3838.56

where people will spend some time

Time: 3840.27

really seeking out the different strains of cannabis

Time: 3842.73

and hybrids of cannabis that work best for them

Time: 3846.329

and work best for them in particular context.

Time: 3849.69

I wish I could tell you that if you are a person

Time: 3852.84

who is between 5' 7" and 6' tall,

Time: 3856.32

and you have blue eyes or brown eyes,

Time: 3859.44

that the sativa varieties are going to be right for you,

Time: 3861.81

or that sativa varieties are going to give you panic attacks,

Time: 3864.45

I can't do that.

Time: 3865.47

The only way to determine it would be

Time: 3867.18

to actually experience ingesting those or smoking those,

Time: 3870.18

which is certainly also not what I'm suggesting.

Time: 3872.46

That's up to you.

Time: 3873.293

I'm not telling you what to do or what not to do,

Time: 3875.22

but there are no good predictors.

Time: 3876.99

In fact, if you look in the literature,

Time: 3879.96

it is not at all clear that people

Time: 3881.55

who have a heightened level of anxiety

Time: 3884.151

when they do not smoke cannabis

Time: 3887.04

will experience cannabis

Time: 3889.89

as less paranoia inducing or more relaxing.

Time: 3893.25

That's simply not the case.

Time: 3895.23

Now, what we can say for sure

Time: 3897.93

is that general categories of effects,

Time: 3900.81

such as increased focus and reduced anxiety

Time: 3903.63

are largely due to activation of areas

Time: 3905.46

like the prefrontal cortex.

Time: 3906.99

Now, unlike other compounds like nicotine or alcohol

Time: 3910.2

or neurotransmitter systems like dopamine,

Time: 3912.18

when we talk about the cannabinoid system,

Time: 3914.52

and I say effects, biological effects, psychoactive effects,

Time: 3918.99

I want you to keep in mind always,

Time: 3920.91

please, please, please keep in mind

Time: 3922.89

that those effects can be varied

Time: 3925.53

and often opposite in direction,

Time: 3928.71

so let's just give an example of that.

Time: 3930.9

I just mentioned that when people smoke or or eat sativa,

Time: 3934.8

that it tends to lead to one specific set,

Time: 3937.145

or generally leads to one specific set of effects,

Time: 3940.59

heightened focus, mood, et cetera.

Time: 3941.97

Whereas when they ingest or smoke indica and its components,

Time: 3947.34

again, we're still talking about THC and CBD

Time: 3949.89

in varying ratios, but now indica cannabis, and you say,

Time: 3954.457

"Well, why would it improve the transition time to sleep?"

Time: 3958.2

Or at least give people the impression

Time: 3959.52

that it improves the transition time to sleep.

Time: 3961.05

We'll talk about what indica actually does

Time: 3962.61

for sleep in a little bit,

Time: 3964.47

but indica also tends to suppress activation

Time: 3967.22

of the amygdala and threat detection centers in the brain,

Time: 3969.63

again, binding the same CB1 receptors

Time: 3971.61

in those retrograde signaling mechanisms

Time: 3973.719

that I talked about before,

Time: 3975.15

but it also tends to shut down the hippocampus,

Time: 3978.36

an area of the brain associated with memory,

Time: 3981.75

which is why indica varieties lead to pronounced,

Time: 3986.1

or I should say profound defects in short-term memory

Time: 3989.43

and sometimes in long-term memory as well,

Time: 3991.05

if it's consumed over long periods of time.

Time: 3993.93

We'll talk about short, medium and long-term consumption,

Time: 3996.3

occasional consumption going forward.

Time: 3998.04

So what I'd like you to take away

Time: 3999.09

from this component of the discussion is first of all,

Time: 4002.69

the mechanism of action

Time: 4003.95

by which cannabis impacts the brain and body,

Time: 4007.896

but in particular the brain,

Time: 4009.32

is going to be through CB1 receptors,

Time: 4010.607

and those CB1 receptors can lead to either an acceleration

Time: 4014.24

or a brake on particular biological mechanisms.

Time: 4016.73

And there are going to be a constellation

Time: 4019.64

of different accelerations and braking

Time: 4022.01

of different neural systems in the brain and body,

Time: 4025.19

depending on whether or not people ingest sativa

Time: 4027.95

or indica or some hybrid strain.

Time: 4030.084

And perhaps most importantly,

Time: 4031.91

even if you didn't understand anything

Time: 4032.743

that I've said about the biology

Time: 4034.49

of these different strains in the receptors,

Time: 4036.44

please do understand that there is no way to predict

Time: 4040.4

what the effect of a given strain will be on an individual.

Time: 4044.39

There has been extensive exploration

Time: 4046.76

as to whether or not people who are so called mellower

Time: 4049.37

or more anxious or any number

Time: 4052.31

of different personality dimensions

Time: 4054.68

will respond in one way or the other,

Time: 4056.15

but, in fact, there is no way to tell.

Time: 4058.61

Layer on top of that the fact that dosing THC and CBD

Time: 4063.26

can be fairly straightforward in the form of edibles,

Time: 4066.35

because there can be, at least if it's a controlled source,

Time: 4069.934

a defined number of milligrams of THC,

Time: 4073.58

a defined number of milligrams of CBD.

Time: 4076.01

That's true for ingestibles.

Time: 4077.96

It's much harder to gauge that

Time: 4080.18

from the smokeable forms of cannabis,

Time: 4082.58

especially if those smokeable forms of cannabis

Time: 4084.226

are obtained through sources

Time: 4085.73

where there isn't a lot of clear information

Time: 4088.19

about the total amount of THC in that product.

Time: 4091.28

Now, this is all changing quite a lot nowadays

Time: 4093.32

because of the commercialization of of THC and CBD products

Time: 4097.55

and cannabis in a number of different areas,

Time: 4099.53

including in the United States.

Time: 4101.27

But still, many people are ingesting cannabis,

Time: 4104.24

THC, CBD through sources where they don't really know

Time: 4106.22

how much they're bringing into their system.

Time: 4108.107

And so, whether or not someone

Time: 4110.18

gets incredible anxiety relief, enhanced sense of mood

Time: 4114.08

and focus and wellbeing, pain relief, et cetera,

Time: 4117.11

or whether or not they have full blown panic attacks,

Time: 4119.69

et cetera, is very hard to predict

Time: 4122.96

based on dosage information alone.

Time: 4125.24

Now, of course, we can create broad categories,

Time: 4127.73

and we are going to talk about studies

Time: 4128.93

that create broad categories of low dose, moderate dose,

Time: 4131.57

and high dose. frequent use and infrequent use,

Time: 4134.96

but unlike alcohol, unlike nicotine,

Time: 4137.78

we can't really point to specificity of X amount of alcohol,

Time: 4143.45

grams of alcohol per week, which is safe,

Time: 4145.34

or X amount of alcohol, which is not safe.

Time: 4147.74

And so I know a lot of people out there are wondering,

Time: 4150.26

how often can they smoke cannabis,

Time: 4153.29

or how often can they eat cannabis or THC or CBD

Time: 4156.89

in any number of its different forms and products, safely?

Time: 4161.24

Well, we have to really define what 'safely' means,

Time: 4163.79

and we have to really acknowledge

Time: 4165.26

that there's a pretty loose set of controls

Time: 4169.46

over what one is bringing into their brain and body

Time: 4172.55

as they ingest THC and CBD,

Time: 4175.22

but even under conditions in which it's very controlled,

Time: 4178.49

it's very hard to predict what those effects will be.

Time: 4181.07

So before moving into specifics

Time: 4183.26

of taking cannabis or not taking cannabis,

Time: 4185.9

who should, who shouldn't,

Time: 4186.8

what the medicinal purposes are

Time: 4189.317

and what some of the newer, exciting data point to,

Time: 4192.62

I just briefly want to make a list,

Time: 4193.94

and I promise very briefly, I know I'm not often concise,

Time: 4196.7

but I do try to be thorough for your sake.

Time: 4199.43

I want to make a very brief list of the different brain areas

Time: 4203.36

that are impacted by THC and CBD

Time: 4206.6

and why THC and CBD have the various effects they do.

Time: 4212.93

When somebody smokes or ingests cannabis,

Time: 4217.37

doesn't matter what the THC or CBD ratio is,

Time: 4222.44

if they experience deficits in memory,

Time: 4226.76

and that's almost always present, that's going to be

Time: 4230.54

because of reductions in electrical activity

Time: 4232.91

within this brain region we call the hippocampus.

Time: 4235.43

Hippocampus means seahorse. It's shaped like a seahorse.

Time: 4237.62

Anatomists like to name things after what things look like,

Time: 4240.44

but hippocampus memory, memory is reduced,

Time: 4243.47

in particular short-term memory.

Time: 4245.03

That's true regardless of whether or not

Time: 4246.86

one is using sativa indica or some hybrid.

Time: 4252.246

In general, the prefrontal cortex is going to be activated

Time: 4257.33

by the sativa varieties, which is going to increase thinking

Time: 4260.09

and narrowly constrain focus to some activity,

Time: 4264.29

and that's more commonly associated

Time: 4265.73

with the sativa varieties.

Time: 4267.08

The indica varieties, as I mentioned before,

Time: 4269.21

tend to lead to a suppression of activity

Time: 4271.22

in prefrontal cortex, believe it or not,

Time: 4273.47

and turn off thinking and planning.

Time: 4275.66

This is why indica varieties are often used

Time: 4278.54

for relaxation and for promoting sleep.

Time: 4283.61

Regardless of whether or not sativa or indica variety,

Time: 4287.39

and again, regardless of the ratio of THC to CBD,

Time: 4290.78

there is a general suppression of neural circuits

Time: 4293.78

within the so-called basal ganglia and cerebellum.

Time: 4296

Basal ganglia and cerebellum are areas of the brain

Time: 4298.139

that are involved in action planning and withholding action,

Time: 4301.19

so that would be the basal ganglia,

Time: 4302.33

so-called go, no go circuitry,

Time: 4304.88

and the cerebellum, which is involved in balance,

Time: 4307.43

but also motor planning and motor sequencing.

Time: 4311.24

This is why people who smoke marijuana,

Time: 4315.265

regardless of the strain,

Time: 4317.09

will tend to be less physically mobile.

Time: 4320.06

Other common effects are reddening of the eyes,

Time: 4322.55

dryness of the mouth,

Time: 4323.48

that's actually caused by the same general mechanism,

Time: 4326.33

which is a reduction in the secretion of saliva

Time: 4329.36

and of tears and lubrication of the eyes

Time: 4332.45

from the lacrimal glands of the eyes

Time: 4334.22

because of the presence of largely CB2,

Time: 4337.82

but also CB1 receptors in the mouth and on the eyes.

Time: 4341.42

And there tends to be,

Time: 4343.37

especially with certain strains of cannabis,

Time: 4346.07

increase in appetite, so-called munchies,

Time: 4348.86

and that has everything to do with very, very high density

Time: 4353.45

of CB1 receptors in the hypothalamus,

Time: 4355.64

and in particular areas of the hypothalamus,

Time: 4357.38

like the arcuate nucleus of the hypothalamus,

Time: 4359.498

other areas as well, of course,

Time: 4361.67

that have tons of CB1 receptors, bind THC and CBD

Time: 4366.44

and activate the neurons that strongly stimulate appetite

Time: 4369.8

through two mechanisms, one is a cognitive mechanism

Time: 4373.61

of creating a preoccupation with food

Time: 4375.86

in anticipation of taste,

Time: 4378.02

as well as the experience of taste.

Time: 4379.91

So the narrowing of focus to what you want to go eat.

Time: 4384.017

You really crave, I dunno, pizza.

Time: 4386.9

It seems to be high fat, high carbohydrate foods,

Time: 4388.7

but really crave pizza and narrowing of focus,

Time: 4393.55

so that you're not thinking about anything else,

Time: 4395.21

but also signaling from the hypothalamus to the gut

Time: 4398.557

to neurons within the stomach, itself,

Time: 4401.36

that regulate blood sugar,

Time: 4403.07

so there are strong effects on blood sugar of THC and CBD

Time: 4407.87

that generally lead to increases in appetite,

Time: 4410

so two parallel mechanisms, one within the brain,

Time: 4412.73

one within the body, increasing appetite,

Time: 4414.92

so there's an array of different effects.

Time: 4416.567

And as I mentioned before, CB1 receptors are present

Time: 4420.02

all over the nervous system in the brain, the spinal cord.

Time: 4422.24

In fact, the presence of CB1 receptors in the spinal cord

Time: 4424.97

largely explains the fact that THC and CBD, to some extent,

Time: 4429.11

although it's not very well studied,

Time: 4430.37

can provide some pain relief.

Time: 4432.47

I say some, because a lot of people perceive

Time: 4435.411

or believe that they experience more pain relief

Time: 4438.53

from cannabis than they actually do.

Time: 4440.72

It actually has a lot to do with a perceptual shift

Time: 4443.3

to basically focusing on other things,

Time: 4444.95

but there does seem to be some antinociceptive,

Time: 4448.4

meaning anti pain effects of cannabis, THC in particular,

Time: 4453.02

and that is exerted largely through effects on CB1 receptors

Time: 4457.063

in neurons of the spinal cord.

Time: 4459.74

So a broad array of effects are taking place,

Time: 4461.99

regardless of what strain you take

Time: 4463.37

and whether or not you eat the cannabis

Time: 4465.53

or you smoke the cannabis.

Time: 4467

And the broad array of effects can be explained by the fact

Time: 4470.03

that that retrograde signaling can lead to activation

Time: 4472.28

or suppression of activity in various neurons.

Time: 4474.95

So now I'd like to take a step back

Time: 4476.57

from the biology of cannabis and THC and CBD

Time: 4479.09

and all the signaling and receptors, et cetera,

Time: 4481.1

and really just focus on cannabis use,

Time: 4484.16

and wherever possible,

Time: 4485.33

I will point to the specific strains that have been studied

Time: 4488.358

and the ratios of THC to CBD,

Time: 4491.24

but I have to say that unfortunately,

Time: 4494.3

most studies of marijuana, of cannabis,

Time: 4497.51

while they have been very careful

Time: 4499.85

to detail the amount of THC,

Time: 4502.49

low dose, medium dose, or high dose,

Time: 4503.99

and actually getting very specific,

Time: 4505.1

right down to the number of milligrams

Time: 4506.39

or even how much circulating THC is present

Time: 4508.34

after somebody smokes a joint or ingests cannabis,

Time: 4513.41

most studies have not distinguished

Time: 4515.99

between sativa and indica strains.

Time: 4519.92

And that's unfortunate, because in the real world,

Time: 4522.2

people are distinguishing between sativa and indica strains

Time: 4525.47

in their patterns of use and what they prefer

Time: 4527.3

and what they don't prefer,

Time: 4528.133

or even what they prefer to smoke during the day

Time: 4530.33

or ingest during the day versus night.

Time: 4531.68

Believe it or not, there are people

Time: 4532.52

who are using certain strains during the day

Time: 4534.89

and other strains at night,

Time: 4537.32

but the science is yet to catch up to that,

Time: 4539.69

or I should say, more accurately,

Time: 4542.81

the general public and the themes that are emerging

Time: 4545.42

and the practices that are emerging around cannabis,

Time: 4548

especially in states where it's decriminalized or legalized,

Time: 4551.27

are occurring at such a rapid rate

Time: 4552.65

that there's absolutely no way

Time: 4553.82

that the science could keep up.

Time: 4555.14

This is a naturally occurring experiment,

Time: 4557.24

not to say that it's natural, like people should do it,

Time: 4559.13

but it's an experiment that's happening in real time

Time: 4561.2

in the real world, much faster than controlled studies

Time: 4565.1

within university laboratories

Time: 4566.39

and other laboratories can keep up.

Time: 4567.98

So at this point, I think it's appropriate to ask ourselves,

Time: 4570.71

why do people even use cannabis?

Time: 4572.96

What are they trying to achieve?

Time: 4574.1

Is it always about not feeling pain?

Time: 4576.44

Is it always about reducing anxiety?

Time: 4578.39

Well, sometimes it is,

Time: 4579.32

but oftentimes people are using cannabis

Time: 4581.54

in order to achieve a particular state.

Time: 4583.88

And we could use a broad brush and say,

Time: 4585.897

"Well, they just like being high,"

Time: 4587.96

but while that may be true in a lot of circumstances,

Time: 4591.56

and I have to believe it actually is true

Time: 4593.33

in a lot of circumstances,

Time: 4595.46

there are a lot of people who use cannabis

Time: 4597.92

in a very directed way, or they get, quote unquote, high,

Time: 4601.19

in order to achieve states

Time: 4603.05

that to them are particularly attractive,

Time: 4605.3

and one such state is a state of creativity.

Time: 4609.047

And this brings us to a broader theme,

Time: 4611.09

which is, does cannabis increase creativity?

Time: 4614.39

And if so, is it the THC, the CBD,

Time: 4616.76

what's the appropriate ratio

Time: 4618.11

or the best ratio for accessing creativity?

Time: 4620.93

This is an interesting and important discussion, I believe,

Time: 4622.88

because creativity is one of the more sought after

Time: 4625.91

and more elusive states that humans can experience.

Time: 4628.85

And yet, if you look at human evolution,

Time: 4631.22

you look at our progression

Time: 4632.99

in terms of technology development

Time: 4634.73

and culture and music and poetry, et cetera,

Time: 4638.759

we really can look to creativity as the state

Time: 4641.72

that fostered so much of that evolution.

Time: 4644.6

So whether or not you're into technology,

Time: 4646.49

or you're into art or music,

Time: 4648.23

whether or not you're just somebody

Time: 4649.46

who wants to expand their understanding

Time: 4651.83

or their experience of life in some way,

Time: 4653.75

creativity is a fundamentally important state

Time: 4657.2

to try and access and to try and access regularly

Time: 4659.48

and to try and tap into,

Time: 4660.77

in order to eventually produce something,

Time: 4663.35

in order to create something of meaning

Time: 4665

that exists not just in that creative state,

Time: 4667.07

but to yourself after that creative state has gone away,

Time: 4671

so the painting that you paint in the creative state

Time: 4672.92

hopefully is a painting that still inspires

Time: 4674.65

and has impact after you exit that creative state

Time: 4677.968

and that will inspire others, and this could be true

Time: 4680.51

for any number of different things, not just painting.

Time: 4683.27

So does cannabis increase creativity?

Time: 4686.12

The short answer is, it depends.

Time: 4688.46

First of all, we need to define creativity.

Time: 4690.68

Here we are, thinking as scientists,

Time: 4692.81

if not already scientists,

Time: 4694.61

and there are basically two modes of thinking

Time: 4697.37

that are associated with creativity,

Time: 4698.75

and they don't completely explain creativity.

Time: 4701.45

But if you look in the research,

Time: 4702.77

the psychology research and the neuroscience research,

Time: 4705.35

you'll hear about convergent thinking

Time: 4708.44

and divergent thinking.

Time: 4710.9

Convergent thinking is taking loose ideas

Time: 4714.41

and kind of braiding them together,

Time: 4716.72

finding a common thread, synthesizing,

Time: 4719.84

and organizing those different ideas

Time: 4721.94

into some common or specific framework

Time: 4725.24

in order to get or create some specific outcome.

Time: 4729.17

So convergent thinking is basically the person in the room

Time: 4733.37

who's listening to all the ideas and taking them all in.

Time: 4736.91

Maybe it's a panel of, how should we

Time: 4740.953

get a certain product out to market?

Time: 4743.03

Or what are the different motifs

Time: 4746.12

that we should include in a piece of music?

Time: 4747.86

Or what should we do

Time: 4750.26

in terms of rearchitecting a given physical space?

Time: 4754.13

Taking in those different opinions,

Time: 4755.63

those different ideas from different people,

Time: 4757.55

and then synthesizing them and coming up

Time: 4760.07

with one or a small subset of coherent ideas

Time: 4763.49

that incorporate some or all of the ones that they heard,

Time: 4766.34

so that's convergent thinking.

Time: 4767.39

It doesn't have to involve a panel of people talking to you.

Time: 4770.554

I use that as an example

Time: 4772.79

of what goes on inside your own head

Time: 4774.53

when you are engaging in convergent thinking.

Time: 4776.24

You're thinking, well, so and so said this,

Time: 4778.76

and I think that, and you're braiding them through

Time: 4780.71

and trying to get some common themes,

Time: 4783.29

some common vector to emerge from that.

Time: 4785.99

Divergent thinking, on the other hand,

Time: 4788.36

is best described as brainstorming.

Time: 4790.46

It's exploring ideas and continuing to move

Time: 4793.16

into the variation and the vastness of ideas

Time: 4796.88

in hopes of eventually being able to converge

Time: 4799.04

on some novel idea or framework.

Time: 4801.306

So these are similar and related,

Time: 4803.12

but typically the creativity process

Time: 4805.01

involves first brainstorming and divergent thinking,

Time: 4809

and then in order to arrive at something,

Time: 4811.28

to actually create something, the verb 'create,'

Time: 4813.95

not just thinking about what you might create,

Time: 4817.13

which occurs during divergent thinking,

Time: 4818.42

but actually creating something, a specific painting,

Time: 4821.24

a specific song, a specific body of literature,

Time: 4825.5

a specific scientific project or experiment and so on,

Time: 4829.76

that usually involves convergent thinking.

Time: 4832.97

Now these can be explored in the laboratory,

Time: 4835.64

and they can be explored in the laboratories

Time: 4837.29

through sets of different types of questionnaires

Time: 4839.27

or even tasks that you can give human subjects,

Time: 4841.22

and this has been done extensively

Time: 4843.32

and across the entire body of data,

Time: 4847.1

and by that I mean, literally hundreds of studies

Time: 4849.77

that have explored the relationship

Time: 4850.94

between particular neuro circuits and neurochemicals,

Time: 4853.16

convergent and divergent thinking.

Time: 4855.77

We can arrive at a principle,

Time: 4857.6

and the principle involves a molecule

Time: 4861.17

that many of you have heard about before, which is dopamine.

Time: 4863.289

Dopamine is a neuromodulator.

Time: 4864.53

It's involved in motivation,

Time: 4866.21

and it tends to direct our attention

Time: 4867.5

to things outside of us, but it's also closely related

Time: 4870.98

to convergent thinking and divergent thinking

Time: 4873.38

and to the creative process.

Time: 4875.12

And therefore, it should come as no surprise

Time: 4877.273

that diseases of the nervous system, excuse me,

Time: 4881.06

such as bipolar disorder,

Time: 4883.13

which we've done in episode all about bipolar disorder

Time: 4885.83

or schizophrenia or mood disorders

Time: 4889.76

that impact the levels of dopamine,

Time: 4891.8

either make it way, way too high or way, way too low,

Time: 4895.88

strongly impact whether or not people will be creative.

Time: 4898.55

And I think the short takeaway that makes the most sense

Time: 4901.25

in terms of framing this,

Time: 4902.63

and we covered this on the episode on bipolar disorder,

Time: 4905.39

sometimes called bipolar depression, is that in professions

Time: 4908.78

where there's a lot of creativity required

Time: 4910.88

in order to succeed, so again, musicians, composers,

Time: 4913.58

artists, et cetera, you tend to find more manic depression,

Time: 4917.93

and manic depression,

Time: 4919.49

at least in the manic states, the hyperactive states,

Time: 4922.64

are correlated with elevated levels of dopamine.

Time: 4926.51

Likewise, it has been seen over and over throughout history

Time: 4930.315

that individuals that have mild forms of schizophrenia,

Time: 4933.53

or even full-blown schizophrenia,

Time: 4935.69

many famous painters for instance, or musicians,

Time: 4938.96

they are known to have elevated levels of dopamine,

Time: 4941.63

and they are quite creative.

Time: 4942.77

Now, that doesn't mean everybody who's creative

Time: 4944.54

has elevated levels of dopamine,

Time: 4946.31

although it's likely that their levels of dopamine

Time: 4948.53

are at least not diminished,

Time: 4949.67

and it doesn't mean that non-creative people

Time: 4951.47

have low levels of dopamine,

Time: 4952.58

so don't get carried away with the interpretation here.

Time: 4954.83

But the point is this,

Time: 4956.494

dopamine levels strongly relate to the probability

Time: 4961.13

that you can engage in convergent and divergent thinking,

Time: 4964.01

and they do so in the following way.

Time: 4965.87

When dopamine levels are high,

Time: 4969.05

divergent thinking is more likely.

Time: 4971.18

That is, when people have a lot of dopamine

Time: 4973.31

circulating in their system,

Time: 4974.93

they tend to be very expansive with their ideas,

Time: 4977.51

they tend to brainstorm a lot,

Time: 4978.71

they tend to be comfortable and even want to,

Time: 4982.55

or reflexively throw out a lot of ideas

Time: 4985.06

so that sometimes even seem a little disconnected.

Time: 4987.89

Some people might think of this

Time: 4989.18

as attention deficit, but it's not.

Time: 4991.55

It's really the idea of throwing out disparate ideas.

Time: 4996.56

You hear sometimes, you throw things against the wall

Time: 4998.57

and see what sticks, that's a obviously an analogy,

Time: 5001.99

but people are throwing lots of things against the wall

Time: 5005.17

and seeing what stick,

Time: 5006.28

and then seeing how the things that stick fit together,

Time: 5008.53

that's divergent thinking, and elevations in dopamine

Time: 5011.65

tend to increase divergent thinking.

Time: 5014.08

However, they tend to do this in an inverted U-shape way.

Time: 5018.7

For those of you either watching on YouTube,

Time: 5019.9

I'm just drawing a hump, obviously,

Time: 5022.36

and for those of you listening,

Time: 5023.65

just imagine a U, the shape of a letter U,

Time: 5026.92

and then just flip it upside down, so it looks like a bump.

Time: 5029.388

Turns out that when dopamine levels are very low,

Time: 5031.69

there's a low probability of divergent thinking.

Time: 5033.85

When dopamine levels are high, as I mentioned before,

Time: 5036.13

there's a high level or probability of divergent thinking.

Time: 5039.19

But when dopamine levels go very, very high,

Time: 5042.52

then there's again, a reduction in divergent thinking.

Time: 5045.52

In other words, there's a sweet spot

Time: 5047.89

of elevated dopamine for divergent thinking.

Time: 5050.35

And again, divergent thinking

Time: 5052.09

is critical for the creativity process,

Time: 5054.55

because creativity by definition

Time: 5056.65

is taking a novel set of ideas

Time: 5059.23

and arranging them in a particular way,

Time: 5061.24

or taking existing ideas and arranging them in a novel way

Time: 5065.2

that then you eventually converge

Time: 5066.82

on some new product, new idea, new song, et cetera.

Time: 5070.78

Now, convergent thinking follows a very different pattern.

Time: 5074.572

When dopamine levels are high,

Time: 5076.54

convergent thinking is not very likely.

Time: 5079.6

And when dopamine levels are low,

Time: 5081.37

convergent thinking is very likely.

Time: 5083.11

So here, using arguably a very reductionist view,

Time: 5087.07

we're looking at all of this thing we're calling creativity

Time: 5089.41

through a very neurosciencey reductionist lens,

Time: 5091.72

we can say this.

Time: 5093.55

The creative process involves going into a state

Time: 5095.53

where you're willing to consider a lot of options,

Time: 5098.2

many of which seem distantly

Time: 5099.97

or not even connected to one another,

Time: 5101.68

and dopamine facilitates that divergent thinking state

Time: 5105.01

in which you are perfectly happy

Time: 5106.48

and in fact, experience a joy, or elation, a comfort

Time: 5112.21

and a pleasure in organizing all these different ideas

Time: 5115.45

that to anyone else might seem not that related.

Time: 5119.17

But when your dopamine levels are elevated,

Time: 5120.937

these all seem like great ideas

Time: 5122.257

and that maybe there are connections there.

Time: 5124.39

You're not accepting all of them as true and valid

Time: 5126.46

and interesting in combining them, but there's this idea

Time: 5129.67

that it's worth entertaining the possibility,

Time: 5132.7

at least for moments.

Time: 5134.44

And then, as dopamine levels drop,

Time: 5138.07

there is the process of convergent thinking,

Time: 5139.84

which is taking options down off the wall saying,

Time: 5143.087

"No, no, that doesn't fit with that,

Time: 5144.83

"that doesn't fit with that,

Time: 5146.027

"but ah, that fits with that, and that can work.

Time: 5148.337

"That feels right or sounds right or looks right."

Time: 5152.26

That's the creativity process.

Time: 5154.027

And so, I think this is not just important

Time: 5156.88

for understanding cannabis,

Time: 5158.32

which we'll get back to in a moment,

Time: 5159.73

but it's important for understanding creativity

Time: 5162.1

and brain states in general.

Time: 5163.87

Brain states are not, as we would say,

Time: 5165.73

a square wave function.

Time: 5166.63

You don't just drop into a trench of creativity.

Time: 5168.7

Creativity is not an event, it's a process.

Time: 5171.392

And what I'm telling you is that it's a process

Time: 5173.743

that involves divergent thinking

Time: 5175.42

and consideration of a lot of different ideas.

Time: 5177.13

That's correlated with high but not too high dopamine.

Time: 5180.94

And then, one has to transition into a state

Time: 5184.342

of convergent thinking, which is really honing in

Time: 5187.42

on the ideas that seem to have validity

Time: 5189.79

or that could have validity

Time: 5191.08

and getting rid of everything else,

Time: 5192.4

and that's associated with low dopamine.

Time: 5194.5

It's more about logical implementation and consideration

Time: 5197.71

as opposed to thinking about and considering everything.

Time: 5200.92

So let's now return to the question

Time: 5202.39

of whether or not cannabis

Time: 5203.89

and its different components increase creativity.

Time: 5208.21

And when you look at the literature on this,

Time: 5210.25

you find studies that very clearly point to a yes,

Time: 5213.88

it increases creativity, and it's not surprising,

Time: 5216.76

therefore, that cannabis can increase dopamine transmission,

Time: 5220.99

that is dopamine levels, in certain brain areas,

Time: 5223.39

in particular brain areas involved in thinking and planning.

Time: 5227.05

So cannabis increases dopamine in these areas.

Time: 5229.45

Elevated dopamine increases divergent thinking,

Time: 5232

and divergent thinking is associated with creativity,

Time: 5234.34

and there are studies that support the idea

Time: 5236.38

that cannabis can increase creativity.

Time: 5240.28

However, there are at least as many studies

Time: 5243.73

that say that cannabis does not increase creativity,

Time: 5246.76

that cannabis increases consideration of multiple ideas,

Time: 5250.12

perhaps through elevation of dopamine and related systems,

Time: 5253.87

but that ultimately the ideas that converge from that

Time: 5256.9

are not truly creative ideas,

Time: 5258.37

at least they don't meet the criteria

Time: 5259.72

for creative brainstorming

Time: 5261.34

and extraction of ideas that are truly novel,

Time: 5264.13

so it doesn't increase creativity, so which one is it?

Time: 5268.06

Well, fortunately,

Time: 5268.893

there's an entirely distinct set of literature

Time: 5271.51

that has taken all the other literature into consideration,

Time: 5274.75

and here's where we arrive.

Time: 5276.34

So there's a really nice study

Time: 5277.6

that explored creativity in cannabis users,

Time: 5280.6

and we will provide a link to this study.

Time: 5282.337

First author is Emily LaFrance,

Time: 5284.56

and the title of the paper,

Time: 5286.93

somewhat amusing in its own right,

Time: 5288.76

which is, it starts with a question,

Time: 5290.8

inspired by Mary Jane, of course,

Time: 5292.6

Mary Jane being one of the old school versions

Time: 5294.976

or ways of talking about cannabis or marijuana.

Time: 5298.42

Nowadays, people refer to it mainly as pot,

Time: 5300.64

as other names too, of course,

Time: 5301.78

and the title of the paper is,

Time: 5303.557

"Inspired by Mary Jane Mechanisms Underlying

Time: 5306.137

"Enhanced Creativity in Cannabis Users."

Time: 5308.2

And I really like this study for a couple of reasons.

Time: 5310.87

First of all, they looked at people who did not use cannabis

Time: 5316.27

as well as people who used cannabis,

Time: 5318.7

so they had two different groups,

Time: 5319.93

but they did not evaluate creativity of the cannabis users

Time: 5324.79

while they were under the influence of cannabis.

Time: 5327.25

They looked at the level of creativity

Time: 5330.047

in these cannabis users

Time: 5332.59

when they were not under the influence of cannabis

Time: 5335.41

and asked whether or not their ability to be creative

Time: 5338.32

was enhanced by cannabis.

Time: 5339.7

Now we're going to compare this to studies

Time: 5341.86

in which people come into the laboratory

Time: 5343.93

and actually use cannabis,

Time: 5344.83

and then they evaluate creativity under that context.

Time: 5348.246

But this study has some unique takeaways

Time: 5350.68

that I think are really interesting.

Time: 5351.91

First of all, they did, yes,

Time: 5354.43

see evidence for enhanced creativity,

Time: 5356.92

and when I say enhanced creativity,

Time: 5358.39

I mean within the context of this divergent thinking thing

Time: 5361.397

that I talked about a moment ago.

Time: 5364.33

And when I say enhanced,

Time: 5365.62

I mean significantly greater than in non-users,

Time: 5368.05

so people that don't use cannabis.

Time: 5369.97

So right now I can imagine that all the cannabis users

Time: 5372.062

are cheering, "Yes, cannabis increases creativity,

Time: 5375.137

"makes people more creative than they would be otherwise."

Time: 5377.8

Well, this is interesting.

Time: 5379.45

We have to ask ourselves how that was accomplished.

Time: 5382.96

And it turns out that one of the major ways

Time: 5384.67

in which it was accomplished is that cannabis users,

Time: 5387.64

even if they're not under the influence of cannabis,

Time: 5391.06

are far more open to novel ideas,

Time: 5394.15

and they have a more explorative and reduced anxiety,

Time: 5398.98

or I should say lower anxiety mode of thinking

Time: 5401.47

when they explore novel ideas,

Time: 5402.88

which is essential for divergent thinking.

Time: 5404.86

So they observed both enhanced divergent

Time: 5407.44

and convergent creative type thinking in cannabis users.

Time: 5412.96

And the source of that, they conclude is,

Time: 5416.83

and here, I'll just quote, "Cannabis users' higher levels

Time: 5419.957

"of openness to experience are responsible

Time: 5421.937

"for their enhanced self-reported creativity

Time: 5423.677

"and convergent thinking test performance."

Time: 5426.07

So it's not necessarily that cannabis

Time: 5429.13

is increasing the capacity of the brain areas

Time: 5431.41

that are associated with creativity,

Time: 5433.96

but rather, cannabis appears to be increasing an openness

Time: 5439.03

and probably doing that in part through lowering anxiety

Time: 5442.51

in particular people, and that openness

Time: 5445.33

is leading to inclusion of more ideas

Time: 5448.63

during the divergent thinking process.

Time: 5451.21

They're willing to consider throwing up

Time: 5452.86

more things on the wall to see if they stick, so to speak.

Time: 5455.95

So in their conclusions, they have a really nice statement.

Time: 5458.38

Again, I'll just read from the paper,

Time: 5460.21

because they said it better than I ever could, quote,

Time: 5462.587

"While mainstream media has propagated the idea

Time: 5464.957

"that cannabis expands the mind and enhances creativity,

Time: 5468.377

"our results show the link between cannabis and creativity

Time: 5470.927

"is largely a spurious correlation,"

Time: 5473.68

meaning that it's not the case

Time: 5476.08

that cannabis increases creativity, but,

Time: 5480.997

and I inserted the 'but' in this quote,

Time: 5485.039

but "driven by differences in personality

Time: 5488.507

"that are related to cannabis use.

Time: 5490.547

"For example, openness to experience that are related

Time: 5493.037

"to both cannabis use and augmented creativity."

Time: 5496.265

This is a real chicken/egg argument. What do I mean by that?

Time: 5499.603

What I mean is, this paper finds

Time: 5502.6

that people who are more open to experience

Time: 5506.08

are more likely to use cannabis,

Time: 5508.33

and people who use cannabis

Time: 5509.95

are going to be more open to new experiences,

Time: 5513.46

and that combination of features, openness to experience,

Time: 5516.88

and what that openness to new experiences brings,

Time: 5520.48

enhances the convergent and divergent thinking

Time: 5523.72

that is characteristic of the creative process.

Time: 5526.78

So in short, cannabis increases creativity,

Time: 5530.08

but through changes in personality

Time: 5532.45

that tap into the creative process,

Time: 5534.76

rather than directly impacting the neural circuits

Time: 5538.22

that, for instance, turn on creativity.

Time: 5541.12

And I have to say, this study is really important,

Time: 5544.27

because by exploring cannabis users,

Time: 5548.41

not while under the influence of cannabis,

Time: 5550.9

they were able to tap into this very important,

Time: 5553.99

what I believe to be fact.

Time: 5556.09

Because if you think about a study

Time: 5557.56

in which you would have one group using cannabis

Time: 5560.47

and another group not using cannabis,

Time: 5562.12

and then you give them some task that taps into creativity,

Time: 5564.91

you will see effects and very likely,

Time: 5566.77

you'll see effects where cannabis might even increase

Time: 5568.9

divergent and convergent thinking and creativity.

Time: 5571.09

Those results have actually been published

Time: 5572.35

many times before.

Time: 5573.85

But given the varied effects of cannabis and THC

Time: 5576.213

that we talked about earlier,

Time: 5577.57

through all of that complex signaling stuff,

Time: 5579.64

you can imagine that there will also be other studies,

Time: 5581.95

and in fact, there are,

Time: 5583.3

where divergent and convergent thinking and creativity

Time: 5586.75

is not assisted by cannabis

Time: 5589.24

and might even be reduced by ingesting cannabis.

Time: 5592

However, if one considers that divergent thinking

Time: 5594.82

is absolutely crucial to the creativity process

Time: 5598.69

and the range of things that one will explore

Time: 5601.69

will be enhanced by openness

Time: 5604.33

and by reduced levels of anxiety,

Time: 5606.85

so a willingness to explore different options,

Time: 5608.8

some of which might seem completely crazy,

Time: 5611.23

and cannabis increases the personality types

Time: 5614.29

and reduces the anxiety that create that sense of openness,

Time: 5618.1

well then it makes perfect sense

Time: 5619.048

why cannabis would increase creativity

Time: 5622.111

in certain individuals, but not directly.

Time: 5625.33

And this study, the one I just referred to,

Time: 5627.97

which I should say was published

Time: 5629.23

in the journal, "Consciousness and Cognition,"

Time: 5630.94

and again, we'll provide a link to it,

Time: 5633.07

did a wonderful job of teasing out

Time: 5635.95

this impact of cannabis on personality,

Time: 5638.92

which then impacts creativity.

Time: 5641.32

So if somebody asks you, or if you're wondering,

Time: 5643.48

or if you feel like cannabis increases creativity,

Time: 5646.6

in some sense the answer is 'yes,'

Time: 5648.13

but the answer is 'yes' because of the ways

Time: 5650.29

that it shapes openness to new ideas

Time: 5653.14

and can, I should say 'can,' because not in everybody,

Time: 5656.02

but can, in some individuals, reduce anxiety.

Time: 5658.848

What this means is that if you are somebody

Time: 5661.99

who experiences anxiety or increased levels of focus

Time: 5667.253

from cannabis, regardless of the strain,

Time: 5670.998

and here I have to imagine people

Time: 5672.01

are exploring different strains,

Time: 5673.36

if they're exploring them at all,

Time: 5675.52

exploring different modes of delivery,

Time: 5676.9

smoking or ingestible, et cetera.

Time: 5678.73

If you're somebody who experiences anxiety,

Time: 5681.67

it's very likely that you won't have the increased openness

Time: 5687.25

to experience and divergent ideas

Time: 5689.47

that will facilitate creativity.

Time: 5690.88

However, if you are somebody who achieves heightened levels

Time: 5693.43

of relaxation and reduced levels of anxiety from cannabis,

Time: 5697.63

regardless of which strain we happen to be talking about,

Time: 5700.45

well then, yes, it will position you

Time: 5703.09

to be in a heightened state of creativity,

Time: 5705.79

at least as defined by convergent and divergent thinking.

Time: 5708.55

One of the more characteristic,

Time: 5710.2

or I should say stereotype qualities of people

Time: 5713.92

that smoke a lot of marijuana or ingest cannabis

Time: 5716.65

through other means is there changed patterns of speech.

Time: 5720.34

In fact, there's a lore in the clinical realm

Time: 5725.53

that you can predict or get some strong indication

Time: 5729.43

as to whether or not somebody is a cannabis user

Time: 5731.74

or pot smoker based on their voice

Time: 5734.563

and their particular tone of voice

Time: 5737.23

and their lack of inflection.

Time: 5739.27

There's a lot of speculation here,

Time: 5740.71

but fortunately, it's been studied.

Time: 5742.39

So I'd like to discuss now

Time: 5743.68

whether or not cannabis can impact patterns of speech,

Time: 5746.77

both acutely, meaning while under the influence of cannabis,

Time: 5750.1

and over time, in chronic cannabis users.

Time: 5753.67

And when I say 'chronic cannabis use,'

Time: 5755.2

I want to be very specific what I mean.

Time: 5756.82

Chronic cannabis use does not necessarily mean

Time: 5759.04

that people are smoking cannabis

Time: 5760.27

or ingesting cannabis every day,

Time: 5762.1

although certainly if they are,

Time: 5763.06

that qualifies as chronic use.

Time: 5765.37

Chronic use is regular use over time

Time: 5767.8

of anywhere from twice a week or more.

Time: 5770.23

So using cannabis once a month

Time: 5771.85

would not be considered chronic use,

Time: 5773.35

even if it's for many, many years.

Time: 5775.57

Using cannabis or ingesting cannabis

Time: 5777.19

in some way or form twice a week

Time: 5779.29

would be considered chronic use.

Time: 5781.45

Then of course, some of you out there

Time: 5782.83

are going to ask me to split hairs and say,

Time: 5784.247

"Well, what if somebody uses it twice a month?"

Time: 5786.61

Well, listen, the clinical literature,

Time: 5788.89

and the scientific literature don't get that specific.

Time: 5791.5

And of course, they're an infinite number of ways

Time: 5793.36

to arrange one's cannabis use,

Time: 5795.61

everything from zero, none at all,

Time: 5797.47

to constantly, every day, all day and everywhere in between.

Time: 5801.22

But think of chronic use as twice a week or more.

Time: 5805

Think of occasional use as less than that

Time: 5807.67

and realize that within the realm of chronic use, excuse me,

Time: 5811.39

that 'or more' can be anywhere from twice a week,

Time: 5814.39

to every day, to just in the evenings, et cetera.

Time: 5818.92

The effects of chronic use of cannabis,

Time: 5822.64

as I just defined it, on speech have been studied.

Time: 5827.95

Because of this characteristic,

Time: 5830.14

drawing out of certain syllables, a slowing of speech,

Time: 5834.7

and in many cases a total change or alteration

Time: 5839.17

in the way that people speak and use language,

Time: 5842.613

both when under the influence of cannabis

Time: 5845.65

and when not under the influence of cannabis

Time: 5848.08

if they're chronic users.

Time: 5849.88

And here we really want to distinguish between THC and CBD

Time: 5853.93

and just make it really simple and say

Time: 5855.67

that CBD is not responsible

Time: 5859.18

for most of the psychoactive effects of cannabis,

Time: 5861.97

whereas THC is, and again,

Time: 5864.13

the ratio of CBD to THC is going to be relevant there,

Time: 5867.22

but let's just think about cannabis and THC

Time: 5870.01

as one in the same for this portion of the discussion,

Time: 5872.89

realizing that, of course,

Time: 5873.723

they are not exactly the same thing.

Time: 5875.68

There's an excellent study entitled,

Time: 5877.247

"Adults with History of Recreational Cannabis Use

Time: 5879.647

"Have Altered Speech Production,"

Time: 5881.86

and we will provide a link to that,

Time: 5882.88

first author, Adam Vogel, really like this paper.

Time: 5886.06

It was published in the journal,

Time: 5887.627

"Drug and Alcohol Dependence."

Time: 5889.205

We will provide a link to it for you

Time: 5891.88

if you'd like to peruse it in more detail.

Time: 5894.37

The title itself, "Adults with a History of Recreational

Time: 5897.197

"Cannabis Use Have Altered Speech Production,"

Time: 5900.07

tells you pretty much everything you need to know,

Time: 5902.29

except there's some important nuance in here,

Time: 5904.75

because, as I mentioned earlier,

Time: 5906.85

people who smoke sativa varieties of cannabis

Time: 5910.18

oftentimes will become more talkative, much more talkative.

Time: 5914.44

However, whether or not people tend to rely

Time: 5917.35

on sativa cannabis use or indica cannabis use,

Time: 5922.439

there is a very consistent finding

Time: 5924.97

that people who are chronic users,

Time: 5926.32

again twice a week or more,

Time: 5928.06

recreational use or medicinal use,

Time: 5930.76

undergo pretty profound changes in the way that they speak,

Time: 5934.36

but in a very specific set of ways.

Time: 5937.93

Now, first of all, the changes in speech

Time: 5940.66

shouldn't surprise us at all,

Time: 5942.64

because both sativa varieties of cannabis

Time: 5945.76

and indica varieties of cannabis

Time: 5948.13

impact those brain centers involved in movement,

Time: 5950.86

the basal ganglia, remember the go, no-go circuitry,

Time: 5953.68

the circuitry that makes you want to do things,

Time: 5955.51

and the circuitry that makes you want to withhold action?

Time: 5958.15

And it tends to shift the body and brain

Time: 5961.09

toward more inaction.

Time: 5963.294

And cannabis impacts CB1 receptors in the cerebellum,

Time: 5967.21

which is involved in motor planning, execution and balance.

Time: 5971.17

So, regardless of whether or not people

Time: 5972.97

are using cannabis of the sativa or the indica variety,

Time: 5977.56

there are disruptions in motor circuitry.

Time: 5979.51

And, as you may have heard,

Time: 5980.92

if you listened to our episode

Time: 5982.15

with Rockefeller professor, Dr. Erich Jarvis,

Time: 5985.36

who works on speech and movement, speech is movement.

Time: 5990.67

The movements of the mouth, the movements of the hands,

Time: 5993.19

those are intimately related in terms of our speech.

Time: 5995.89

In fact, the centers of the brain involved in hand movements

Time: 5998.95

are part of the speech areas and vice versa.

Time: 6001.865

Erich actually pointed out

Time: 6003.21

that if you put your hands behind your back,

Time: 6005.1

provided you normally do have use of your hands,

Time: 6007.29

it actually will reduce your fluidity of speech,

Time: 6010.047

and so I'm going to put them back in front of me now.

Time: 6013.77

The point is, smoking marijuana or consuming marijuana

Time: 6018.3

by edible changes one's speech

Time: 6021.54

and does it in a very specific way.

Time: 6023.1

And in this study by Adam Vogel and colleagues,

Time: 6026.67

they explored a huge different variety of aspects of speech.

Time: 6030.51

And this can be done using spectral processing,

Time: 6032.7

which is fancy nerd speak

Time: 6034.23

for looking at how much inflection there is

Time: 6036.48

or looking at how long people hold vowels

Time: 6038.76

or consonants, et cetera, and again,

Time: 6040.29

these are people not under the influence of cannabis,

Time: 6042.84

but rather people who tend to be under the influence

Time: 6045.72

of cannabis when not participating in the study,

Time: 6048.08

in other words, chronic recreational cannabis users.

Time: 6051.39

So what are the two major shifts that cannabis causes

Time: 6054.236

on our patterns of speech?

Time: 6056.1

Well, the first one is a change

Time: 6057.96

in what's called spectral tilt.

Time: 6059.97

Again, that's fancy nerd speak

Time: 6061.17

for vocal effort and intensity.

Time: 6063.78

So, I'm not a pot smoker, I confess,

Time: 6068.167

but if I were to say the sentence,

Time: 6071.767

"Vocal effort and intensity

Time: 6073.357

"are important components of speech,"

Time: 6076.2

that's the way I would say that sentence

Time: 6078

if I was striving to enunciate very carefully

Time: 6080.52

and to accent certain words and syllables.

Time: 6084.21

A pot smoker or somebody who uses recreational cannabis

Time: 6088.56

fairly often would have reduced spectral tilt,

Time: 6092.193

AKA, vocal effort intensity, and might say,

Time: 6096.416

[mumbling] "Spectral tilt is vocal effort in intensity,

Time: 6099.187

"and it differed between groups and appeared to change

Time: 6101.287

"in line with the duration of abstinence from cannabis use."

Time: 6104.88

That I think is not a far cry

Time: 6107.13

from the change in spectral tilt that they observed here.

Time: 6109.53

In addition, there are changes in verbal timing,

Time: 6114.12

that is pronunciation of words

Time: 6116.67

and accenting particular syllables of words

Time: 6120.24

in people that consume cannabis or smoke cannabis.

Time: 6124.74

So rather than emphasize particular words within a sentence,

Time: 6129.36

so again, I'll just use a sentence from the paper

Time: 6131.28

so that you can gain more knowledge from the paper,

Time: 6133.447

"Cannabis," and I'll say it the way that I would say it,

Time: 6136.05

since I'm not a cannabis user.

Time: 6138.937

"Cannabis, marijuana, is the most commonly used,

Time: 6141.397

"illicit drug in the world with approximately 4% of adults,

Time: 6144.667

"aged 15 to 64 years reporting recent use,

Time: 6147.607

"and the citation is from the United Nations Office

Time: 6150.037

"on Drugs and Crime, 2019."

Time: 6153.03

So that would be the way

Time: 6154.05

that I would typically read that sentence.

Time: 6155.94

And having gone into the data on this paper,

Time: 6158.46

and of course evaluated references therein

Time: 6161.16

and listened to some of the spectral analysis

Time: 6164.22

that they include as data,

Time: 6166.2

you can literally go into these papers online

Time: 6167.97

and hear recordings of people who are cannabis users

Time: 6171.27

or non-cannabis users,

Time: 6172.8

and I'll try and give you a a clear sense

Time: 6175.35

without picking an extreme example of how somebody

Time: 6178.62

who's a fairly consistent or even occasional cannabis user

Time: 6182.55

might read that very same sentence.

Time: 6185.908

"Cannabis, marijuana, is the most commonly used

Time: 6188.917

"illicit drug in the world with approximately 4% of adults

Time: 6192.547

"age 15 to 64 years reporting recent use,

Time: 6195.757

"and the citation comes from the United Nation Office

Time: 6198.277

"on Drugs and Crime in 2019."

Time: 6201

Now you'll notice that wasn't a dramatic difference.

Time: 6203.49

And, of course I could have taken the liberty

Time: 6205.5

to pick an extreme example of the sort

Time: 6207.21

that they did occasionally observe

Time: 6209.52

in evaluating subjects for this paper.

Time: 6211.77

I could have said something like,

Time: 6213.548

[mumbling in low tone] "Cannabis, marijuana,

Time: 6214.627

"is the most commonly used illicit drug,"

Time: 6216.45

but frankly that would've been selecting an outlier example,

Time: 6219.36

and I don't want to do that.

Time: 6220.23

I don't want to skew the data as they say.

Time: 6222.72

Rather, if you heard the first time I read the sentence

Time: 6227.07

and the second time I read the sentence,

Time: 6228.3

what's mainly different is the difference

Time: 6231.9

in the amount of enunciation and accenting

Time: 6235.17

of particular words and symbols within a sentence.

Time: 6237.51

So the total content that's delivered is exactly the same,

Time: 6240.39

and while I wasn't measuring my pace,

Time: 6242.58

the overall rate of communication is essentially the same,

Time: 6247.38

but there's less lilting and falling of the voice

Time: 6250.41

and less accenting.

Time: 6251.28

That's the major consistent effect of cannabis use.

Time: 6254.37

Now of course, there are examples of people

Time: 6256.35

who are using a lot of cannabis,

Time: 6258.66

and it impacts brain centers

Time: 6260.25

involved in movement and speech,

Time: 6261.75

so much so that they really do have

Time: 6263.88

the really drawn out kind of, nah,

Time: 6266.61

and oftentimes this will be detected in the laugh.

Time: 6269.13

There's this stereotypical stoner laugh,

Time: 6271.89

as it's sometimes called.

Time: 6273.06

Rather than say "Ha, ha, ha"

Time: 6274.38

or that's a fake laugh, obviously.

Time: 6276.72

It's hard to make myself laugh

Time: 6277.89

if something's not actually funny.

Time: 6278.97

I'll have to think of something funny.

Time: 6280.38

When people say like, "Ha!"

Time: 6281.37

That's a bit more of the way I might laugh,

Time: 6283.38

like, "Ha," sort of the inspiratory laugh

Time: 6285.87

or the, "Ha," which is expiratory laugh.

Time: 6288.51

People who use cannabis chronically

Time: 6290.25

will often do that, "Haa," which is the back of the throat,

Time: 6293.988

[laughs raspingly] it's neither inspiratory

Time: 6297.27

nor expiratory laugh, and believe it or not,

Time: 6299.04

there's an entire literature

Time: 6300.06

on inspiratory, inhaling, versus expiratory laughs,

Time: 6303.03

and there's also a literature on cannabis

Time: 6306.177

altering the pattern of inspiratory and expiratory laughs.

Time: 6309.45

It almost sounds like a sarcastic laugh

Time: 6311.82

when, in fact, they may not be feeling sarcastic at all.

Time: 6314.37

And I have a very close friend and colleague

Time: 6316.92

who's a phenomenal neurosurgeon and neuroscientist

Time: 6319.29

by the name of Dr. Eddie Chang.

Time: 6320.52

He's the chair of neurosurgery at UCSF,

Time: 6322.29

and his lab and him are expert in the study

Time: 6325.89

of neuroscience controlling language and speech.

Time: 6329.61

And he often tells me that he can predict,

Time: 6334.14

with almost certainty,

Time: 6335.28

whether or not somebody is a regular cannabis user

Time: 6338.25

based, not just on the patterns of speech that they use,

Time: 6342.33

but even just by recording specific neurons in their brain

Time: 6345.33

that underlie the laugh reflex

Time: 6347.91

and certain patterns of speech.

Time: 6349.47

So this idea that cannabis use changes your ability

Time: 6352.56

to speak and enunciate clearly does appear to be true.

Time: 6355.86

And the stereotype that cannabis use

Time: 6358.59

tends to create more of a drawl

Time: 6360.69

or, if you will, a laziness in the laugh,

Time: 6364.83

and some of the reflexive enunciations that people use,

Time: 6368.04

does also appear to be true.

Time: 6369.3

And I say all that, of course, with the caveat

Time: 6372

that many people out there will know individuals

Time: 6375.06

or perhaps you, yourselves, are individuals

Time: 6378

that may use cannabis but that have incredible articulation,

Time: 6382.23

probably better than mine

Time: 6383.34

and better than other people out there

Time: 6384.69

who speak for a living, so I'm not saying

Time: 6386.85

that 100% of people that use cannabis regularly

Time: 6389.64

can't speak well or clearly.

Time: 6391.35

That's simply not what I'm saying,

Time: 6393.03

and I don't want to communicate that idea at all,

Time: 6395.55

but it is the case that people

Time: 6396.66

who are regular cannabis users

Time: 6398.76

are impacting the neural circuits involved in movement.

Time: 6401.37

Movement also controls speech,

Time: 6403.14

and therefore, cannabis is impacting speech.

Time: 6406.44

Now I'd like to turn our attention

Time: 6407.58

to whether or not cannabis can increase sexual activity,

Time: 6411.12

sexual desire, and/or sexual function,

Time: 6414.48

so we're going to be talking about libido, about sexual desire

Time: 6417.6

and about effects of cannabis on hormones.

Time: 6420.63

And while this might sound like a discussion

Time: 6422.7

that's purely oriented towards recreational use of cannabis,

Time: 6426.12

that is people using cannabis to heightened

Time: 6428.43

or increase their sense of arousal for sexual activity,

Time: 6432.06

it actually ventures into the clinical realm too,

Time: 6434.61

meaning there have been excellent peer-reviewed studies

Time: 6437.64

that I'll describe to you in a moment

Time: 6439.11

exploring the use of cannabis or THC, more specifically,

Time: 6442.616

for something called hypoactive sexual desire disorder,

Time: 6447.03

which refers to a persistent or recurrent deficiency

Time: 6450.45

or absence of sexual fantasies and thoughts

Time: 6452.76

and/or desire for, or receptivity to, sexual activity.

Time: 6457.32

This is a disorder that is fairly common,

Time: 6459.66

anywhere from 6% to 9% of people, both males and females.

Time: 6463.62

It used to be considered higher prevalence

Time: 6466.32

in females than in males,

Time: 6468.33

but now those numbers seem to be evening out.

Time: 6470.79

So basically, there are anywhere from 6% to 9%

Time: 6474.48

of people out there who have very diminished sexual desire.

Time: 6478.389

And so, a number of those people

Time: 6480.45

are interested in figuring out ways

Time: 6482.16

to increase their amount of sexual desire,

Time: 6484.29

and of course, there are people in the general population

Time: 6487.23

who may not have hyperactive sexual desire disorder

Time: 6490.71

who are interested in using cannabis recreationally

Time: 6493.35

in order to increase their desire for,

Time: 6495.63

or their experience of, sexual activity.

Time: 6498.57

Now first we have to acknowledge

Time: 6499.89

that sexual desire and activity

Time: 6501.81

is a complex set of processes,

Time: 6504.12

meaning it's not just one event, sex, the verb.

Time: 6507.72

It involves arousal, it involves sex, the verb,

Time: 6511.77

and it involves a whole set of mindsets and emotional states

Time: 6515.37

that vary tremendously between individuals.

Time: 6517.83

But once again, we can distill out a few basic principles,

Time: 6521.505

and I should emphasize,

Time: 6523.56

these are by no means the only chemicals

Time: 6524.827

and neuro circuits involved in the sexual arc,

Time: 6528.33

as we'll call it, desire, the act of sex, et cetera,

Time: 6531.75

but they are central to it, they are vital to it.

Time: 6534.3

They would be considered

Time: 6535.56

what I would call necessary but not sufficient,

Time: 6538.47

so there'll be other chemicals involved too,

Time: 6540.3

but the main chemicals in neuro circuits

Time: 6541.8

are those involved in dopamine,

Time: 6543.54

so the so-called mesolimbic reward pathway,

Time: 6545.85

in particular, a brain structure called nucleus accumbens,

Time: 6548.76

which we'll talk about more in a moment,

Time: 6550.41

is vital to all motivated behaviors and to the seeking out

Time: 6554.46

of all particular types of pleasurable experiences,

Time: 6557.61

and sex is no exception.

Time: 6558.99

So when we hear that the nucleus accumbens is activated,

Time: 6561.99

that almost always means that dopamine

Time: 6564.12

has been released in that area

Time: 6565.83

and other areas of the brain body,

Time: 6567.57

and we can consider dopamine central

Time: 6569.55

to the desire for, pursuit of, an act of sex.

Time: 6574.539

In addition to that, there are molecules like oxytocin,

Time: 6578.58

which are involved in pair bonding,

Time: 6580.05

and they're going to be neural circuit specific

Time: 6581.58

to the oxytocin circuitry,

Time: 6583.62

but in terms of sexual arousal and sexual behavior,

Time: 6587.4

it's really the dopamine pathway in this nucleus accumbens,

Time: 6590.16

which are especially vital.

Time: 6592.297

That allows us to address the question,

Time: 6594.6

does cannabis increase, decrease,

Time: 6598.89

or have no effect on sexual desire

Time: 6601.68

and/or the ability to have sex?

Time: 6604.68

And therein, we will find some very interesting answers,

Time: 6608.7

and because, once again,

Time: 6610.59

it will point to the fact that the effects of cannabis

Time: 6614.76

on different individuals can be highly divergent,

Time: 6618.06

meaning in one set of individuals,

Time: 6620.31

cannabis will make them far less anxious.

Time: 6622.77

And in another set of individuals,

Time: 6624.45

the same strain of cannabis, at the same dosage,

Time: 6626.79

will make them extremely anxious.

Time: 6628.35

The same can be said also of sexual activity.

Time: 6631.98

And this was beautifully illustrated

Time: 6633.99

in the context of sexual desire in the journal,

Time: 6636.697

"Psycho-pharmacology," in a paper published in 2017.

Time: 6639.45

The title of this paper is, "Individual Prolactin Reactivity

Time: 6643.267

"Modulates Response of Nucleus Accumbens to Erotic Stimuli

Time: 6646.897

"During Acute Cannabis Intoxication, an fMRI Pilot Study."

Time: 6651.051

So I'll give a little bit of definition

Time: 6653.61

to some of the terms in the title

Time: 6654.75

that will make it easier for you to understand the paper,

Time: 6657.66

but then I'll just march through the results,

Time: 6659.16

because they're very straightforward

Time: 6660.66

and easy to understand and very interesting.

Time: 6663.39

fMRI is just functional magnetic resonance imaging,

Time: 6666.57

so basically subjects in this experiment

Time: 6669.3

came into the laboratory.

Time: 6672.06

They were either people who had not used cannabis before

Time: 6676.23

or who had used cannabis before.

Time: 6678.849

They were placed into a brain scanner,

Time: 6680.97

one of these fMRI devices.

Time: 6682.68

It looks like a tube that people are backed up into

Time: 6685.802

and then they can view images in there,

Time: 6687.267

and their brain can be imaged

Time: 6688.83

without having to remove any skull

Time: 6690.36

or drill into the skull, no neurosurgery.

Time: 6693.72

The participants in this study were grouped

Time: 6695.85

according to whether or not they had experienced

Time: 6697.71

any aphrodisiac effects

Time: 6699.185

during the intoxication with cannabis,

Time: 6701.79

so that would be the first group, Group A,

Time: 6703.77

they literally called it group A for aphrodisiac.

Time: 6705.96

And then the second group,

Time: 6707.07

and this is the only thing I don't like about this study,

Time: 6708.84

is rather than call it group B,

Time: 6710.34

they called them 'group non A,'

Time: 6712.71

which just gets a little confusing.

Time: 6714.75

So I'll try and simplify all this.

Time: 6716.46

There are two groups,

Time: 6717.87

and one group experiences sexual arousal

Time: 6722.22

when under the influence of cannabis, THC specifically.

Time: 6726.27

The other group does not.

Time: 6727.59

And it turns out this is a very commonly observed divergence

Time: 6732.06

of effects of cannabis.

Time: 6734.31

Some people experience a lot of sexual arousal

Time: 6736.86

from cannabis and THC in particular, and some people do not,

Time: 6740.61

in fact, they experience suppression of sexual desire,

Time: 6744.12

and it's always been a little bit mysterious

Time: 6745.95

as to why that is.

Time: 6747.99

Well, in this study, they showed people

Time: 6751.77

in both groups erotic images,

Time: 6753.75

and they measured sexual arousal

Time: 6755.94

through a number of different measures.

Time: 6756.99

We won't go into all that.

Time: 6757.89

It was largely subjective.

Time: 6759.36

There have been other studies

Time: 6760.29

where they've actually measured things

Time: 6762.09

like erections in males and vaginal lubrication in females,

Time: 6765.822

so-called autonomic responses that people can't lie about,

Time: 6770.4

so to speak, and that tap into other aspects

Time: 6774.36

of the so-called sexual arousal process.

Time: 6777.69

In this study, they also took blood samples

Time: 6779.79

to look at the concentration of things like cannabinoids,

Time: 6783.21

so this is a really nice study

Time: 6784.47

in that they actually measured how much THC

Time: 6786.964

was in the bloodstream in different individuals

Time: 6789.72

who reacted to these erotic stimuli in different ways.

Time: 6792.45

And they measured hormones, namely cortisol,

Time: 6795.24

which is a stress hormone,

Time: 6796.32

which tends to negatively correlate

Time: 6797.85

with sexual arousal and prolactin.

Time: 6800.58

And the interesting takeaway from the study was

Time: 6803.61

that for people, and it didn't matter

Time: 6805.83

if it was males or females, 'cause they looked at both,

Time: 6810.3

for people that experienced elevated prolactin levels

Time: 6814.964

under cannabis intoxication, that's how they refer to it.

Time: 6819.3

People take cannabis, they measured prolactin.

Time: 6821.01

Some people had elevated prolactin and some people did not.

Time: 6824.966

For the people that had elevated levels of prolactin,

Time: 6829.23

they did not observe activation

Time: 6831.57

of brain areas associated with sexual arousal,

Time: 6834.39

in this case, the right nucleus accumbens,

Time: 6836.46

so you have two nucleus accumbi,

Time: 6838.86

I guess they would be called, one on each side of the brain,

Time: 6840.78

and the activation of that brain area

Time: 6842.51

is strongly associated with dopamine and with arousal

Time: 6845.55

and sexual arousal in particular in this study,

Time: 6847.92

and if people had elevated prolactin,

Time: 6850.02

they did not experience activation of nucleus accumbens,

Time: 6852.93

and they did not report feeling sexually aroused

Time: 6855.45

to those pictures, at least not to the same degree

Time: 6857.37

as the other group.

Time: 6858.54

So some people's prolactin levels go up

Time: 6860.67

when they ingest cannabis,

Time: 6862.71

and those people do not achieve elevated levels

Time: 6865.92

of sexual arousal when under the influence of cannabis,

Time: 6869.4

even if they're looking at erotic stimuli.

Time: 6871.738

That makes sense, because prolactin

Time: 6875.79

is mutually inhibitory, as we would say.

Time: 6879.15

It's kind of in a push-pull with dopamine.

Time: 6881.07

When dopamine levels are high,

Time: 6882.33

prolactin levels tend to be low,

Time: 6884.61

and when prolactin levels are high,

Time: 6886.2

dopamine levels tend to be low.

Time: 6888.03

The other group, so-called Group A,

Time: 6890.58

that experienced elevated levels of sexual arousal

Time: 6893.52

when under the influence of cannabis

Time: 6895.26

and viewing erotic stimuli,

Time: 6897.78

that group did not show elevated levels of prolactin

Time: 6901.62

in response to cannabis.

Time: 6903.84

So this, I believe,

Time: 6904.86

resolves a longstanding controversy in the field,

Time: 6908.07

which is, does cannabis increase sexual arousal?

Time: 6911.34

Well, it depends.

Time: 6912.33

If you fall into the category of person

Time: 6914.25

who has elevated levels of prolactin

Time: 6915.99

in response to cannabis, then no, actually cannabis

Time: 6920.16

will suppress your sexual response and desire.

Time: 6922.921

If, however, you are in the category of person

Time: 6926.048

that does not have elevated levels of prolactin

Time: 6929.85

in response to cannabis,

Time: 6931.74

well then, erotic stimuli can potentially

Time: 6935.13

and in fact, do increase sexual arousal

Time: 6937.8

in the majority of individuals.

Time: 6939.36

Now, many of you are probably hearing this

Time: 6940.86

and wondering whether or not you fall

Time: 6942.6

into one category of individual or another.

Time: 6945.9

And the key thing here to understand

Time: 6948.99

is that levels of prolactin heading into the study

Time: 6953.13

did not predict whether or not people would respond

Time: 6957.95

to cannabis with elevated or non elevated

Time: 6962.34

or even reduced levels of sexual arousal.

Time: 6964.98

It was whether or not people's prolactin levels went up

Time: 6968.73

or did not go up, that predicted

Time: 6971.31

whether or not their levels of arousal would go up or not.

Time: 6974.73

So if you are somebody who, yes,

Time: 6977.13

does experience elevated levels of sexual arousal

Time: 6980.46

and function went under the influence of cannabis,

Time: 6983.61

well that's very likely that cannabis

Time: 6985.2

does not increase your prolactin levels,

Time: 6986.91

at least not to a significant degree while you're taking it.

Time: 6990.51

And if you're somebody who does not experience increases

Time: 6993.18

in sexual arousal or function

Time: 6995.07

or even diminished sexual arousal and function

Time: 6996.783

when under the influence of cannabis,

Time: 6998.4

it's very likely that cannabis

Time: 6999.78

is increasing your levels of prolactin.

Time: 7001.76

Unfortunately, there's no way to know or predict

Time: 7004.37

based on some other measure.

Time: 7006.41

I think the outcome measure,

Time: 7007.88

that is increased or not increased

Time: 7010.16

or even reduced sexual arousal is really the litmus test

Time: 7013.04

by which one can figure that out.

Time: 7014.99

While we are on the topic of the effects of cannabis

Time: 7017.24

on sexual function and hormones like prolactin,

Time: 7020.36

it's probably worth mentioning

Time: 7021.68

that cannabis has been studied extensively

Time: 7024.11

for its impact on other hormones,

Time: 7026.3

and we can summarize those literature in the following way.

Time: 7029.99

And here I'm referring to studies only on adults.

Time: 7032.09

We'll talk about the developing brain and body

Time: 7033.86

in a little bit, but it is very clear

Time: 7037.43

that smoking cannabis increases prolactin levels.

Time: 7042.978

Very, very clear.

Time: 7044.48

Now, you might say, "Didn't, you just describe a study

Time: 7047.277

"about a set of individuals whose prolactin didn't increase

Time: 7051.477

"and as a consequence,

Time: 7053.067

"their level of sexual desire went up?"

Time: 7055.79

Yes, there are a subset of individuals

Time: 7057.56

for which that's true, but people who smoke cannabis

Time: 7062.37

do experience increases in prolactin,

Time: 7065.42

and that's especially pronounced in people

Time: 7067.19

that smoke cannabis more than twice a week.

Time: 7069.8

So this is important, prolactin, as I referred to earlier,

Time: 7074.45

is reciprocal or mutually inhibitory with dopamine.

Time: 7079.79

One way to think about this is in the context

Time: 7081.53

of the normal sexual arousal arc

Time: 7083.63

whereby dopamine is increased

Time: 7085.43

when people are sexually aroused, but then after orgasm,

Time: 7089.6

both in males and females, prolactin levels skyrocket.

Time: 7092.84

This is actually what creates

Time: 7094.4

the so-called refractory period for males

Time: 7096.41

during which they cannot achieve erection again

Time: 7098.42

for some period of time.

Time: 7099.62

That relates directly to how long

Time: 7102.38

the prolactin increase lasts.

Time: 7106.46

Prolactin is also increased in new parents of all species,

Time: 7110.27

including humans, which at least partially,

Time: 7115.1

explains some of the reported or typical reductions

Time: 7118.52

in sexual desire and activity in new parents.

Time: 7121.07

Now, there are other reasons for that too,

Time: 7122.24

sleep deprivation, but nature is smart

Time: 7125.09

and has arranged a set of hormones and circuits

Time: 7127.4

in the brain and body, such that when tending

Time: 7129.65

to a newborn is the most important thing, it relegates,

Time: 7133.16

it reduces the importance of producing more children

Time: 7137.84

and sexual activity in those moments

Time: 7140.09

and days and weeks, sometimes longer.

Time: 7141.95

So when prolactin levels are up, dopamine levels are down.

Time: 7144.56

Smoking marijuana more than twice a week

Time: 7146.57

significantly increases prolactin.

Time: 7149.06

There are fewer studies exploring

Time: 7151.4

whether or not edible marijuana has the same effect,

Time: 7154.28

although the preliminary evidence suggests that it does not.

Time: 7158.21

I get into this in a lot more detail in a future episode,

Time: 7161.21

all about hormones with Dr. Kyle Gillett,

Time: 7164.12

who's been on this podcast before.

Time: 7165.95

But he verified that, and my read of the literature

Time: 7168.41

is that the edible forms of marijuana, cannabis,

Time: 7173.476

probably again, let's put an asterisks next to this,

Time: 7177.08

but it appears do not have as as much

Time: 7179.48

of a prolactin elevating effect

Time: 7181.1

and therefore, not as much of a dopamine suppressive effect

Time: 7185.03

and therefore, not as much

Time: 7186.2

of a testosterone suppressing effect,

Time: 7188.39

and that gets to the issue of testosterone.

Time: 7190.04

Does cannabis, marijuana suppress testosterone?

Time: 7192.77

And this is a very controversial literature and here's why.

Time: 7196.7

Some studies say, "Yes, it suppresses testosterone

Time: 7199.98

"in males and females," and keep in mind

Time: 7202.67

that testosterone in females is vital for libido

Time: 7204.77

and cognitive function, cellular repair, et cetera,

Time: 7208.43

so it's not just important in males, of course.

Time: 7211.4

However, other studies say that cannabis

Time: 7214.37

does not decrease testosterone,

Time: 7216.53

and it seems to depend on whether or not the cannabis

Time: 7220.49

is brought into the system by way of smoking or edible.

Time: 7223.67

And it seems to depend on whether or not the cannabis

Time: 7227.21

is used chronically by an individual or acutely.

Time: 7230.03

And here I just want to zoom out and say

Time: 7231.98

that studies on cannabis or drugs of any kind in humans

Time: 7235.19

are really complicated.

Time: 7236.24

If you think about it,

Time: 7237.08

someone has to come into the laboratory,

Time: 7238.85

and let's say you want to study chronic cannabis use.

Time: 7241.542

Well, you can't keep them in the laboratory all the time,

Time: 7243.98

so you have to rely on their self-report

Time: 7245.72

of how often they use cannabis and in what form,

Time: 7247.94

and you can't really control from one individual to the next

Time: 7250.43

of how much cannabis and THC

Time: 7251.99

they're bringing into their system.

Time: 7252.95

One person might smoke cannabis out of a bong

Time: 7255.65

and take big, deep, lungs-full bong inhalations or such.

Time: 7262.31

Other people might smoke joints.

Time: 7264.59

Other people might use edibles.

Time: 7266.15

It becomes very complicated to know what people have done

Time: 7268.46

and that they're reporting it accurately,

Time: 7270.35

and no joke here, especially if marijuana

Time: 7272.99

is impacting the short-term memory systems.

Time: 7275

They might not actually remember.

Time: 7276.17

They might not be tracking it that well.

Time: 7278.66

Contrast that with studies of the acute use

Time: 7280.97

of cannabis and THC, where people who are not regular users

Time: 7284.09

come into the laboratory and now suddenly,

Time: 7286.55

with institutional guidelines and safety protocols,

Time: 7289.58

are under the influence of THC and cannabis.

Time: 7291.77

Well, now you're dealing with a person

Time: 7292.97

who may not have experience with the elevated heart rate

Time: 7297.17

and blood pressure that's characteristic of cannabis,

Time: 7298.687

'cause it is a stimulant,

Time: 7300.14

at least when initially brought into the system,

Time: 7302.09

even if it might eventually lead to relaxation.

Time: 7304.43

So now you've got someone who's anxious

Time: 7305.84

or somebody who's not anxious, who's deeply relaxed,

Time: 7308.78

and you're trying to study these effects,

Time: 7310.04

so it's a moving target of sorts,

Time: 7312.41

and it's very complicated to study marijuana and cannabis

Time: 7315.94

in its various derivatives in this way.

Time: 7317.81

Now you can probably appreciate better

Time: 7319.91

as to why there's so little nuanced data

Time: 7322.58

about sativa versus indica,

Time: 7324.83

versus different ratios of CBD and THC.

Time: 7328.01

It's really difficult to do these studies

Time: 7329.81

in the first place.

Time: 7330.65

That said, the general rules

Time: 7332.27

are smoking marijuana increases prolactin in men and women,

Time: 7334.94

which will reduce dopamine and testosterone.

Time: 7337.31

Smoking marijuana chronically,

Time: 7339.643

meaning more than twice a week,

Time: 7342.232

does appear to reduce testosterone significantly

Time: 7345.32

and elevate so-called aromatase enzymes,

Time: 7347.886

which are the enzymes

Time: 7349.31

that convert testosterone into estrogen.

Time: 7351.56

This might partially explain the effect

Time: 7353.401

that occurs in about 35% of males, which is gynecomastia,

Time: 7358.4

which is a development of breast tissue in males,

Time: 7361.1

in particular young males,

Time: 7362.69

who have elevated levels of testosterone

Time: 7364.55

or who are taking exogenous testosterone

Time: 7367.37

for testosterone replacement therapy

Time: 7369.35

or if they're taking high doses, anabolic steroids,

Time: 7371.78

or in females, the increase in breast size,

Time: 7375.38

which is due to additional estrogen

Time: 7378.23

from testosterone converted to estrogen.

Time: 7379.94

So it does appear that marijuana and cannabis

Time: 7381.8

increase estrogen, reduce testosterone, increase prolactin,

Time: 7384.89

especially in chronic users.

Time: 7387.47

Now, I'm sure that some people out there will say,

Time: 7389.03

well, their testosterone levels are exceedingly high

Time: 7392.33

or they are fine, meaning the constellation of symptoms

Time: 7395.45

associated with low testosterone and elevate estrogen

Time: 7398.23

are not present in them.

Time: 7400.16

That probably means one of two things, or both.

Time: 7404.81

They either had elevated levels of testosterone

Time: 7407.09

to begin with, so their ceiling was higher,

Time: 7408.74

so bringing it down didn't have that much of effect,

Time: 7410.66

or that they have very low levels

Time: 7413.51

of aromatase in their system.

Time: 7415.64

There are some anecdotal evidence

Time: 7418.22

that smoking particular parts of the marijuana plant,

Time: 7421.22

in particular, the seeds, can increase aromatase

Time: 7425.42

in the conversion of testosterone to estrogen.

Time: 7427.43

I think in the old days,

Time: 7428.54

the lore was the seeds make you sterile,

Time: 7430.58

and I think that was related to what I just told you,

Time: 7432.71

this increase in conversion of testosterone to estrogen.

Time: 7435.83

There's a vast literature

Time: 7437.57

on the effects of cannabis on fertility.

Time: 7440.833

Yes, it does seem to alter sperm motility

Time: 7445.22

and sperm health and function

Time: 7446.66

when taken chronically, more than twice per week,

Time: 7448.85

in particular high doses of high potency THC.

Time: 7452.27

This is something we will cover in far more detail

Time: 7454.31

on a future episode all about fertility.

Time: 7456.44

And in females, there's an increase in estrogen

Time: 7459.56

as a consequence of smoking marijuana

Time: 7462.47

and increasing prolactin and estrogen in parallel.

Time: 7466.43

Whether or not that's detrimental isn't clear,

Time: 7469.07

although I point out that elevated estrogen and prolactin

Time: 7473.152

can be associated, again, can be associated,

Time: 7476.21

not necessarily, and certainly, not causative,

Time: 7478.67

but can be associated with elevated levels

Time: 7481.003

or frequency of breast cancer detection.

Time: 7483.62

So cannabis and its effects on hormones

Time: 7486.08

are not without consequence.

Time: 7488.87

There are effects of cannabis

Time: 7490.37

on cortisol in some individuals.

Time: 7493.07

It greatly increases cortisol due the anxiety

Time: 7495.65

and paranoia it can create,

Time: 7498.02

and in other individuals it reduces cortisol.

Time: 7500.33

Again, we have these divergent effects.

Time: 7502.25

But I want to be very clear, the effects on prolactin,

Time: 7504.89

meaning elevated prolactin, the effects on testosterone,

Time: 7507.08

meaning, at least most studies point to,

Time: 7509.12

reduced levels of testosterone and increased estrogen.

Time: 7512.51

That seems to be true for most all individuals

Time: 7515.42

that chronically use cannabis,

Time: 7517.76

whereas the effects on cortisol tend to be divergent.

Time: 7521.42

Cannabis increases cortisol in some individuals

Time: 7523.67

and decreases cortisol in others.

Time: 7525.29

In general, increases in cortisol that are ongoing

Time: 7528.68

are not healthy for us and so on.

Time: 7531.606

And then of course, there are other effects on hormones,

Time: 7534.53

and I'll just briefly summarize those,

Time: 7535.94

that THC in particular, not CBD, but THC in particular,

Time: 7539.87

is known to be strongly inhibitory

Time: 7541.67

for something called gonadotropin-releasing hormone.

Time: 7543.98

This is a hormone that's released from the brain,

Time: 7546.02

from the hypothalamus that then feeds onto,

Time: 7549.5

or I should say signals to the pituitary gland,

Time: 7551.69

which is also near the roof of your mouth,

Time: 7553.01

a lot of stuff happening near the roof of your mouth

Time: 7554.51

it turns out, biologically,

Time: 7556.1

and reduced levels of gonadotropin-releasing hormone

Time: 7559.25

caused by cannabis use,

Time: 7560.51

reduced levels of LH luteinizing hormone

Time: 7562.85

and FSH, which reduce levels of testosterone

Time: 7565.91

and sperm production in males and egg health and ovulation

Time: 7572.3

and menstrual function in females.

Time: 7574.97

Now, I'm sure there are a number of women out there

Time: 7577.88

who will say they have perfectly normal menstrual cycles

Time: 7579.92

despite using cannabis.

Time: 7582.14

I'm certainly not going to dispute that,

Time: 7584.54

but if you are somebody who's trying to maximize fertility

Time: 7588.17

or regulate or balance hormones,

Time: 7590.87

marijuana and cannabis reduces GnRH.

Time: 7594.369

That is the gonadotropin-release from the hypothalamus

Time: 7598.07

and thereby reduces luteinizing hormone

Time: 7600.74

and follicle stimulating hormone,

Time: 7602.24

which are released from the pituitary

Time: 7603.83

and travel in the bloodstream

Time: 7605.51

to support normal ovarian function and health

Time: 7608.6

and normal testicular function and health

Time: 7611.12

in females and males, respectively.

Time: 7613.25

Up until now I've been discussing the biological

Time: 7615.35

and psychological effects of cannabis.

Time: 7617.96

Now I'd like to shift our attention

Time: 7619.46

to some of the negative health effects of cannabis

Time: 7622.55

and shine light on some of the individuals

Time: 7625.49

or groups out there that need to be especially wary of

Time: 7628.91

and probably avoid cannabis use entirely,

Time: 7631.73

including ingestion of cannabis by way of edible.

Time: 7636.23

And I frame things that way,

Time: 7637.31

because I think there is an increasingly large number

Time: 7640.07

of people out there that appreciate that smoking tobacco

Time: 7644.72

or smoking cannabis, vaping tobacco,

Time: 7649.04

yes, vaping tobacco, or vaping cannabis,

Time: 7652.88

each and all have negative health consequences on the lungs

Time: 7656.72

and on the so-called endothelial cells of the body,

Time: 7659.39

the cells that make up the vasculature,

Time: 7661.25

the capillaries and blood vessels.

Time: 7663.38

If you don't already know this, I'll make it very clear,

Time: 7666.92

and I'll make it very brief.

Time: 7668.63

Whether or not you smoke or vape tobacco or cannabis,

Time: 7673.46

you are severely impairing the function of endothelial cells

Time: 7677.51

that make up the capillaries and blood vessels

Time: 7679.85

of your brain and body,

Time: 7681.23

and that is known to decrease cognitive capacity over time,

Time: 7685.85

increase probability of strokes,

Time: 7687.65

severely impact lung function,

Time: 7691.04

and also lead to things like peripheral neuropathies.

Time: 7694.4

It leads to sexual dysfunction,

Time: 7696.32

because of lack of blood flow to the genitals,

Time: 7699.71

can lead to other aspects of reproductive damage,

Time: 7702.53

including to the ovaries and testes.

Time: 7704.78

Essentially, there is no other way to state it,

Time: 7707.27

except that smoking and vaping

Time: 7710.06

have negative health consequences

Time: 7712.52

that are independent of the substances

Time: 7715.753

that people are trying to get into their bloodstream

Time: 7719.03

by smoking or vaping.

Time: 7720.32

So people smoke and vape tobacco,

Time: 7722

and people smoke and vape cannabis, and in both cases,

Time: 7725.66

if we just set aside the direct effects of tobacco

Time: 7729.05

and the direct effects of cannabis,

Time: 7732.44

we can confidently say that the process of smoking,

Time: 7736.1

of inhaling smoke into the lungs,

Time: 7737.81

and yes, also vaping, bringing the chemicals

Time: 7742.22

that transport nicotine, or in this case, cannabis,

Time: 7745.73

into the lungs by way of vaping

Time: 7748.16

are both severely detrimental to endothelial cells.

Time: 7751.55

I think a few years ago, when vaping wasn't as prominent,

Time: 7754.4

there was this question and this idea

Time: 7756.38

that maybe vaping was going to be far healthier

Time: 7758.87

or at least not as bad as smoking,

Time: 7762.65

but now we can see a huge number

Time: 7764.9

of negative health effects of vaping,

Time: 7766.49

some of which are distinct from the effects of smoking.

Time: 7769.25

So if you'd like more information on smoking versus vaping,

Time: 7772.34

please see the episode that I did on nicotine.

Time: 7774.29

We will also do an entire episode

Time: 7776.12

all about vaping in the future,

Time: 7778.64

but there's really no way to slice it and dice it

Time: 7781.4

or candy coat it.

Time: 7782.63

The fact of the matter is that smoking has clear

Time: 7785.6

and severe negative health consequences, regardless of

Time: 7788.63

whether or not you're smoking tobacco or cannabis, THC,

Time: 7793.7

and vaping has negative health consequences,

Time: 7797.81

whether or not you're using the vape to bring in nicotine

Time: 7800.75

or THC or some combination of THC and CBD.

Time: 7804.29

That's simply the way it is.

Time: 7805.58

With that said, now I'd like to focus our attention

Time: 7807.74

on the direct effects that cannabis has,

Time: 7810.5

either by way of THC action or by way of CBD action

Time: 7815.18

in terms of positive or negative health effects

Time: 7818.27

on the brain and body, and we're going to explore that

Time: 7820.85

first as a function of age.

Time: 7822.92

And the reason we're going to do that

Time: 7824.6

is related to a fact that I mentioned

Time: 7826.55

at the beginning of the episode,

Time: 7827.99

which is that the CB1 and the CB2 receptors,

Time: 7831.56

the two receptors for cannabis to which THC and CBD and CBN

Time: 7836.66

and all other psychoactive compounds of cannabis bind to

Time: 7840.8

to have their actions are present throughout development.

Time: 7845.36

Believe it or not,

Time: 7846.2

they are present very soon after conception,

Time: 7849.38

and the CB1 and CB2 receptors actually play a critical role

Time: 7853.61

in the development of the fetus.

Time: 7855.8

Now, you might wonder why that is,

Time: 7858.44

because of course, the developing fetus

Time: 7860.45

doesn't necessarily expect to see cannabis

Time: 7862.61

or to be exposed to cannabis and THC and CBD.

Time: 7865.88

But, as you recall, endogenous cannabinoids are present

Time: 7870.65

in the adult brain and body and endogenous cannabinoids,

Time: 7874.37

it turns out, are also present in the developing fetus.

Time: 7876.98

In fact, endogenous cannabinoids are present

Time: 7879.59

at much greater levels in the developing fetus

Time: 7882.2

than they are after a child is born,

Time: 7885.89

and levels of endogenous cannabinoids

Time: 7887.84

actually go down across development.

Time: 7890.27

I find this really interesting.

Time: 7891.56

What this means is that endogenous cannabinoids

Time: 7894.11

and activation of the CB1 and CB2 receptors

Time: 7897.05

are an integral part of neural development,

Time: 7900.35

and this is going to become especially relevant

Time: 7902.24

in considering whether or not pregnant mothers

Time: 7904.16

should or should not use cannabis or CBD,

Time: 7907.939

and it also points to some very interesting biology

Time: 7912.258

in terms of how the brain develops

Time: 7914.33

and how the body develops.

Time: 7915.68

Now the development of the brain and nervous system and body

Time: 7918.95

is a fascinating and vast literature,

Time: 7921.17

certainly far too vast to cover in today's episode,

Time: 7924.17

especially at this late hour as it were,

Time: 7926.9

but we will have a future episode

Time: 7928.82

all about brain development.

Time: 7930.86

In terms of the effects of cannabis,

Time: 7933.74

it's sufficient to say that cannabinoid receptors

Time: 7937.37

are present and active in the developing fetus.

Time: 7941.18

They're present and active in the newborn.

Time: 7943.52

They're present and active in adolescence.

Time: 7946.04

And across that time, from conception until adolescence,

Time: 7950.12

endogenous cannabinoids are mainly responsible

Time: 7952.85

for the actions of those cannabinoid receptors.

Time: 7955.97

During that time, the cannabinoid receptors

Time: 7957.95

are having very specific effects

Time: 7959.81

that are distinct from their effects later in life,

Time: 7962.33

and those effects can largely be explained

Time: 7964.22

in terms of neural development.

Time: 7965.54

Again, we don't have time for an entire lecture on this now,

Time: 7969.2

but during development,

Time: 7971.63

your body was a collection of a bunch of cells.

Time: 7974.33

It's actually called a blastula,

Time: 7975.98

which means a ball of cells, and then those cells

Time: 7978.11

actually have to grow out connections

Time: 7979.76

and duplicate themselves,

Time: 7981.41

and this is a very interesting process

Time: 7983.27

by which neurons initially are situated far apart,

Time: 7986.15

and then they grow out connections

Time: 7987.71

and make contacts with one another.

Time: 7989.03

They remove certain connections,

Time: 7990.32

depending on what kind of life events you're exposed to.

Time: 7993.29

If you have a wonderful event early in life

Time: 7995.57

or a traumatic early life,

Time: 7997.49

those connections change, et cetera.

Time: 8000.34

The important point for today's discussion

Time: 8001.87

is that the CB1 receptor, in particular,

Time: 8005.11

is expressed on every neuron in the developing brain

Time: 8008.71

and has been shown to be important

Time: 8010.06

for every aspect of neural development,

Time: 8013.09

from the proliferation of cells,

Time: 8015.19

meaning getting enough cells to create a brain,

Time: 8017.53

to the outgrowth of the so-called axons,

Time: 8020.05

the little wires that connect up neurons with one another,

Time: 8023.26

to the steering, the direction

Time: 8025.78

which those axons go in development, which is essential,

Time: 8030.64

and even so far as to explain the connections

Time: 8034.24

that form between neurons, the so-called synapses,

Time: 8036.73

and then how those synapses work.

Time: 8038.71

So the basic statement here is that endogenous cannabinoids

Time: 8042.97

and CB1 receptor activation are critical

Time: 8045.13

for every aspect of brain wiring and development.

Time: 8048.588

With that in mind, the statement I'm about to make

Time: 8051.43

is absolutely terrifying, at least to me,

Time: 8054.19

and frankly, it should be terrifying to you as well.

Time: 8057.01

And the statement is, the current statistics

Time: 8061.75

on cannabis use in pregnant mothers is absolutely shocking.

Time: 8067.6

The most recent survey of pregnant mothers

Time: 8069.87

in the United States show that 15%, one-five,

Time: 8073.848

15% of pregnant mothers report using cannabis

Time: 8077.65

in some form or another, either smoking it

Time: 8080.5

or more likely ingestion of in edible,

Time: 8083.89

because they are aware of the negative effects

Time: 8085.69

of smoking on the developing fetus, ingestion of an edible

Time: 8089.08

to increase THC and/or CBD during pregnancy,

Time: 8093.58

which to me, I have to say,

Time: 8095.38

as a developmental neurobiologist is, frankly, it's scary.

Time: 8100.54

It's absolutely scary, because that CB1 receptor

Time: 8103.6

is not just a minor player in neural development.

Time: 8106.36

It is absolutely central to every critical aspect

Time: 8109.48

of brain wiring and development.

Time: 8111.55

Now, the long-term implications

Time: 8112.99

or even the short-term implications of this,

Time: 8114.91

15% of mothers self-reporting the use of cannabis

Time: 8118.93

at some point during pregnancy are not yet known.

Time: 8122.2

This is, as we would say, an experiment that's ongoing.

Time: 8125.74

But I'd be remiss if I didn't point out these data

Time: 8128.59

and just implore you, please, please, please,

Time: 8131.44

if you are pregnant or considering getting pregnant,

Time: 8133.33

you're a cannabis user, whether or not you're using edibles,

Time: 8135.49

if you're a CBD user, please do whatever is necessary

Time: 8141.31

to not ingest cannabis or smoke cannabis

Time: 8145.15

or ingest CBD during pregnancy.

Time: 8147.79

Now, there may be certain clinical indications

Time: 8150.13

by which your physician and your OB/GYN,

Time: 8153.34

and the pediatrician that will eventually

Time: 8155.56

be the pediatrician for your child will prescribe CBD,

Time: 8160.75

although it's hard to imagine what those are.

Time: 8162.46

I contacted a number of different pediatricians and OB/GYNs

Time: 8167.167

and not a single one said they would ever suggest,

Time: 8170.5

and in fact would strongly discourage their patients

Time: 8172.99

from using cannabis during pregnancy.

Time: 8176.02

But I think that the advent of edible forms of cannabis,

Time: 8180.94

and the combination of THC and CBD in certain products,

Time: 8185.83

and the fact that most people view CBD as safer,

Time: 8188.8

because it does not include, or does not have, I should say,

Time: 8192.85

the psychoactive effects that THC does,

Time: 8195.25

has led to a situation where you have 15%

Time: 8199.6

of pregnant mothers using cannabis

Time: 8201.37

at some point during pregnancy

Time: 8203.14

and maybe even frequently throughout pregnancy,

Time: 8205.42

and the effects on the developing fetus

Time: 8207.31

are completely unknown.

Time: 8209.08

But recall that cannabis and THC and CBD outcompete,

Time: 8214.84

meaning they park in the receptor

Time: 8216.91

for endogenous cannabinoids

Time: 8218.65

and prevent endogenous cannabinoids

Time: 8221.2

from having their normal level and pattern of action,

Time: 8224.53

so this is absolutely critical.

Time: 8226.12

I cannot encourage you enough, or rather, I should say,

Time: 8228.61

I cannot discourage enough the use of cannabis

Time: 8232.78

and any related compounds in cannabis,

Time: 8236.034

edible or smoked, certainly not smoked,

Time: 8238.36

but even edible during pregnancy,

Time: 8241.18

and certainly in breastfeeding, lactating mothers,

Time: 8245.47

the same is also true.

Time: 8246.43

Recall that cannabis and THC and CBD

Time: 8250.03

are incredibly lipophilic.

Time: 8251.948

They're fat soluble,

Time: 8253.81

and they get into cells very readily,

Time: 8255.85

and they cross the blood brain barrier.

Time: 8257.29

They cross the blood placental barrier.

Time: 8259.75

So when I encountered this statistic,

Time: 8261.61

I had to kind of wipe my eyes a few times.

Time: 8263.53

I could not believe it, and yet I crosschecked that number

Time: 8266.86

with a few other studies.

Time: 8267.97

A few others have come in a little bit lower

Time: 8269.77

at somewhere like 13% to 14%,

Time: 8271.747

and a few have come in a little bit higher,

Time: 8273.34

but the average of 15% is both striking and shocking,

Time: 8277.42

so I don't know how to make the message more clear.

Time: 8279.4

I hope that is clear.

Time: 8280.6

Please do not use any cannabis, THC

Time: 8284.778

or related things including CBD, smoked or edible

Time: 8289.36

if you're pregnant, lactating, et cetera.

Time: 8292.9

Now we are at the point where we need to consider

Time: 8295.27

some of the negative health effects of cannabis

Time: 8297.16

that have been well documented in peer-reviewed studies.

Time: 8299.59

And before I do this,

Time: 8300.94

I want to return to a point that I made earlier,

Time: 8302.68

which is that nothing I am about to say

Time: 8305.41

relates directly to issues of legality.

Time: 8308.14

If we consider alcohol, for instance,

Time: 8310.48

alcohol is legal in most areas of the world.

Time: 8312.94

It's certainly legal in the US,

Time: 8314.83

and yet there's an age limit for its use.

Time: 8317.98

Typically, it's not available to people

Time: 8319.96

until they're 21 or older.

Time: 8321.7

It's not to say that certain people don't use it

Time: 8323.26

before age 21, but it's not legal.

Time: 8326.98

It is illegal to buy or possess alcohol,

Time: 8330.13

consume alcohol before age 21, and I think with good reason,

Time: 8333.46

because the brain is still developing.

Time: 8336.01

Likewise, we can have a informed discussion about cannabis

Time: 8341.265

and its various components

Time: 8343.179

that can fully acknowledge the reality,

Time: 8346.75

which is that one of the major harms of cannabis in the past

Time: 8351.7

has been the legal ramifications of cannabis being illegal.

Time: 8355.498

That's a statement that is no longer controversial,

Time: 8359.02

and this is not a discussion

Time: 8360.31

about legalization or non legalization.

Time: 8362.32

If you look to the scientific literature,

Time: 8364.27

the epidemiological literature,

Time: 8366.73

there are wonderful data out of Carleton University

Time: 8369.34

and elsewhere in Canada showing that

Time: 8372.022

many of the negative effects of marijuana and THC

Time: 8377.8

are due to the criminal justice system, itself,

Time: 8381.13

that is the creation of illicit drug businesses,

Time: 8385.63

the creation of organized crime,

Time: 8387.82

the creation of a number of different features

Time: 8390.25

related to the illegality of cannabis.

Time: 8394.24

And again, this isn't the topic of today's episode,

Time: 8397.33

but that should be acknowledged.

Time: 8399.25

And at the same time, we need to acknowledge

Time: 8401.35

that when a compound, a drug or whatever you want to call it

Time: 8405.7

becomes legal, there's a tendency to assume

Time: 8409

that it's safe and safe for everybody.

Time: 8411.25

And with respect to cannabis and THC and perhaps even CBD,

Time: 8415.87

but certainly for THC and cannabis that's smoked or vaped

Time: 8420.82

or consumed in edible form, that is simply not the case.

Time: 8424.78

There are clear data pointing to negative health effects

Time: 8428.47

of cannabis use and THC use, which again, is not to say

Time: 8431.83

that there are not positive effects

Time: 8433.87

on mood, anxiety, pain relief, et cetera.

Time: 8436.06

Those are out there and they exist,

Time: 8437.53

and we will mention some of those of course,

Time: 8439.24

and we've talked about some of those,

Time: 8440.83

creativity for instance, et cetera.

Time: 8442.93

But if we do not acknowledge the negative health effects

Time: 8446.32

that are documented in the literature,

Time: 8448.33

then we are overlooking some very important data,

Time: 8451.57

especially as it relates to the development of psychosis

Time: 8454.99

in certain individuals.

Time: 8457

So, with that said, there are very strong data,

Time: 8461.23

and I will provide links to these resources,

Time: 8463.3

pointing to the fact that for people

Time: 8464.86

who are chronic users of cannabis,

Time: 8467.23

that is using it twice a week or more,

Time: 8469.75

that over time, their levels of anxiety actually increase,

Time: 8473.53

and this is true even for individuals

Time: 8475.6

that are using strains of cannabis,

Time: 8477.22

that while under the influence of cannabis, reduce anxiety.

Time: 8481.51

Over time, meaning over the course of 12 or more months,

Time: 8486.106

there is a well-documented effect of the anxiety relief

Time: 8491.83

that cannabis and THC initially brought,

Time: 8495.25

being less and less potent.

Time: 8496.87

That is people need to smoke more of it or ingest more THC

Time: 8501.34

in order to achieve the same level of anxiety relief,

Time: 8504.46

and in some cases, a switch from anxiety relief

Time: 8508.03

to increase in anxiety,

Time: 8510.13

and again, that's increase in anxiety,

Time: 8512.44

not just when the drug is not being consumed,

Time: 8515.92

but also while under the influence of the drug.

Time: 8518.65

Why would that be?

Time: 8519.94

We have to go back to our understanding of the CB1 receptor

Time: 8523.96

and the potency with which THC binds to that CB1 receptor.

Time: 8529.3

When THC is brought into the system over and over again,

Time: 8533.68

meaning twice a week or more,

Time: 8536.02

the binding of THC, that CB1 receptor,

Time: 8539.35

eventually causes a habituation or attenuation

Time: 8543.52

of the entire process of binding the receptor

Time: 8546.79

and creating the psychoactive effects.

Time: 8548.71

So initially it creates anxiety relief,

Time: 8550.78

but over time, the affinity for the receptor doesn't change,

Time: 8555.13

meaning it can still park in that slot

Time: 8556.63

with a lot of affinity, a lot of strength,

Time: 8559.39

but there are fewer receptors available,

Time: 8563.14

and then the signaling that's downstream of those receptors

Time: 8566.56

becomes less and less robust.

Time: 8568.75

Now this is a topic we didn't get into

Time: 8570.85

in too much detail today, because I didn't want to include

Time: 8573.58

even more biological detail, but the CB1 receptor

Time: 8576.91

is a so-called G protein-coupled receptor.

Time: 8579.842

That's a mouthful, but a G protein-coupled receptor

Time: 8582.7

basically is like a bucket brigade.

Time: 8584.83

So while some receptors in the brain and body

Time: 8586.66

are such that when something, a chemical binds to them,

Time: 8589.99

that receptor has a direct action,

Time: 8591.7

like it opens and allows stuff to rush into the cell,

Time: 8594.1

increases the excitability of the cell,

Time: 8596.32

so called fast effects,

Time: 8598.06

these G protein-coupled receptors,

Time: 8600.4

and CB1 is a G protein-coupled receptor,

Time: 8603.61

they are more like a bucket brigade

Time: 8605.05

where they kick off a process through one molecule

Time: 8608.35

that then is handed off to another molecule

Time: 8610.78

that then is handed off to another molecule.

Time: 8612.88

It's a long chain or cascade of events.

Time: 8616.21

Those long chains or cascades of events

Time: 8618.7

have a lot of opportunity for regulation, for adjustment.

Time: 8622.45

Receptor systems in the brain and body,

Time: 8624.13

especially receptor systems like the cannabinoid system

Time: 8626.44

that are used to being tickled, not punched,

Time: 8629.62

tickled by endogenous cannabinoids,

Time: 8631.39

every once in a while some binds, has an effect,

Time: 8633.389

but certainly not bound with incredible potency

Time: 8638.14

and over and over again as they are

Time: 8639.61

when THC is coming into the system.

Time: 8641.56

Well those systems eventually, over time,

Time: 8643.18

they adjust themselves so that the body

Time: 8646.237

and those cells can achieve so-called homeostasis.

Time: 8649.39

So when people are using THC more than twice a week,

Time: 8653.77

what ends up happening is those G protein-coupled receptors

Time: 8656.29

in the downstream signaling mechanisms

Time: 8658.03

start to adjust themselves,

Time: 8659.5

and it requires more and more drug,

Time: 8663.34

so either higher dosages or more frequent use,

Time: 8667

and a lot of the positive effects,

Time: 8669.43

the so-called decrease in anxiety,

Time: 8670.93

increased focus, increased creativity,

Time: 8672.7

some of that starts to wane, it starts to dissipate,

Time: 8675.22

and people wonder why they have to use so much cannabis

Time: 8677.86

just to achieve a fraction of the effect

Time: 8680.47

that they used to be able to achieve with even a lower dose.

Time: 8684.58

So anxiety is getting worse over time,

Time: 8686.71

and that's anxiety during the drug use

Time: 8689.26

and outside of the drug use.

Time: 8691.18

Some people work around that or try to work around that

Time: 8694.99

by using varying strains of cannabis

Time: 8697.96

or changing the pattern of delivery from smoking to vaping

Time: 8701.65

or from vaping to edible and from edible to transdermal.

Time: 8704.77

Anyway, they go through a lot of gymnastics

Time: 8706.75

and writhing and seeking,

Time: 8709.9

but nonetheless, anxiety increases over time.

Time: 8712.87

Also, it's very clear that depression increases over time

Time: 8717.46

and especially, this is surprising to me,

Time: 8719.65

but especially for individuals that were not depressed

Time: 8722.77

at the the outset of their use.

Time: 8724.3

In other words, they didn't start using cannabis

Time: 8725.89

because they were depressed,

Time: 8727.51

but rather the depression starts to emerge

Time: 8730.69

as a consequence of the cannabis and THC use.

Time: 8734.35

So that's serious, in fact, we now know,

Time: 8737.8

based on really solid epidemiological evidence,

Time: 8740.26

that depression is not a strong predictor

Time: 8743.05

of seeking out cannabis.

Time: 8745.48

It doesn't drive terribly many people

Time: 8748.12

to seek out cannabis use,

Time: 8750.04

but cannabis use, itself, makes people four times likelier

Time: 8754.48

to develop a chronic major depression.

Time: 8757.63

So anxiety is increasing, depression is increasing,

Time: 8761.65

and this turns out to be especially relevant

Time: 8765.01

and important to young people.

Time: 8766.84

Why do I say that?

Time: 8767.77

Well, if you look at the data,

Time: 8769.36

and again, I think some of the strongest data

Time: 8771.52

are data to come out of the Canadian system.

Time: 8773.92

They've done some really beautiful controlled studies.

Time: 8775.96

I really hope to invite some of the people

Time: 8778.42

who arranged and ran those studies

Time: 8780.7

as guests onto the Huberman Lab Podcast.

Time: 8782.86

But if you look at the data out of Canada,

Time: 8785.59

or you look at some of the data

Time: 8786.61

out of Northern Europe and the US,

Time: 8788.41

what you find is that the probability

Time: 8791.17

that somebody will use cannabis

Time: 8793.327

and then go on to use it chronically,

Time: 8796

correlates very strongly with age.

Time: 8797.77

So for instance, some of the highest degree of cannabis use

Time: 8800.86

is among individuals 16 to 24 years old.

Time: 8804.296

In fact, in individuals who are 16 to 24 years old,

Time: 8808.42

and in particular, in students and people who are working,

Time: 8812.68

surprising, more than in unemployed populations,

Time: 8816.19

being young, 16 to 24, at least to me that's young,

Time: 8819.25

and being a student or working doubles the likelihood

Time: 8823.72

that somebody is going to use cannabis on a regular basis,

Time: 8826.45

twice or more per week.

Time: 8828.64

The typical age of initiating cannabis use nowadays

Time: 8831.16

is about 19 years old, so 18.7,

Time: 8834.79

and about 20% of people in that age bracket,

Time: 8838.42

of 16 to 24 years old, are using cannabis daily,

Time: 8842.02

either by vaping, by smoking or by edible.

Time: 8844.9

That's an enormous number, at least by my read.

Time: 8847.18

It's an enormous number,

Time: 8848.38

and here's why it's of really serious concern.

Time: 8852.1

During the ages of 16 to 24,

Time: 8855.38

the cannabinoid receptors are still available.

Time: 8858.82

They are not being as strongly driven

Time: 8860.8

by endogenous cannabinoids,

Time: 8862.66

but by ingestion of THC and/or CBD,

Time: 8867.94

there are downstream effects

Time: 8869.38

on the signaling within those cells

Time: 8871.36

that all the data point to creating a much,

Time: 8876.55

much higher likelihood of developing major depression,

Time: 8880.72

severe anxiety or psychosis at later ages.

Time: 8884.68

So to be very clear, cannabis use,

Time: 8886.75

between the ages of 16 to 24, in both males and females

Time: 8891.37

is increasing anxiety, increasing depression

Time: 8894.52

in the immediate years and within the one year's time or so,

Time: 8897.49

so much so that people are using the cannabis ongoing

Time: 8901.18

in an attempt to reduce that anxiety

Time: 8904.12

and reduce that depression,

Time: 8905.62

but in addition to that, the cannabis use,

Time: 8908.17

and because of the signaling mechanisms involved

Time: 8911.38

are predisposing those individuals

Time: 8913.87

to psychosis later in life.

Time: 8916.63

If you look at individuals who start using cannabis,

Time: 8918.97

even younger, age 14, or even as young as 12,

Time: 8923.71

the probability of psychosis later in life,

Time: 8926.08

in particular schizophrenic or schizophrenic-like episodes

Time: 8929.71

more than doubles, so this is of really serious concern,

Time: 8934.27

and this is completely aside

Time: 8936.52

from any so-called positive effects

Time: 8938.74

or beneficial effects of cannabis

Time: 8941.35

that people might derive from occasional use as adults,

Time: 8944.02

meaning people older than 25.

Time: 8946.03

So for the person who's older than 25,

Time: 8947.77

who eats an edible every once in a while,

Time: 8950.02

or who smokes cannabis every once in a while,

Time: 8952.21

and people love to make the argument,

Time: 8954.1

it's not as bad as alcohol,

Time: 8955.81

which frankly, is a terrible argument,

Time: 8957.55

because if you saw our episode on alcohol,

Time: 8959.104

[laughs] alcohol is pretty bad,

Time: 8960.512

but even so, it's just not a good argument.

Time: 8963.73

It's saying that something is good,

Time: 8965.17

because it's not as bad as something else

Time: 8967.09

is simply just not a good or valid argument,

Time: 8969.31

at least not biologically speaking.

Time: 8972.194

The use of cannabis in young populations

Time: 8975.25

is very strongly predisposing people to psychotic episodes,

Time: 8978.7

and we know the mechanism by which this occurs.

Time: 8982.72

This occurs by a thinning of the so-called gray matter,

Time: 8986.89

and it's called gray matter because with neurons,

Time: 8990.31

nerve cells, they have a so-called cell body,

Time: 8992.74

that's the part that contains the DNA

Time: 8994.69

and manufacturers all the neurotransmitters, et cetera.

Time: 8997.15

And those are shipped out to the other parts of the neuron

Time: 9000.12

that include the axon, the wires between axons,

Time: 9002.46

and those axons under the microscope,

Time: 9005.13

because they have a lot of fatty tissue around them,

Time: 9007.02

and this is healthy fatty tissue

Time: 9008.31

that allows electrical transmission to be fast,

Time: 9010.35

that fatty tissue, those portions of the cells,

Time: 9012.84

are called white matter,

Time: 9013.95

so you have gray matter and white matter.

Time: 9015.6

Gray matter are the so-called cell bodies

Time: 9017.4

where the DNA and all the stuff is manufactured.

Time: 9019.71

White matter or the axons or the wires

Time: 9023.334

through which all the key components are shipped out

Time: 9026.34

to the synapse, et cetera.

Time: 9029.19

Wonderful data and I do say wonderful,

Time: 9031.41

because it is part of a large scale consortium,

Time: 9033.78

and we will provide a link to the paper.

Time: 9035.1

This was published in "Translational Psychiatry"

Time: 9037.74

just this year, point to the fact

Time: 9040.95

that adolescent cannabis use accelerates the thinning

Time: 9045.24

of the prefrontal cortex and the gray matter in particular.

Time: 9047.94

So what this means is, while during normal development,

Time: 9051.6

the gray matter, the prefrontal cortex

Time: 9053.88

and all the cells there are indeed intended,

Time: 9056.28

it's a normal process for it to thicken

Time: 9058.47

and then thin a little bit as connections are adjusted

Time: 9062.58

and people learn and mature and grow up,

Time: 9064.65

this is part of the normal healthy maturation process,

Time: 9067.23

independent of cannabis use.

Time: 9069.84

When kids, 'cause these really are kids, use cannabis,

Time: 9073.86

and it doesn't matter the mode of cannabis delivery,

Time: 9075.9

whether or not it's vaping or smoking or edible,

Time: 9078.39

that gray matter thins at a much, much greater rate.

Time: 9081.57

And the reason I like this paper published

Time: 9083.25

in "Translational Psychiatry" this year so much

Time: 9086.43

is that they link the amount of cannabis use,

Time: 9089.55

heavy, moderate, light or no cannabis use,

Time: 9092.79

to the rate of prefrontal cortical thinning,

Time: 9095.52

and it's absolutely clear from these data

Time: 9098.52

that the more often young people,

Time: 9101.55

meaning individuals between the age of 14 and 25,

Time: 9104.76

the more often they consume or smoke or vape cannabis,

Time: 9108.84

the faster and the more extreme that cortical thinning is.

Time: 9112.29

And the cortical thinning is occurring

Time: 9113.67

in exactly the area of the brain

Time: 9115.11

that's involved in planning, in control over one's emotions,

Time: 9118.95

in reflexes, in organizing one's life

Time: 9123.18

in a number of different ways,

Time: 9124.02

anywhere from cleaning one's room, literally,

Time: 9126.69

knowing what goes where,

Time: 9128.13

to making plans that extend out through the day,

Time: 9130.74

through the week, through a year,

Time: 9132.18

essentially becoming a functional human being

Time: 9134.07

involves using your prefrontal cortex

Time: 9136.02

in a variety of different contexts

Time: 9137.55

and different time domains, the time domain of an hour,

Time: 9140.52

the time domain of a day.

Time: 9141.87

Making plans and being able to execute plans

Time: 9145.05

is fundamental to being a healthy human being,

Time: 9147

and it's absolutely clear from these data

Time: 9149.1

that the more cannabis one uses,

Time: 9152.82

the more impaired those neural circuits are.

Time: 9155.43

There's simply no other way to to view these data.

Time: 9158.85

In fact, so much so, that even small amounts of cannabis use

Time: 9162.48

are associated with rates of cortical thinning

Time: 9164.61

and degrees of cortical thinning that are really detrimental

Time: 9167.67

and concerning for normal cognitive processes.

Time: 9171.24

If you were somebody who smoked marijuana

Time: 9174.21

or consumed cannabis in any form or another

Time: 9177.18

during adolescence, does that mean

Time: 9179.82

that your prefrontal cortex can never be rescued,

Time: 9182.04

that it can't come back?

Time: 9183.81

Well, the short answer is,

Time: 9185.31

it probably can be rescued to some degree.

Time: 9187.41

It will depend on how much cannabis you were using

Time: 9190.98

and how often and what strains of cannabis, et cetera.

Time: 9194.94

There's really no traveling back in time,

Time: 9196.68

as my graduate advisor used to say.

Time: 9198.48

Time machines are broken.

Time: 9200.07

At least for now, we don't have time machines.

Time: 9201.51

So all you can really do is try and emphasize,

Time: 9204.75

first of all, quitting cannabis in any form

Time: 9208.049

and focusing on behaviors that emphasize endothelial cell

Time: 9213.63

blood flow health to the brain,

Time: 9215.73

so that would be cardiovascular exercise,

Time: 9218.76

adequate nutrition, not smoking nicotine,

Time: 9221.52

and there are a number of other things that one can do.

Time: 9223.89

We will do an entire episode

Time: 9225.06

all about trying to reverse the effects of cannabis

Time: 9228.99

and other drug use during adolescence.

Time: 9230.85

We don't have time to do a deep dive on that right now,

Time: 9232.98

but all the things that standardize and promote health,

Time: 9236.039

adequate sleep, good social connection,

Time: 9239.313

regular cardiovascular and weight training exercise,

Time: 9243.51

healthy nutrition, and what that represents to you,

Time: 9245.85

healthy metabolic function and weight, et cetera,

Time: 9248.1

those are all going to facilitate some recovery

Time: 9251.19

of brain function, in particular,

Time: 9253.05

prefrontal cortical function,

Time: 9254.7

by way of all the positive effects

Time: 9256.14

that those behaviors and choices have.

Time: 9259.2

But with that said, if you are in the age bracket

Time: 9262.29

that I've been referring to,

Time: 9263.31

this 14 to 25 year old age bracket,

Time: 9265.74

and you are a occasional even or chronic cannabis user,

Time: 9270.63

you should be very, very careful and concerned

Time: 9274.08

about the long-term effects

Time: 9275.46

that that could potentially have.

Time: 9276.99

That statement is bolstered by another statistic,

Time: 9279.42

which is that unlike a lot of other drugs,

Time: 9283.92

the rate of cannabis use is strongly related

Time: 9287.64

to how dangerous people perceive cannabis to be.

Time: 9292.242

Now, that might seem obvious, on the one hand,

Time: 9294.78

if you think something is very, very dangerous,

Time: 9297.3

you would expect that the probability

Time: 9298.89

that somebody would use it would be very, very low,

Time: 9301.05

and if they think something is safe,

Time: 9302.13

the probability would be high.

Time: 9304.56

But that isn't necessarily the case.

Time: 9306.66

If you think about it, cannabis is a unique instance

Time: 9310.53

in which nowadays we are hearing,

Time: 9312.96

yes, it's becoming legal in a number of areas,

Time: 9315.39

and we talked earlier about why that's probably a good thing

Time: 9317.64

in most circumstances,

Time: 9319.32

but that we aren't just hearing that cannabis is safe,

Time: 9322.38

or it's not just being implied that cannabis is safer,

Time: 9326.01

but many more people are talking

Time: 9328.11

about the positive effects of cannabis

Time: 9330.491

without a lot of discussion

Time: 9332.4

about the negative effects of cannabis.

Time: 9334.38

And I realize that saying this

Time: 9335.88

is going to upset some people out there,

Time: 9337.38

because I know that there are a number of people

Time: 9338.79

who fought very hard for the legalization process,

Time: 9341.13

and I want to acknowledge that.

Time: 9342.93

I also want to acknowledge the many known positive effects

Time: 9347.73

of cannabis in adults with very occasional use,

Time: 9352.56

provided it is delivered safely and in the safe context

Time: 9357.12

and setting and with legality.

Time: 9359.58

That is entirely distinct from the issue

Time: 9362.04

of whether or not cannabis is safe

Time: 9363.51

for the developing brain and body.

Time: 9365.76

Again, I'm not demonizing anybody for using cannabis,

Time: 9369.211

but I want to make the point very simply and very directly.

Time: 9372.78

It is far and away a different circumstance for the brain

Time: 9378.27

for an individual to be 25 years or older

Time: 9381.96

and using cannabis in whatever form,

Time: 9385.26

occasionally or maybe even frequently,

Time: 9387.78

than it is for a young person, aged 14 to 25,

Time: 9393.09

to be using cannabis, either by smoking or vaping

Time: 9396.231

or by edible or any other form, on the brain and body.

Time: 9401.28

It's absolutely clear that the brain continues to develop

Time: 9404.28

at least until age 25, and that a huge number of systems

Time: 9408

related to mood regulation, so-called executive function,

Time: 9411.33

the ability to organize one's thoughts,

Time: 9413.07

plan and execute plans,

Time: 9415.53

essentially to become a functional human being,

Time: 9418.11

that's one portion of becoming a functional human being,

Time: 9420.54

but certainly an essential one.

Time: 9422.67

All of that relies on the fine tuning

Time: 9425.04

of this neural circuitry

Time: 9426.416

that we've been talking about up until now,

Time: 9429.72

and it's abundantly clear that cannabis

Time: 9433.59

and THC in particular, dramatically disrupt those processes.

Time: 9440.22

So if this isn't clear enough, just from my statements,

Time: 9443.97

I'd like to point to a particular paper.

Time: 9446.04

This is one of the more impactful papers

Time: 9447.66

in this area in recent years.

Time: 9449.67

This is a paper published in "Lancet Psychiatry" in 2022.

Time: 9453.72

Title is "Association of Cannabis Potency

Time: 9456.667

"with Mental Ill Health and Addiction, A Systematic Review."

Time: 9460.39

There are a number of very important points

Time: 9461.97

in this very fine paper.

Time: 9463.717

"Lancet Psychiatry" is one of the premier

Time: 9466.26

medical journals out there,

Time: 9468.54

and they evaluated a huge number of studies.

Time: 9471.45

They actually looked at more than 4,000 studies.

Time: 9474.45

They selected the ones that were only the most rigorous

Time: 9477.6

in terms of study design and analysis

Time: 9480.48

and rigor of conclusions, and they looked at how early use

Time: 9485.43

of cannabis impacted later probability of development

Time: 9489.96

of psychosis and other psychiatric conditions,

Time: 9492.96

and the takeaways from this study are very clear.

Time: 9496.65

First of all, chronic cannabis use,

Time: 9499.86

so more than twice per week, has consistently

Time: 9502.41

been associated with mental health disorders.

Time: 9504.39

I'm pulling some phrases directly from the paper.

Time: 9506.97

Heavy cannabis use, meaning cannabis use

Time: 9510.42

more frequent than twice per week,

Time: 9512.836

has been associated with four times the risk

Time: 9515.76

of psychosis later in life, in particular,

Time: 9517.89

schizophrenia and bipolar-like episodes.

Time: 9520.74

Now, we've done an episode on bipolar disorder.

Time: 9523.119

It's also called bipolar depression.

Time: 9524.7

We have not yet done one on schizophrenia,

Time: 9526.26

but both bipolar disorder and schizophrenia

Time: 9528.84

have a very, very strong genetic component.

Time: 9531.9

There's a 30, three-zero, 30 times greater likelihood

Time: 9535.38

that you'll have bipolar disorder

Time: 9536.61

if you have a first relative who has bipolar disorder.

Time: 9539.46

And then, it's also the case that using cannabis,

Time: 9543.03

especially during adolescents and the teen years,

Time: 9545.79

and up until age 25,

Time: 9547.47

create a four times greater risk of psychosis

Time: 9550.469

for those that have a predisposition

Time: 9552.6

to bipolar disorder and/or schizophrenia.

Time: 9555.9

Now, I don't hear very much about this in the media.

Time: 9558.72

This paper got some attention and then it got swept away.

Time: 9562.83

I don't think that was an intentional sweeping way.

Time: 9564.48

There's just a lot of events in the world as you well know.

Time: 9567.81

But I think it's a particularly important set of findings,

Time: 9571.2

because obviously, in looking at so many studies,

Time: 9574.98

it distills out the strongest findings that are out there

Time: 9577.32

and really pulls the consistent messages

Time: 9580.62

that are arriving from all these different studies.

Time: 9582.72

And as they point out, and again, I'm paraphrasing here,

Time: 9585.671

this is the first systematic review

Time: 9587.61

of the association of cannabis potency,

Time: 9590.85

and all of the data point to a very clear conclusion,

Time: 9593.34

which is the more potent the THC concentration,

Time: 9598.14

the higher probability of developing psychosis

Time: 9600.69

or a major depressive episode

Time: 9602.22

or a major anxiety disorder later in life.

Time: 9604.65

That should be of particular concern, because we know,

Time: 9608.85

we are absolutely clear about the fact

Time: 9611.31

that with the advent of all these new strains of cannabis,

Time: 9614.76

and with the engineering and availability of cannabis

Time: 9619.56

at much higher potency, meaning THC potency,

Time: 9624.09

the risk of psychosis is going up and up

Time: 9627

and is likely to continue going up unless something is done

Time: 9629.61

to reduce the frequency of cannabis use to zero, ideally,

Time: 9636.12

or to very low frequency, very low potency

Time: 9639.21

in adolescence and teens and people age 25 or younger.

Time: 9643.65

I know a lot of people don't want to hear this message,

Time: 9645.9

because first of all, it's alarming,

Time: 9647.22

and second of all, as I mentioned earlier,

Time: 9649.83

the statistics tell us that the greatest number of people

Time: 9653.19

that are starting to use cannabis

Time: 9654.54

are in the age bracket of 16 to 24.

Time: 9658.23

Many of them are functional in other areas of life.

Time: 9660.39

They're students, they are employed, et cetera.

Time: 9663.78

But when you couple that with the fact

Time: 9665.88

that the most frequent adopters of cannabis use

Time: 9668.58

are in this age bracket of 16 to 24,

Time: 9671.31

they're twice as likely to use as other individuals

Time: 9674.67

or to start using cannabis as are other individuals.

Time: 9677.52

Plus, the general perception out there,

Time: 9679.53

because of the way that cannabis is discussed

Time: 9681.9

in the media and by sports figures and by celebrities

Time: 9684.81

and by politicians, et cetera,

Time: 9687.27

that it's not as bad as alcohol and maybe not that bad

Time: 9690.96

and maybe even has health benefits,

Time: 9693.63

then you're essentially setting up a system

Time: 9695.04

where young people are far more likely

Time: 9697.08

to adopt and continue cannabis use

Time: 9699.178

without realizing these serious health consequences

Time: 9702.69

that await them later.

Time: 9705.3

With all of that said, I, of course,

Time: 9707.79

again want to acknowledge that there have been

Time: 9711.51

well-demonstrated effects of cannabis for reducing pain,

Time: 9716.94

in particular in chemotherapy and in the context

Time: 9720.18

of reducing nausea in people suffering

Time: 9723

from cancer or chemotherapy.

Time: 9724.83

There is a well-known effect

Time: 9727.133

that one can generally point to as positive,

Time: 9730.02

using cannabis for things like glaucoma,

Time: 9733.44

for lowering intraocular pressure

Time: 9735.72

and offsetting the loss of neurons

Time: 9737.22

that would lead to blindness,

Time: 9738.27

although there are other tools, of course,

Time: 9739.68

that don't involve cannabis use

Time: 9741.27

that can accomplish that as well,

Time: 9743.61

so called intraocular pressure lowering drugs or drops.

Time: 9748.47

There is a list of probably a dozen or more psychological

Time: 9754.02

and bodily ailments that can be aided by cannabis use,

Time: 9757.64

in particular edible cannabis use of particular strains.

Time: 9762.15

I, of course, am going to address each

Time: 9764.25

and every one of those in episodes where I'm talking,

Time: 9767.55

for instance, about eye disease or about chronic pain.

Time: 9771.09

I am in no way, shape or form

Time: 9772.86

trying to rob the incredible efforts of the laboratories

Time: 9776.58

and people that have worked very hard

Time: 9778.256

to study and establish the valid uses of cannabis

Time: 9782.73

for treating various ailments

Time: 9784.35

and that continue to study cannabis in order to try

Time: 9787.2

and ameliorate the symptoms of different ailments.

Time: 9790.493

But today, I really wanted

Time: 9791.91

to emphasize the biology of cannabis,

Time: 9795

some of the often discussed effects,

Time: 9798.24

I guess one could call them positive effects,

Time: 9799.71

things like enhanced creativity

Time: 9800.97

and really point to the nuance and actually the divergence

Time: 9803.677

of people who take cannabis and some experience

Time: 9807.48

heightened levels of creativity and some do not.

Time: 9809.55

Some people experience heightened levels of sexual arousal

Time: 9813.54

and some people experience the exact opposite,

Time: 9816.42

and so on and so forth,

Time: 9817.89

rather than focus on all the potential positive

Time: 9820.68

and emerging positive data about cannabis

Time: 9824.1

in different medical contexts.

Time: 9825.78

And at the same time, I strongly feel that it's important

Time: 9828.51

to acknowledge the shocking,

Time: 9831.436

because there's really no other way to describe it,

Time: 9834.33

the shocking effects of cannabis use on the developing fetus

Time: 9838.86

and the fact that so many pregnant

Time: 9841.08

and lactating mothers are using cannabis.

Time: 9843.24

I mean, that number 15% still has me dizzy with disbelief,

Time: 9847.53

and yet we need to acknowledge this

Time: 9848.85

and address this immediately.

Time: 9851.37

And I think it's vital to understand that cannabis use

Time: 9855.33

through any delivery mechanism,

Time: 9859.02

smoking or vaping or edible or otherwise,

Time: 9862.14

is very, very concerning,

Time: 9864.72

in fact, dangerous to the developing brain,

Time: 9866.88

certainly for the fetal brain and for the baby brain,

Time: 9870.196

but also for the adolescent brain

Time: 9872.64

and for the teen and young adult brain,

Time: 9875.61

not just because of the effects

Time: 9876.84

that it can have in the immediate term,

Time: 9878.31

those slow creeping increases in anxiety and depression,

Time: 9881.46

brought on by cannabis use,

Time: 9883.77

but also the time release, if you will,

Time: 9887.586

on the development of psychosis and other types

Time: 9891.12

of major psychiatric disorders later in life.

Time: 9894.27

I acknowledge we've covered a lot of ground today,

Time: 9896.46

and yet there's still far more ground

Time: 9898.23

that we could have covered

Time: 9899.16

and that we will indeed cover in future episodes.

Time: 9902.85

Nevertheless, if you are learning from

Time: 9905.307

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Time: 9906.99

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Time: 10045.65

So once again, thank you for joining me

Time: 10047.12

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Time: 10049.91

And as always, thank you for your interest in science.

Time: 10053.07

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