Dr. Diego Bohórquez: The Science of Your Gut Sense & the Gut-Brain Axis

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welcome to the huberman Lab podcast

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where we discuss science and

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science-based tools for everyday

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[Music]

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life I'm Andrew huberman and I'm a

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professor of neurobiology and

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Opthalmology at Stanford School of

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Medicine my guest today is Dr Diego

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borquez Dr Diego borquez is a professor

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of medicine and neurobiology at Duke

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University he did his training in

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gastrointestinal physiology and

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nutrition and later neuroscience and by

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combining that unique training and EXP

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expertise he is considered a Pioneer and

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leader in so-called gut sensing or the

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gut brain axis now when most people hear

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the words gut brain axis they

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immediately think of the so-called

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microbiome which is extremely important

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but that is not the topic of Dr borquez

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expertise Dr borz focuses on the actual

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sensing that occurs within one's gut

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just as one would sense light with their

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eyes or sound waves with their ears for

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hearing our gut contains receptors that

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respond to specific components of food

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including amino acids fats sugars and

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other aspects of food including

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temperature acidity and other

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micronutrients that are contained in

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food that give our gut the clear picture

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of what is happening at the level of the

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types and qualities of food that we

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ingest and then communicate that below

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our conscious detection to our brain in

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order to drive specific patterns of

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thinking emotion and behavior and of

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course everybody has heard of our

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so-called gut sense or our ability to

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believe or feel certain things based on

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perceptions that are below or somehow

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different from conventional language

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today Dr borquez teaches us about all

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aspects of gut sensing how it occurs at

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the level of specific neurons and neural

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circuits how the brain responds to that

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how specific foods and components of

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food impact not just our feeling of

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digestion or feeling good or bad about

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what we ate but indeed how we feel

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overall how safe we feel how excited we

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feel whether or not we feel depressed or

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sad angry or happy today's discussion I

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promise you is unique among all

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discussions of neuroscience at least

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that I've heard previously in that it

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combines two seemingly disparate Fields

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nutrition and Neuroscience indeed

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today's discussion gets into how

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different foods and food combinations

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impact how we feel and what We crave and

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what we tend to avoid we also get to

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hear the absolutely extraordinary story

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of Dr borz upbringing in the Amazon

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jungle and how his knowledge and

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intuition about plants has influenced

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His science and how the incredible

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science that his laboratory is doing

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relates to all of us and our ability to

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better tap into our gut sense before we

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begin I'd like to emphasize that this

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podcast is separate from my teaching and

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research roles at Stanford it is however

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part of my desire and effort to bring

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zero cost to Consumer information about

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Dr Diego borz Dr Diego

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borquez great to have you here thank you

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for uh having me

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Andrew I am super excited to learn from

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you today as I know everyone else is and

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if they don't realize why soon they will

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which is that you work on one of the

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more fascinating aspects of us which is

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our gut our gut

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sensing the gut brain axis which I think

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most people don't realize is nearby but

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separate from the so-called

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microbiome so we're not talking about

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the microbiome a very interesting and

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important topic of

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course but we are going to talk about

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this thing that we call our gut sense

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and how it impacts everything from our

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Cravings to our brain health and our

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cognition

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so once again welcome and I'll just want

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to kick things off by asking you to

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educate us explain you know what is this

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gut brain axis that we hear about and

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what's going on in our gut besides

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digestion well uh Andrew thank you so

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much for having me here uh thrilled to

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be here I knew that since we met a few

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years ago uh that we will have this

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ongoing conversation and a great

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conversation um the gut and the Brain

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you know people call it an axis because

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traditionally thought to be an IM

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imaginary line that was connected

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through hormones so since 1902 when uh

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the first hormone secretion was uh a

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reported by Bailey and Sterling uh

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um it was known that uh when we eat then

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hormones these molecules in the gut are

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released and then they will enter the

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bloodstream and then eventually will

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have a cause in distant

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organs uh and for the next 100 or so

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years the the the the field focus on the

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on the hormones and as a consequence

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there was no direct line of

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communication between the gut and the

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Brain but as often I I say you don't you

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don't say or we don't say the nose brain

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axis right like or the eye brain axis

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right uh and all of the organs are in

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sync working in sync so H in the gut

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there are also some sensory cells that

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are able to detect the outside world

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ER and then quickly communicate that

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information to the brain and I say the

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outside world because the gut is the

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only organ that passes throughout our

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body but it is still exposed to the

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outside if you think about it uh if you

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will swallow a marble it still has the

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chance to get out um please don't do

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that

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anybody but uh but is still exposed to

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the surface you're right I never thought

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about the gut as the organ that is in

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contact with the outside world unlike

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our heart which is not in direct contact

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with the outside world or our liver or

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our pancreas but the gut is the gut is

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uh and if you think about it it's just

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separated by uh some compartments that

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have all of these VVS you the epiglottis

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the uh gastropa gel Junction the pylorus

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The ilocal Junction the rectum so these

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are the the sequences of valves of

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Chambers with valves between them that

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food passes through air passes through

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and within each as I understand it there

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are different functions related to

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digestion but I think where you're

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taking us is that there are different

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modes of sensing what's coming through

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and signaling to the brain and other

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organs what's going on in the outside

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world by what's sensed coming through

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that passage is that correct that's

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correct and uh if we think about it uh

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um

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the when we swallow something literally

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we have to trust our gut perhaps that's

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why we use this phrase trust your gut

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right because after that there's not

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much that you can do at least in uh

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regular humans that you can do

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consciously

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to uh expel something that perhaps is

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poisonous or toxic right um it is the

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gut that has to make that distinction

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and then usually accommodate things for

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abortion or let them pass uh through

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digestion and then ultimately they will

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be secreted right so if you could

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describe for us the architecture that is

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the cells that respond to things in the

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gut and where they send that information

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and how they send that information what

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what is this thing that we call Gut

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sensing made up of what what's the parts

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list so the parts uh list uh has been

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evolving recently

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and while some of the elements we have

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known for for a while uh but in in

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general what we're talking about because

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is an external surface it is lined by a

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single layer of cells that are called

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epithelial cells and essentially these

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cells are exposed to the outside world

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but they also are like attached in like

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a little membrane and they are the ones

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that interface with the inside of the

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body so in the stomach we have an try

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toi a epithelium for instance that is uh

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thicker so it can survive digestion

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chemicals and other things like harsh

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environment and in the intestine we have

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a little bit more of a um uh more

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delicate uh epithelia layer and within

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this epithelia layer there are several

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different cell types and one of those is

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the so-called enteroendocrine cell to

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put it in more simple terms is a gut

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endocrine cell or a gut cell that

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releases hormones the term was coined in

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1938 by a German uh physician uh his

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name was Frederick

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fer and at that time it was a major

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advancement in our understanding of

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physiology because he came up with the

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idea that the organs were not only

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communicating to organs in fact there

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were cells within the organs that were

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communicating to other organs through

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the release of some of these endocrine

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factors these neuromodulators or these

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neuropep that we know as hormones and uh

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so he named uh the diffus endocrine

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system of the gut and then he came up

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with his word enteroendocrine cell and

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these cells are dispar at a ratio of

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roughly speaking like 1 to 1,000

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epithelial uh cells throughout the

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digestive

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tract and we thought for the longest

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time that these cells were not

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connecting directly to the nervous

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system that they will release these

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neuromodulators and the neuromodulators

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through diffusion will act on receptors

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into some of the nerve Terminals and

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that is true that is a very well

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established uh system uh but in 2015 we

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made an observation that some of these

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cells anywhere from 1/3 to 2/3 of these

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cells it depends on like the type of a

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systems that you use to identify they

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were contacting directly the nervous

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system and that brought up a a a new

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dimension of how it is that the gut

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could be could be communicating to the

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brain because as you know in the brain

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the synapses are the ones that are most

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predominant however there there is a lot

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of neurom modulation from endocrine uh

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functions in the brain too so in the gut

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uh this was not well described there had

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been historically uh a few examples that

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these cells may be making synaptic

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contacts but they had not been

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studied and perhaps one of the main

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reasons why they hadn't being studied is

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because the the tools were not there and

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if you recall in in the um in 1990s uh

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with the advancement of green

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fluorescence protein as uh one of the

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main uh molecules to tag cells now all

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of a sudden there was a revolution in

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biology because you could identify the

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cells you can take them out you can do a

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a transcriptomic analysis to see what

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genes they express uh you could

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co-culture them you can modify their

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genome and then you can start to

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interrogate what is their contribution

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to the entire body I'll just interrupt

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you for a second just to make sure that

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I never else is on board so if I

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understand

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correctly it's long been known that

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there are cells that are in these layers

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of the gut in the intestine and it's

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long been appreciated that as food

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passes through these cells somehow can

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sense the chemical constituents of the

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of the food as it gets broken down and

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then release hormones into the

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bloodstream that could influence the

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brain those hormones could travel and

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influence things far away in fact um for

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those that don't know endocrine

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generally mean signaling at a distance

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between cells so between gut and brain

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or gut and liver it can also mean local

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effects so uh hormones endocrine effects

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can also be local

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but if I also understand you correctly

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it was only about 15 years ago when you

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mentioned green fluorescent protein we

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should probably just tell the Tale in a

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few sentences this is an amazing story

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in biology where if you've ever seen

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fluorescing

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jellyfish that's because they express a

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gene for so called Green fluorescent

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protein and biologists have hijacked

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that Gene sequence and put it into mice

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and now actually other organisms as well

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which allows you to see individual cells

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and cell types so these cells release

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hormones the hormones influence the

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brain and other organs and now I think

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you're going to tell us that they also

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are able to make direct communication

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lines with other organs as well

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correct uh so maybe here is feeling how

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it is that I I got into a starting the

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system and uh as you know between the

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90s and the early 2000s there was an

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explosion in tools to study uh the brain

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and neural circuitry and the connection

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of neurons and each one of the neurons

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because up until the 1980s um the the

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tools were were limited

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electrophysiology you know

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Behavior Uh but then not only we had a

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green fluorescence protein we we had

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optogenetics

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we had uh a rabies modified to be able

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to

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trace how it is the the neurons connect

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at one synapse which was a it was a

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dream I think that in fact that was the

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dream of Francis Creek when he was at

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the Suk he he talked about that having

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the way to control for those who don't

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know Crick one uh was a co-recipient to

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the Nobel Prize for the discovery of the

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structured DNA but then later in his

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career developed an obsession for

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neuroscience and yeah he daydreamed out

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loud about having tools to visualize

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individual Connections in the nervous

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system and as uh Diego is pointing out

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scientists have hijacked the rabies

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virus which hops between neurons labeled

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the rabies virus with Things That Glow

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fluorescent and in doing so we now

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understand a lot about what Crick

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dreamed for which was the ability to see

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different specific Connections in the

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nervous system yes uh so then you could

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isolate the cells and then you could do

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sequencing technology to see like what

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are the genes that the cells are

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expressing and then you can start to

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understand the makeup of the cells uh in

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2009 uh h cers a scientist u in the

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Netherlands uh did a beautiful

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experiment like he he discovered these

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factors that will trigger a receptor of

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the stem cells in the intestinal

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epithelium and will form literally a

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mini gut in a in a dish you know these

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cells will be all lined up and then they

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will have alumin and I remember like

Time: 1139.4

seeing some of these papers coming out

Time: 1141.679

uh when I was a PhD student and and I

Time: 1144.64

was already studying the gut so it was

Time: 1146.6

inspiring to see like all of the things

Time: 1148.84

that all of a sudden you could do right

Time: 1151.84

so when I began studying the cells um

Time: 1154.64

immediately by isolating the cells and

Time: 1157.4

simply observing the cells in the native

Time: 1161.52

tissue of these um m

Time: 1165.919

models it quickly became evident that

Time: 1168.76

some of the cells had a very peculiar

Time: 1172

Anatomy uh some of them had these very

Time: 1174.44

prominent arms at the base like like

Time: 1177.4

literally like um in the 16 Chapel uh

Time: 1180.52

Adam reaching out to to God right like

Time: 1182.6

with a hand uh the cells will have that

Time: 1185.96

type of anatomical H features and even

Time: 1189.08

ending with a little hand at the end of

Time: 1192.159

that arm uh and obviously I I

Time: 1195.039

immediately thought like why would a

Time: 1196.919

cell that it is supposed to react to

Time: 1200.679

food and release hormones into the

Time: 1204.039

bloodstream or just in the vicinity will

Time: 1206.32

invest so much energy into developing an

Time: 1210.039

arm right so then I started to look well

Time: 1212.919

perhaps it is because it's providing a

Time: 1214.44

bridge directly into the vasculature

Time: 1217.44

into the vessels to put the the hormones

Time: 1219.32

into the bloodstream right uh grown you

Time: 1222.039

know like a I couldn't find that that

Time: 1224.08

direct connection uh so then I started

Time: 1226.159

to study perhaps they were associated

Time: 1228.32

with nervous system and that's how uh we

Time: 1231.2

made some of the first observations that

Time: 1233.2

some of them uh with the arm uh or

Time: 1237.2

without the arm they will have a more

Time: 1239.44

intimate

Time: 1240.52

relationship with nerve

Time: 1243.08

fibers and that of course open up um a

Time: 1247.12

bunch of new

Time: 1248.799

questions and but the first things that

Time: 1251.28

the first thing that we had to do it was

Time: 1254.039

to come up with a name for this foot and

Time: 1257.96

it kind of became organic and I want to

Time: 1259.919

highlight this because I think that as

Time: 1261.64

we go through the discovery uh

Time: 1264.64

trajectory we don't realize the need to

Time: 1266.919

also engineer

Time: 1268.799

language how we go about language is we

Time: 1271.2

start to attach a words that we already

Time: 1273.76

knew and we start to put them together

Time: 1276.08

to describe something that new that

Time: 1278.12

we're observing right and I say this

Time: 1280.679

because at the very beginning uh with my

Time: 1282.559

mentor we will start to call these

Time: 1284

little feet first we call them axon

Time: 1287.2

which is like uh the for like the long

Time: 1289.96

extending branches of the neurons the

Time: 1291.64

main branches of the neurons so we will

Time: 1293.679

call them axon like because they look

Time: 1295.919

like a a baby

Time: 1297.76

axon but then we called them also like

Time: 1300.039

Pudo po because it was like a pot but it

Time: 1302.88

was

Time: 1303.84

Pudo uh and at some point we and it was

Time: 1306.559

coming from like some cells in the in

Time: 1308.88

the kidneys that they are called uh po

Time: 1313

podia or something like that so it was

Time: 1314.72

axon like pseudo like basal process to

Time: 1317.4

describe that it was on the base so at

Time: 1319.24

some point it became so long that we

Time: 1320.64

couldn't fit it in an abstract right so

Time: 1322.559

a bit of a mouthful so we began thinking

Time: 1325.08

about it and then eventually I came up

Time: 1326.84

with a term I thought like ah

Time: 1329.44

neurot um and I remember pitching it to

Time: 1332.48

my mentor and I said like let me let me

Time: 1334.2

think about the weekend and then on the

Time: 1335.72

on a Monday he came in and he said like

Time: 1337.36

you know it has a ring to it I think

Time: 1339.08

that we should use it but but

Time: 1340.96

essentially the the the thought was that

Time: 1343.799

if these cells are contacting then

Time: 1346.559

perhaps they are passing information

Time: 1348.559

directly onto the nervous system and

Time: 1351.76

that is very different than just

Time: 1354.24

spewing a

Time: 1356.76

neuromodulators in the vicinity and

Time: 1358.919

hoping that some of those catch the

Time: 1361.279

nervous system right and like I said

Time: 1363.44

while that is still exist and I think

Time: 1365.12

that is just like matter of space and

Time: 1368.4

time like they they modulate these

Time: 1370.72

terminals in a different space and time

Time: 1373.12

the hormones but the transmission uh the

Time: 1375.919

neurotransmission is directly and more

Time: 1378.12

precise in space and time could I just

Time: 1381.12

um interrupt for a moment please so

Time: 1383.88

hormone signaling endocrine signaling

Time: 1387.08

generally is slower than the forms of

Time: 1390.24

communication directly between neurons

Time: 1392.88

right um could be on the order of

Time: 1395.24

seconds sure but typically on the orders

Time: 1397.4

of minutes or hours uh whereas neural

Time: 1401.08

communication on the order of

Time: 1403.32

milliseconds correct so if I understand

Time: 1406.159

correctly these what you decide to

Time: 1408.559

called neurop pod cells and thank you

Time: 1410.24

for shortening the name um from the

Time: 1412.4

other description um line the gut are we

Time: 1416.84

talking about everything from esophagus

Time: 1419.039

down to the stomach to the intestine or

Time: 1422.559

is it just at the level of the stomach

Time: 1423.88

and intestine where where do they this

Time: 1426.279

is uh this is where the conversation

Time: 1428.44

becomes expansive because uh these

Time: 1432.2

neopods or cins of these neurop pods so

Time: 1435.08

these neurop pods are simply a

Time: 1436.679

specialized neuro epithelial cells

Time: 1439.36

meaning that are electrically excitable

Time: 1442.039

that they can discharge electricity but

Time: 1445

they are this type of cells are in every

Time: 1447.799

single epithelial cell epithelial layer

Time: 1450.799

of the body because that's how the body

Time: 1452.919

creates a representation of the world

Time: 1455.84

through sensor cells that are equipped

Time: 1458.48

to detect the outside world meaning that

Time: 1461.52

they can be exposed to fluctuations in

Time: 1463.48

temperature fluctuations in PH

Time: 1465.52

fluctuations in concentrations and then

Time: 1468.159

they quickly can generate a chemo

Time: 1471.36

electrical coat that they pass it onto

Time: 1473.36

the nervous system and then ultimately

Time: 1475.08

the brain integrates that and says like

Time: 1477.159

oh my belly is feeling good but I'm

Time: 1479.72

feeling cold in the skin right and that

Time: 1483.039

is thanks to all of these

Time: 1484.64

neuroepithelial cells that they are even

Time: 1486.44

in um tasting so to speak the uh the

Time: 1489.799

seru spinal fluid inside of the spinal

Time: 1492.48

cord and the ventricles they are inside

Time: 1494.64

of the the inner ears The Taste uh The

Time: 1497.159

Taste SPS so it is and in fact there's a

Time: 1500.96

beautiful book from the 70s uh from some

Time: 1503.72

Japanese scientists uh fuet Canon

Time: 1506.64

Kobayashi who uh called the cells Paran

Time: 1510.24

neurons and their whole concept is that

Time: 1512.88

there was not such a discrete

Time: 1515.08

distinction between an entire a neuron

Time: 1517.36

that lives inside of the brain or the

Time: 1518.84

central nervous system and a A

Time: 1521.799

neuroepithelial or a neuroendocrine cell

Time: 1524.279

that leaves exposed to the outside

Time: 1526.679

simply that there is a continuum of

Time: 1528.72

adaptation so the the organism can bring

Time: 1531.559

the information from outside inside into

Time: 1534.64

the uh body to be able to process it and

Time: 1537.12

then process it and then guide Behavior

Time: 1540.2

So based on the way you describe it we

Time: 1542.159

have these neurop pod cells that line

Time: 1544.919

our gut and we also have these similar

Time: 1549.6

cell types in the other organs of the

Time: 1551.44

body and these cells are responding to

Time: 1553.72

the chemical constituents of what we eat

Time: 1557.08

as the food is broken down

Time: 1558.919

also to the temperature of the

Time: 1560.919

environment to the

Time: 1563.159

pH the that is how relatively basic or

Time: 1567.32

acidic something is that we ate and

Time: 1570.76

presumably to other features in our

Time: 1572.72

environment as well and all of that

Time: 1574.96

information is activating these cells to

Time: 1577.799

some degree or another and then we're

Time: 1580.52

releasing hormones into our body as a

Time: 1582.399

consequence but also there's a direct

Time: 1584.52

line to the brain and we're not

Time: 1587.76

necessarily aware of all of this

Time: 1589.48

happening right I mean until you

Time: 1590.799

describe it I think most of us are have

Time: 1592.679

not been aware that this is happening

Time: 1594.48

and we probably shouldn't be aware you

Time: 1596.159

know like as I often say like um if you

Time: 1599.679

and I are having a conversation we

Time: 1601.52

probably shouldn't be aware of the

Time: 1603

macras and the spleen that is chasing

Time: 1604.84

this bacterium that got inside of the

Time: 1606.72

lettuce that we swallowed in at launch

Time: 1608.96

right like just do your thing so we can

Time: 1610.799

keep communicating right except maybe

Time: 1613.2

don't eat more of that lettuce right

Time: 1615.6

which is

Time: 1616.679

the okay so you discovered these

Time: 1625.6

neuropodial to selectively label them

Time: 1628.96

what did that reveal about their

Time: 1631.2

connectivity with you're referring to it

Time: 1633.44

as the nervous system which I love

Time: 1634.84

because a resounding theme on this

Time: 1636.64

podcast as I always say you know brain

Time: 1638.039

and spinal cord and all the connections

Time: 1639.72

to the body and back again is the

Time: 1641.799

nervous system but what what did you

Time: 1643.72

discover in terms of the connections

Time: 1645.08

with the brain proper here is where the

Time: 1647.799

tools started to make a a big difference

Time: 1650.52

you know all of the sudden you could see

Time: 1653.2

the resolution of a receptor inside of a

Time: 1655.76

cell using certain type of microscopes

Time: 1658.039

right so I remember that one of the

Time: 1660.08

first questions that I will always get

Time: 1662.519

drill on you know how these uh laugh

Time: 1665.399

meetings can get intense right like when

Time: 1667.24

I will bring data and showing just very

Time: 1669.44

simple um imunohistochemistry meaning

Time: 1672.24

labeling to see how the cells were

Time: 1674.2

interacting with uh the nervous

Time: 1676.279

system um as and I will show some of the

Time: 1680.08

images then uh the other scientists will

Time: 1682.6

say well you know yeah those are nice

Time: 1684.76

images but remember that contact does

Time: 1687.919

not mean connection you know and I went

Time: 1690.88

thinking about that like at the very

Time: 1692.279

beginning I thought that it was silly

Time: 1693.6

semantics you know um but I I

Time: 1696.84

specifically remember that there was one

Time: 1698.36

time I was running and I was thinking

Time: 1700.48

like how do you demonstrate connection

Time: 1702.159

between two cells and then I thought

Time: 1704.2

that since we had the ability to

Time: 1705.519

identify the cells by fluorescence we

Time: 1707.519

could isolate them based on their

Time: 1710.24

fluorescence and what will happen if we

Time: 1712.36

put them in front of a sensory neuron

Time: 1715.799

and then just record them inside of a

Time: 1717.72

microscope right over

Time: 1720.24

time and I thought maybe they will get

Time: 1723.039

close to each other and then we can go

Time: 1724.84

and do some more labeling and show that

Time: 1726.72

they are H contacting or connecting but

Time: 1729.88

much to our surprise we actually saw

Time: 1731.72

that in real time they when you isolate

Time: 1735.2

them from the mouth and you put them in

Time: 1737.08

a dish they both look like these round

Time: 1739.679

circles but after a few hours not only

Time: 1742.279

they get close to each other but they

Time: 1744

recapitulate the circuitry in the dish

Time: 1747.039

literally they form like two brains in a

Time: 1748.96

dish right like it's the gut and the

Time: 1750.919

Brain in a dish amazing uh yeah and that

Time: 1754.559

that was an eye opener you know I still

Time: 1757.919

remember it was somewhere I think it was

Time: 1759.399

like June 27 2012 when I saw that

Time: 1761.88

experiment because um it opened my my

Time: 1765.72

eyes to so many different things one was

Time: 1767.6

that this cells are not

Time: 1769.519

static because since we have been seeing

Time: 1772.279

them for decades just in as slices or

Time: 1775.399

fixed tissue and we have lost the notion

Time: 1778.88

that this thing is constantly moving

Time: 1780.6

right the cells are actually moving the

Time: 1782.159

cells are actually moving so these cells

Time: 1784.08

line the gut meaning they're along the

Time: 1785.679

walls of the gut an intestine yeah the

Time: 1788.32

intestine they reach a hand into the gut

Time: 1791.76

to sense whatever chemicals are there

Time: 1794

yeah they have Little Celia little hair

Time: 1795.919

or micr that is literally like little

Time: 1798.64

hair that is exposed to the Lumen M you

Time: 1801.039

know so the Lumen folks is the the

Time: 1803.6

cavity the empty cavity of the gut not

Time: 1805.64

empty but you know the the the internal

Time: 1808.6

part and so they're sensing the

Time: 1810

chemicals there and you're saying they

Time: 1811.24

can move okay and they're sending a

Time: 1814.96

process by the way folks anytime you

Time: 1817

don't know whether or not something is a

Time: 1818.279

dendrite or an axon just call it a

Time: 1820.36

process you you'll get it right uh a

Time: 1823.12

process up to the brain underneath that

Time: 1826.36

will connect to the nervous system I see

Time: 1828.32

so through a series of of of stations

Time: 1831

yeah okay um amazing so what we're

Time: 1835

talking about here is Diego's discovery

Time: 1838.039

of a pathway from the gut to the brain

Time: 1841.559

that essentially allows sensing of

Time: 1843.32

what's happening in the gut to inform

Time: 1846.08

feelings decision correct yeah so that

Time: 1849.12

that was uh the first experiment like

Time: 1850.799

showing H in addition right the next

Time: 1853.32

experiment was well does it happen in

Time: 1855.48

the in the mouse and then through a

Time: 1858

series of I have a friend neuroscientist

Time: 1860.279

that she calls this Ravis gymnastics

Time: 1862.559

because you have to put in some genes

Time: 1864.2

and make things work then we

Time: 1866.2

demonstrated that these uh

Time: 1868.399

cells that the virus will be capable of

Time: 1871.32

infecting these cells specifically

Time: 1873.519

instead of infecting the other

Time: 1875.24

epithelial cells it will infect these

Time: 1876.88

new epithelial cells because ravies

Time: 1878.919

likes

Time: 1880.24

neurons and then it will jump from that

Time: 1883.2

cell into a nerve

Time: 1885.24

fiber and these ravies can only jump one

Time: 1888.36

connection right and what it was uh

Time: 1892.88

surprising is that the fluoresence from

Time: 1895.039

that rabies will show up in the brain

Time: 1897.32

stem and in the bodies of the cells that

Time: 1899.84

are in the noos ganglia which is this

Time: 1901.88

cluster where the cell bodies of the um

Time: 1905.519

neurons of the begos nerve are located

Time: 1907.559

right underneath the the

Time: 1909.519

neck meaning that there was just one

Time: 1912.799

stop between the surface of the

Time: 1917.039

intestine

Time: 1918.559

and the brain stem the two cells were

Time: 1921.36

connecting that

Time: 1923.32

um that space you know so obviously the

Time: 1926.799

information that was the anatomical

Time: 1929.32

basis for the information to travel very

Time: 1932.799

rapidly up into the brain and rapidly in

Time: 1936.279

the subconscious right like we're not

Time: 1938.48

necessarily aware of it although uh I've

Time: 1941.08

read that there are some instances in

Time: 1942.639

which people become more aware of it

Time: 1945.279

either in uh a ag

Time: 1948.36

typical uh fashion or with meditation

Time: 1952.159

and other things that people can become

Time: 1953.679

aware yes people definitely can become

Time: 1956.279

more aware of their so-called

Time: 1957.48

interoception what's going on at the

Time: 1959.279

level of their heartbeat frequency or

Time: 1961.559

their gut sensing if they spend time on

Time: 1964

it some people as you mentioned develop

Time: 1966.08

an almost pathologic sense of

Time: 1968.639

interception such that they have trouble

Time: 1970.639

navigating normal life because they're

Time: 1972.399

so aware of what's going on inside their

Time: 1974.24

body this is actually an interesting

Time: 1975.639

issue in the field of Psychiatry my

Time: 1977.84

colleagues in Psychiatry at Stanford

Time: 1979.519

tell me that um some people with a lot

Time: 1981.48

of anxiety for instance are so aware of

Time: 1984.44

their heartbeat that it becomes um

Time: 1987.44

disruptive and distracting to them so

Time: 1990.159

it's not always the case that it's

Time: 1992.08

better to become more aware of your

Time: 1993.559

internal processing sometimes it can be

Time: 1996.36

um dilus other times it can be good for

Time: 1998.919

us um some people are very unaware of

Time: 2000.799

what's happening in their body and they

Time: 2002.039

need to develop more awareness of that I

Time: 2004.399

feel like as long as we're talking about

Time: 2005.76

rabies we should have a little bit of

Time: 2007.159

fun and explain to people something

Time: 2009.48

about rabies viruses because what we've

Time: 2011.039

been talking about is the use of viruses

Time: 2014.12

as uh experimental Tools in order to you

Time: 2018.24

know take a

Time: 2019.519

virus basically attach or put something

Time: 2022.919

in so that whatever cell is infected by

Time: 2024.6

it glows a certain color so you can see

Time: 2026.279

the cells and visualize the circuitry

Time: 2028.399

but as long as we're talking about

Time: 2029.24

rabies I feel like it's such a uh a word

Time: 2032.399

that has such salience the rabies virus

Time: 2034.48

which exists in nature um is amazing

Time: 2038.44

because it's um I don't know if it has a

Time: 2041.08

Consciousness but it essentially

Time: 2042.559

propagates between animals by way of the

Time: 2045.279

animals that have it bite they they

Time: 2047.24

become more

Time: 2048.359

aggressive they bite a um a Target

Time: 2052.48

animal the virus gets in it's picked up

Time: 2055.359

by the nerve Terminals and is carried

Time: 2057.44

back from one ner cell to the next

Time: 2059.639

across synaptic connections right

Time: 2061.919

synapses the G little gaps between

Time: 2063.52

neurons and what Dr Diego Boris has been

Time: 2068.359

telling us is that scientists have

Time: 2070.359

engineered the rabies virus so that it

Time: 2072.48

only jumps one station and then stops

Time: 2074.839

you can do this by modifying the coat

Time: 2076.28

protein there's a bunch of fun virology

Time: 2078.2

that can be done uh to do that but what

Time: 2080.879

I find amazing about rabies virus and

Time: 2082.919

there's a great book by the way called

Time: 2084.359

rabid which is a a essentially a history

Time: 2087.48

of the of the study of rabies um is that

Time: 2091.28

once it travels from the S of the bite

Time: 2093.96

up to the brain what does it do it

Time: 2096.639

changes the brain to make the now

Time: 2099.079

infected animal or person more

Time: 2101.64

aggressive so that then they go bite

Time: 2103.16

somebody else um so I mean in some ways

Time: 2106.64

that the viruses have a sort kind of

Time: 2108.28

unconscious genius to them right what's

Time: 2110.44

the best way to get from one animal to

Time: 2113.4

the next well there are a number of

Time: 2115.24

different ways but one way is to just

Time: 2116.8

make that animal more aggressive so it

Time: 2118.28

goes and bites things yeah make wild

Time: 2120.72

make the animal work for you right make

Time: 2122.24

the animal work for you right it's it's

Time: 2124.16

it's almost exploitive right it exploits

Time: 2127.04

certain circuit in the nervous system

Time: 2128.76

I'd like to take a brief break and

Time: 2130.079

acknowledge our sponsor ag1 by now most

Time: 2133

of you have heard me tell my story about

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how I've been taking ag1 once or twice a

Time: 2136.92

day every day since 2012 and indeed

Time: 2139.24

that's true I started taking ag1 and I

Time: 2141.599

still take ag1 once or twice a day

Time: 2143.92

because it gives me vitamins and

Time: 2145.2

minerals that I might not be getting

Time: 2146.56

enough of from Whole Foods that I eat as

Time: 2149.04

well as adaptogens and micronutrients

Time: 2151.72

those adaptogens and micronutrients are

Time: 2153.4

really critical because even though I

Time: 2154.8

strive to eat most of my foods from

Time: 2156.92

unprocessed are minimally processed

Time: 2158.56

Whole Foods it's often hard to do so

Time: 2160.68

especially when I'm traveling and

Time: 2161.92

especially when I'm busy so by drinking

Time: 2164.079

a packet of ag1 in the morning and

Time: 2165.88

oftentimes also again in the afternoon

Time: 2167.8

or evening I'm ensuring that I'm getting

Time: 2170.24

everything I need I'm covering all of my

Time: 2171.96

foundational nutritional needs and I

Time: 2174.24

like so many other people that take ag1

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that shouldn't be surprising because it

Time: 2180.04

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Time: 2181.599

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brain health and it's supporting a ton

Time: 2185.76

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CES that all interact with one another

Time: 2190.16

so while certain supplements are really

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directed towards one specific outcome

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like sleeping better or being more alert

Time: 2195.64

ag1 really is foundational nutritional

Time: 2198.359

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Time: 2201.88

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again that's drink ag1 /h huberman okay

Time: 2220.16

so you uh identified these you said

Time: 2223.64

described but you I'll say discovered

Time: 2225.56

because um that's what happened you

Time: 2227.56

discover these these cells you label

Time: 2230.2

their connections you see that there's

Time: 2231.8

just two Stations between these cells or

Time: 2235.04

one station really between these cells

Time: 2236.76

and the brain and so now these cells can

Time: 2240.04

sense chemicals in the gut that are the

Time: 2242.8

consequence of the breakdown of food and

Time: 2244.839

send that information directly to the

Time: 2246.359

brain what does the brain do with that

Time: 2248.68

information all so here comes uh the key

Time: 2252.079

experiment and this was building

Time: 2253.48

obviously on the work of other

Time: 2254.96

scientists that had already described

Time: 2256.839

that the gut had some uh receptors for

Time: 2259.48

uh sugars for specifically for glucose

Time: 2262.16

for other nutrients around this area in

Time: 2264.76

the early 2000s when we were starting to

Time: 2266.88

be able to identify some of these cells

Time: 2270.44

then uh it quickly became uh obvious

Time: 2273.359

that uh these cells these

Time: 2276

enteroendocrine cells throughout the

Time: 2278.079

lining of the stomach intestine colon

Time: 2282.24

they had multiple receptors for multiple

Time: 2284.76

nutrients you know like we have the

Time: 2286.68

macronutrients for instance sugars fats

Time: 2289.24

proteins but within them we have you

Time: 2292

know a repertoire of molecules you know

Time: 2294.64

multiple uh lipids multiple types of

Time: 2297.2

sugars and so on and so forth and these

Time: 2299.52

cells depending on their location they

Time: 2301.599

will Express a different type of

Time: 2304.2

receptors or a combination of those

Time: 2306.04

receptors and I said depending on the

Time: 2308.24

location because when we're eating let's

Time: 2309.96

say an apple you know the apple is going

Time: 2311.88

to be partially undigested by the time

Time: 2313.92

that it enters intestine but by the time

Time: 2315.76

that it gets to the the colon most of

Time: 2317.4

those nutrients have being absorbed and

Time: 2319.359

perhaps only fibers are surviving to

Time: 2321.24

feed off most of the microbes that live

Time: 2323.72

in the colon right so the gut has

Time: 2327.76

evolved to mirror and to become a velro

Time: 2332.68

to the molecules that will be in that in

Time: 2335.88

that specific space so it will detect so

Time: 2339.04

um it will detect sugars more in the

Time: 2342.16

proximal intestine but fibers or uh

Time: 2345.24

fermented by products more in the distal

Time: 2347.48

intestine or in the colon like shin

Time: 2349.4

fatty acids beate prop propionate um and

Time: 2353

so on and so forth you know what other

Time: 2354.8

kinds of nutrients do these neurop pod

Time: 2356.52

cells detect from food so you mentioned

Time: 2359

sugars you mentioned ferment

Time: 2361.839

fermentation so um presumably short and

Time: 2365.119

longchain fatty acids yes the short

Time: 2367.96

answer is that uh I think that in due

Time: 2371.52

time we are going to realize that they

Time: 2373.359

detect just about every single thing

Time: 2375

that we put on our mouths every day you

Time: 2376.88

know uh that they have some either an a

Time: 2379.24

specific receptor that is dedicated to

Time: 2381.24

it or a combination of receptors to be

Time: 2384.079

able to detect um some of these

Time: 2386.68

compounds and not only the chemical

Time: 2388.68

compounds but also an area that I think

Time: 2390.8

that is going to be fascinating in the

Time: 2392.2

future is the mechanical distension plus

Time: 2395.48

uh the the adjustment in temperature

Time: 2397.92

as the Kim starts to flow

Time: 2400.52

from the mouth into the colon like for

Time: 2404.16

instance I I I heard this from a

Time: 2406.2

bioengineer not long ago that was

Time: 2408.2

engineering a artificial gut on a

Time: 2411.119

stomach and he uh shared with me um a

Time: 2414.88

piece of information that I was not

Time: 2416.28

aware of that uh the esophagus has to

Time: 2419.56

adjust the temperature of the food very

Time: 2422.119

rapidly within seconds into

Time: 2424.44

physiological temperature of the inside

Time: 2427.079

of the the body like so we are having

Time: 2428.68

hot coffee within couple of seconds it

Time: 2430.96

has to be at the physiological

Time: 2432.319

temperature of the body by the time that

Time: 2433.72

it gets into the stomach right and all

Time: 2436.28

of that happens in very rapidly amazing

Time: 2439.359

suff right so if I understand correctly

Time: 2441.68

these neurop pod cells have a variety of

Time: 2443.68

different receptors depending on where

Time: 2445.72

they are located along the trajectory

Time: 2448.16

from the mouth to the rectum that's

Time: 2450.92

correct and some are sensing sugar some

Time: 2453.8

are sensing temperature some are sensing

Time: 2456.44

pH so relative acidity some are

Time: 2461.4

sensing amino acids presumably I mean

Time: 2464.88

I've heard it said and I believe there's

Time: 2466.64

a a researcher down in Australia who's

Time: 2469.64

been very bullish on the theory that we

Time: 2472.48

are not exclusively but we are

Time: 2475.64

predominantly amino acid foraging

Time: 2477.839

machines because we need amino acids for

Time: 2480.56

all sorts of important biological

Time: 2482.52

processes um and these cells are

Time: 2486

essentially evaluating how how much

Time: 2487.56

sugar how much Lucine how much um uh

Time: 2491.4

short chain fatty acid how much um you

Time: 2494.079

know essential fatty acids of different

Time: 2495.599

kinds and then making changes to the gut

Time: 2497.96

itself but then presumably signaling

Time: 2499.88

that information elsewhere in in the

Time: 2501.56

body so um here I'm going to give you a

Time: 2504.839

something that will get your gut

Time: 2507.16

churning so to speak so these cells have

Time: 2510.839

to make sense not only of the molecule

Time: 2513.88

that had been ingested meaning the

Time: 2515.44

chemistry of the molecule let's say it's

Time: 2517.16

glucose it has to make sense a little

Time: 2518.68

bit of The Taste is it sweet right is it

Time: 2521.52

bitter then it has to take into account

Time: 2524.48

how much of the molecule is absorbed

Time: 2527.28

inside of the cell right so that's the

Time: 2529.48

second layer of integration then once

Time: 2531.52

the cell has eaten that molecule so to

Time: 2534.88

speak then that molecule will be

Time: 2536.96

digested inside of the cell to release

Time: 2540.04

ATP or some other uh compound ATP is for

Time: 2544.52

energy for instance that has also have

Time: 2547.76

to be taken into account for instance in

Time: 2549.599

the in the in glucose glucose activates

Time: 2552.079

the tas1 R3 which is a sweet taste

Time: 2554.4

receptor then the glucose is absorbed by

Time: 2556.2

some of the sodium glucose Transporters

Time: 2558

which are active Transporters and these

Time: 2560.839

Transporters uh depolarize the cell and

Time: 2563.68

then once glucose gets inside of the

Time: 2565.359

cell glucose enters the TCA cycle is

Time: 2567.64

catabolized and then produces ATP and

Time: 2569.68

the ATP further activates another uh

Time: 2573.44

voltage gated Channel

Time: 2577.24

further depolarizing the cell and then

Time: 2579.8

the cell releases in turn a transmitter

Time: 2583.8

for instance glutamate that very rapidly

Time: 2585.76

tells the vus nerve within milliseconds

Time: 2587.839

you know I got sugar uh and it tells it

Time: 2590.72

in two phases because that glutamate

Time: 2592.88

will activate two different type of

Time: 2594.64

receptors ionotropic which are very fast

Time: 2597.72

and metabotropic which are a little bit

Time: 2599.48

more you know more delayed uh but then

Time: 2603.319

the metabolism of that glucose that

Time: 2605.359

produces the ATP and farther polarizes

Time: 2607.64

the cell we believe that um it will

Time: 2610.64

cause the release of the hormone of the

Time: 2612.359

neuropeptide so then the neuropeptide

Time: 2614.48

comes on top of that and gives you that

Time: 2617.119

full experience of what it means to uh

Time: 2620.119

consume sugar right um so that happens

Time: 2624.119

at the level of one cell and at the

Time: 2626.96

level of one molecule so imagine like

Time: 2628.88

all of the computation that the gut has

Time: 2630.599

to be making for each one of the

Time: 2632.44

molecules throughout the digestive

Time: 2634.64

tract so if I stand back from the

Time: 2637.24

picture um what I get is there are very

Time: 2641.68

interesting cell types that line our gut

Time: 2643.48

that are

Time: 2644.4

evaluating all of the not just

Time: 2647.079

macronutrients proteins fats and

Time: 2648.92

carbohydrates but micronutrients within

Time: 2651.04

the food we eat as well as some of the

Time: 2654.319

other qualitative features temperature

Time: 2656.559

for instance maybe even quality of the

Time: 2659.04

amino acids or the sugars you know

Time: 2662.04

simple versus complex sugars

Time: 2664.559

Etc if we could just further zoom out

Time: 2667.119

for a moment and take a human

Time: 2669.599

perspective on this at the level of

Time: 2672.52

experience I once heard you tell a story

Time: 2675.44

about um someone you knew who changed

Time: 2679.599

their gut

Time: 2681.76

radically and that changed their entire

Time: 2684.72

perceptual experience of food including

Time: 2687.44

certain Cravings would you mind sharing

Time: 2689.599

that story yes uh thank you for uh

Time: 2692.559

bringing that story Andrew that story is

Time: 2695

very personal to me I of often say when

Time: 2697.599

I get on stage that we are constantly

Time: 2699.64

influenced by two things in life the

Time: 2701.2

food that we eat and the people that we

Time: 2702.68

meet you know like now I uh we have

Time: 2705.4

known each other but now we meet in

Time: 2706.8

person and we are knowing other people

Time: 2709.359

right and I remember that when I was uh

Time: 2712.4

starting my PhD in nutrition at North

Time: 2714.88

Carolina State University I was uh so I

Time: 2717.4

didn't grow up in the United States I uh

Time: 2719.359

grew up in Ecuador and uh I was invited

Time: 2723.319

to my first Thanksgiving celebration so

Time: 2726.44

I sat at dinner and you know as we began

Time: 2729.559

chatting with uh the people that were

Time: 2731.559

next to each other uh all of a sudden I

Time: 2734.119

was uh enthrall in this conversation of

Time: 2737.559

a woman telling me this story about her

Time: 2740.28

experience with gastric bipass surgery

Time: 2743.2

for treating obesity so gastric bass

Time: 2746.68

surgery uh was begun to be um developed

Time: 2750.2

by surgeons uh in the 60s and by the 90s

Time: 2753.96

it had become a mainstream uh type of

Time: 2757

surgery for the treatment of uh chronic

Time: 2760

obesity so she told me that there were

Time: 2762.359

primarily three things that happened she

Time: 2764.16

said well within uh six months of the

Time: 2767.16

surgery I had lost about 40% of body

Time: 2769.839

weight you know she said like I was

Time: 2771.88

about 300 pounds you do the math you

Time: 2774.24

know so it was a it was a significant

Time: 2776.96

amount significant amount she said

Time: 2779.92

within one week of the surgery my

Time: 2782.44

diabetes was gone she said I did not

Time: 2784.28

need more insulin shots so I had the

Time: 2787.68

same reaction that that you're having I

Time: 2789.599

was like that you know I don't know much

Time: 2792

about diabetes but I know that is is a

Time: 2794.319

major health uh burden

Time: 2797.16

right but the thing that really caught

Time: 2799.52

my eye was when she said but since

Time: 2802.119

you're studying nutrition I want you to

Time: 2803.8

answer this to me she said why is it

Time: 2806.2

that before the surgery I could not even

Time: 2808.319

look at sunic Side Up XG she said uh

Time: 2811.52

just looking at the Yoke will make me

Time: 2813

quizy you know but after the surgery no

Time: 2816.92

not only I can eat sonide up eggs I

Time: 2819.079

actually have a craving for the yolk she

Time: 2820.72

said every time we go on Saturday to a

Time: 2823.48

restaurant for breakfast I will take the

Time: 2825.079

toast and will actually clean the plate

Time: 2827.2

uh of the Yol so how is it that rewiring

Time: 2830.2

the the gut uh alter my perception of uh

Time: 2834

of flavor alter my my cravings and my

Time: 2836.2

mind to to get the the Yol she said and

Time: 2838.92

even inverted her sense of what was

Time: 2840.88

aversive versus repetitive and and I

Time: 2844.319

guess for those of us that don't know

Time: 2846.44

meaning me um I understand the gastric

Time: 2848.96

bypass surgery involves the removal of a

Time: 2851.04

portion of the of the gut um how much

Time: 2854.319

gut tissue do they actually take is it

Time: 2857.359

centimeters inches I mean the guts a

Time: 2860.48

long distance so what what what do they

Time: 2861.96

do for gastri in in in simple terms the

Time: 2864.599

most

Time: 2865.64

um the classic surgery is called uh ruin

Time: 2870.04

y gastric bypass surgery which involves

Time: 2873.28

a a reduction of the stomach and short

Time: 2877.92

cutting the uh connection of the stomach

Time: 2881.04

to the intestine so you will cut you

Time: 2883.48

know 1/3 which will be the dadum uh one

Time: 2887.16

third of that will be uh cut and then

Time: 2890.72

that portion will be reconnected to the

Time: 2892.839

stomach meaning that you're short

Time: 2894.68

circuiting the the gut and the whole

Time: 2897.079

idea was at the very beginning was like

Time: 2899.24

well if we reduce the surface that is

Time: 2901.599

exposed to food then we can reduce body

Time: 2904.839

weight by the simp L um reduction of

Time: 2908.76

surface that is exposed to the food that

Time: 2910.52

is absorbed right and uh what it became

Time: 2914.079

very clear is that well before the body

Time: 2917.119

weight uh changes got taken place uh

Time: 2919.76

there was already like some dramatic

Time: 2921.68

changes in physiology like like the

Time: 2924.2

hormones the neuropeptides that we

Time: 2925.64

release from uh the intestine in

Time: 2927.88

response to nutrients you know will

Time: 2930.28

change very rapidly then as I mentioned

Time: 2933.119

the food choices will change diabetes

Time: 2935.2

will be resolved um so then it became

Time: 2938.72

obvious that it was not necessarily just

Time: 2940.96

the the uh reduction in the surface of

Time: 2944.559

of the gut so that's one of the main uh

Time: 2946.64

surgeries the other one um as I

Time: 2949.119

understand is vertical isaf gastrectomy

Time: 2952.96

and this vertical s gastrectomy is

Time: 2955.319

simply a a reduction in the size of the

Time: 2958.68

stomach so is now the stomach is very

Time: 2961.16

tiny and the idea is that will

Time: 2962.44

accumulate uh less it could hold less

Time: 2964.96

food and then the food will go very

Time: 2966.44

rapid rapidly into the intestine and

Time: 2968.52

what is very is becoming very obvious is

Time: 2970.72

that there is a rapid change in the

Time: 2973.319

sensory function of the gastrointestinal

Time: 2975.799

tract so the gut seems to rapidly shift

Time: 2979.599

perhaps become more so to speak in

Time: 2981.48

general terms more sensitive to the

Time: 2984.119

presence of nutrients right interesting

Time: 2986.48

so this woman that you met at

Time: 2987.92

Thanksgiving had G gastric bypass

Time: 2990.52

surgery and presumably I think it's fair

Time: 2993.68

to assume a good number of these neurop

Time: 2996.72

hot cells that sense different nutrients

Time: 2998.799

were removed and as a consequence she

Time: 3002.839

completely shifted her craving of a

Time: 3004.68

particular food and is there any sense

Time: 3008.359

whether or not no pun intended the lack

Time: 3012.04

of sensing of what was in uh you know

Time: 3015.359

Sunnyside egg yolks was somehow related

Time: 3019.119

to a shift in appetite or something else

Time: 3020.92

or is it merely a a a um a qualitative

Time: 3024.92

albeit a dramatic qualitative sh in in

Time: 3027.319

what she craved so two uh contextual

Time: 3031.28

pieces of information uh so I remember

Time: 3033.96

leaving that dinner and I was like wow

Time: 3036.799

this is Major you know like I'm sure

Time: 3038.599

that people have green about this or

Time: 3040.68

don't research um and I realized that it

Time: 3043.799

was very little was known even

Time: 3046.24

gastroenterologists knew very little

Time: 3048.079

about this the first clinical report

Time: 3050.72

that um the alteration in food choices

Time: 3054.4

was common in these patients uh came out

Time: 3056.96

I believe in

Time: 3058.24

2011 uh and then later on scientist

Time: 3061.96

replicated that even in rats or in mice

Time: 3064.88

uh we have done it in the laboratory and

Time: 3066.72

consistently they they change their food

Time: 3069.28

preferences their their um food choices

Time: 3074.28

so er in in recent years we have been we

Time: 3079.2

have been uh studying that that system

Time: 3082.48

um and I will tell you that in

Time: 3084.44

2022 this is another important

Time: 3086.68

contextual piece that we have gotten

Time: 3088.599

have not gotten to it so after we

Time: 3092.799

uh found and we describe that these

Time: 3095.24

cells were connecting to the nervous

Time: 3096.92

system and that they were sending

Time: 3098.48

information up to the brain very rapidly

Time: 3101.2

the challenge was well if this is a

Time: 3104.04

sense what behavior is affecting right

Time: 3106.559

like how is it that is affecting the the

Time: 3108.28

responses of the organism and that took

Time: 3110.839

a little bit of a a technical hdle and

Time: 3113.88

here is where optogenetics uh comes in

Time: 3116.76

yeah please um explain for people what

Time: 3118.28

optogenetics is in at least at a top

Time: 3120.88

Contour level yeah so optogenetics uh

Time: 3124.52

205

Time: 3126.44

uh Professor Carl daero Ed boen and

Time: 3131.559

other scientists had been able to make

Time: 3134.92

this this dream of an experiment which

Time: 3137.2

was uh isolate the the genes that encode

Time: 3140.079

for these opsins that are sensitive to

Time: 3142.48

specific wavelengths of light and put

Time: 3144.76

them into neurons and now by turning

Time: 3147.76

that light they could make the neuron

Time: 3150.119

activate and then ultimately then later

Time: 3152.72

on they went on to describe that that

Time: 3154.24

could be used to control a specific

Time: 3156.319

cells that are regulating behavior and

Time: 3158.76

then by that Define what cells are

Time: 3161.119

orchestrating certain type of behaviors

Time: 3163.2

like movement food intake thirst anxiety

Time: 3167.319

so on and so forth so in 2014 we we

Time: 3170.28

began H trying to adapt that technology

Time: 3173.92

to the

Time: 3174.88

gut very quickly

Time: 3177

we realized that the way that was that

Time: 3179.96

light was brought into the brain was

Time: 3182.079

through a fiber optic cable that was

Time: 3185.28

rigid and uh and in the brain you know

Time: 3189.2

it it helps that it's actually rigid but

Time: 3191.559

in the gut it doesn't help because the

Time: 3193.079

gut is constantly moving and so on and

Time: 3194.76

so forth so it's not compatible for

Time: 3196.559

running those experiments and here's

Time: 3198.68

where I usually say like you know we

Time: 3200.72

really don't know what is going on

Time: 3202

because some some forces like move

Time: 3204

around us and in 2017 uh Professor

Time: 3207.28

Paulina Nika from MIT came to give a

Time: 3210.28

talk at Duke and uh she reached out to

Time: 3213.24

me and literally she came and as we were

Time: 3215.799

chatting she said like Diego I see that

Time: 3217.28

you're you're working between uh in this

Time: 3219.16

interface of the gut and the brain and I

Time: 3221.559

have this fiber optic that is flexible

Time: 3224.4

you know would you have any use for it

Time: 3227

so with that H fiber optic that made a

Time: 3229.4

big difference to study interrogate the

Time: 3231.44

function of these cells to

Time: 3233.48

behavior so when we were able to put

Time: 3236.16

those opsins the light sensitive uh

Time: 3239.319

proteins inside of these neurop pods and

Time: 3241.72

now when we turn the light on to shut

Time: 3245.079

off these cells very

Time: 3248.28

rapidly we found something very

Time: 3251.44

interesting so normally animals when you

Time: 3253.92

give them the choice between a suer

Time: 3256.599

which is the void of caloric value so

Time: 3259.119

like a like a aspartame or or Stevia or

Time: 3263.359

something y uh and you give them

Time: 3267.359

sugar table sugar the animal invariably

Time: 3271.64

will go to Sugar they prefer sugar they

Time: 3274.52

prefer sugar you know uh if they have

Time: 3277.2

never seen sugar it will take them a

Time: 3278.96

little bit more time but regularly um by

Time: 3282.079

the second day is within 90 seconds that

Time: 3285.64

they detect what is sugar so they're

Time: 3288.359

drinking out of one tube they get some

Time: 3290.839

water with stevia they drink out of

Time: 3292.24

another tube water with sugar and they

Time: 3294.4

invariably prefer the water with sugar

Time: 3297.48

that's correct and uh people have

Time: 3300.76

described this um this phenomenon for a

Time: 3303.72

while and in fact in 2007 There Was An

Time: 3305.599

Elegant experiment done by Professor Ian

Time: 3309.119

Deo at Duke University in which the uh

Time: 3313.64

sweet taste receptors were or the The

Time: 3316.52

Taste uh receptors were genetically

Time: 3319.559

erased and the animals um were not

Time: 3323

capable of distinguishing the sugar the

Time: 3325.16

sweetener from the water but they could

Time: 3327.76

still distinguish sugar from uh water

Time: 3331.44

meaning that there was something else

Time: 3333.76

that was detecting that that sugar so

Time: 3335.64

just to make sure people are on

Time: 3337.28

board an experiment where sensing of

Time: 3340.44

sweet taste at the level of the mouth is

Time: 3344.28

eliminated does not disrupt the

Time: 3347.079

preference for sugar water correct which

Time: 3349.92

means that there's something going on

Time: 3352.039

below the depth of

Time: 3354.44

Consciousness that

Time: 3356.839

causes mammals presumably us included to

Time: 3359.96

prefer things that have

Time: 3361.76

sugar yes and uh then uh Professor ton

Time: 3365.88

clani he had been studying these uh

Time: 3368.079

these behaviors and he went in so far to

Time: 3369.96

suggest that perhaps the sodium glucose

Time: 3372.48

Transporters are some of the ones that

Time: 3374.52

are detecting the the sugar as it enters

Time: 3376.88

the intestine and that's what is causing

Time: 3378.28

the

Time: 3379.119

behavior um so we began working on the

Time: 3382.76

system and we we Wonder Could these

Time: 3384.76

cells

Time: 3386.359

be the ones that are guiding that

Time: 3388.599

Behavior Uh and around the time that uh

Time: 3390.96

we published this work uh Professor uh

Time: 3393.68

Charles zuker at uh Colombia also

Time: 3396.559

further uh Advanced that that area by uh

Time: 3399.48

building on the on the previous work and

Time: 3401.64

demonstrated that um there were a

Time: 3404.68

population of neurons in the brain stem

Time: 3406.4

that were integrating this information

Time: 3408.72

from the gut uh and by that the gut and

Time: 3413.079

the Brain were guiding this this

Time: 3414.599

Behavior so and it is true that from the

Time: 3417.48

earliest of Ages We crave sugar or at

Time: 3421.839

least if we are exposed to the taste of

Time: 3424.4

sugar it tends to drive seeking of more

Time: 3427.28

sugar you can see that in babies even

Time: 3430.4

correct and as I usually say um I call

Time: 3433.559

it instinctively because our mother

Time: 3435.16

doesn't have to teach us hey uh Diego

Time: 3438.48

that is glucose you know uh it may

Time: 3441.319

present Us in some ways but uh at the

Time: 3443.52

end of the day I have to go and get my

Time: 3445.2

glucose get my am acids right because

Time: 3447.599

eating is very simple we're just trying

Time: 3449.92

to solve this issue of getting our

Time: 3451.68

carbons getting our nitrogen getting our

Time: 3453.599

phosphorus our potassium our sodium and

Time: 3456.16

our chloride in so many different ways

Time: 3458.88

shape or forms right so I went back to

Time: 3461.799

the experiment the key experiment so

Time: 3464.319

when we were able to put these opsins

Time: 3466.64

and bring the light and shut off these

Time: 3468.68

cells very rapidly when we had presented

Time: 3471.799

the animal with the choice of sweetener

Time: 3474.48

over sugar

Time: 3476.599

then all of a sudden the animal became

Time: 3478.799

blind to the solutions it couldn't

Time: 3481.079

discern between the the the stevia so to

Time: 3485.28

speak or the sweetener from the actual

Time: 3487.559

sugar and the entire manipulation the

Time: 3489.799

experimental manipulation that is is

Time: 3493

occurring at the level of the gut the

Time: 3494.68

intestine that's right right after the

Time: 3496.28

stomach it's like just a small portion

Time: 3497.92

of the intestine so if we make an

Time: 3501.559

attempt to transfer this to the human

Time: 3504.24

Real World Experience um um if

Time: 3508.4

I have some ice cream it tastes sweet I

Time: 3513.2

like it and now I'm thinking about it

Time: 3515.839

and I'm craving it just a little bit I

Time: 3517.88

don't have a huge craving for sweets but

Time: 3520.359

um I do like some of them so eating ice

Time: 3524.799

cream it tastes sweet the tendency is to

Time: 3526.68

crave more that's correct right you have

Time: 3528.92

to eat a lot of ice cream before you're

Time: 3530.28

truly full yeah um and most people

Time: 3533.76

self-regulate or their parents regulate

Time: 3535.48

for them

Time: 3536.599

um by limiting the number of Scoops or

Time: 3538.24

something um

Time: 3541.039

and that sweet taste is part of the

Time: 3544.039

motivator but what you're saying is that

Time: 3547.52

as the ice cream enters the gut there

Time: 3550.039

are neurop pod cells there that are also

Time: 3552.599

sensing the sugar and signaling to the

Time: 3555.599

brain and the brain is responding to

Time: 3559.44

pursue more of that sweet containing

Time: 3562.68

substance that's correct and it's

Time: 3564.52

happening below our awareness it is

Time: 3566.96

independent from the Sweet Taste of the

Time: 3569.4

ice cream correct the the conscious

Time: 3571.64

sweet taste the conscious sweet taste

Time: 3574.16

which if you think about it it's not

Time: 3576.28

fully conscious right you know as a what

Time: 3579.799

we detect of the world it's just a very

Time: 3582.52

tiny little portion right even sight you

Time: 3584.96

know like we think we are looking for

Time: 3586.799

light but I don't know what is happening

Time: 3588.2

behind my my back I trust that

Time: 3590.4

everything is going okay right so um so

Time: 3594.64

when we shut off uh the

Time: 3597.039

cells uh the animal and as I usually say

Time: 3600.44

like became blind to the sugars because

Time: 3604.2

it's kind of like uh a keing to having

Time: 3607.4

turn off the cells that are able to

Time: 3610

detect light the wav length of light for

Time: 3613.559

us to be able to discern color right and

Time: 3617.76

it's not that the animal is losing its

Time: 3619.2

memory because then you if you remove

Time: 3621.039

the light and now the the cells are

Time: 3622.48

functional again then the animal again

Time: 3624.799

is able to distinguish one solution over

Time: 3627.2

over the

Time: 3628.599

other uh and then we did a couple more

Time: 3631.319

experiments in there and what happens uh

Time: 3634.079

if we do the reverse if we turn on the

Time: 3636.359

cells

Time: 3637.319

now and the fascinating thing is that

Time: 3639.72

when we turn on the cells now the uh the

Time: 3642.92

mouse will eat the sweetener as if it

Time: 3645.119

will be sugar interesting so the

Time: 3647.48

activation of these

Time: 3649.079

cells makes them crave non-caloric

Time: 3653.359

sweetener or low calorie sweetener as if

Time: 3656.119

it were

Time: 3657.119

sugar but is it blinding them to the

Time: 3659.52

difference between sugar and low calorie

Time: 3663.2

sweetener so here's another piece of

Time: 3665.44

information if we will offer them water

Time: 3668

and we will turn on the cells the animal

Time: 3671.039

will drink the water as if it will be

Time: 3673.319

sugar like it will be appetizing even

Time: 3675.359

though it's just plain water yes and

Time: 3677.039

what is becoming very obvious is that uh

Time: 3680.28

the gut has this sense at the most basic

Time: 3685.48

level

Time: 3686.44

what the senses are uh doing is

Time: 3688.88

calculating a couple of things one is um

Time: 3693.64

in the salience of the stimulus is like

Time: 3697.559

how intense is the stimulus and the

Time: 3699.799

other one is the veilance of the

Time: 3701.64

stimulus is a pleasurable or painful so

Time: 3706

to speak in like broad terms and I say

Time: 3708.64

this because on the on the pain side

Time: 3711.839

um uh Professor David Julius professor

Time: 3715.24

hly in

Time: 3716.799

uh jinra at UCSF they have done some

Time: 3719.96

beautiful work demonstrating that there

Time: 3722.2

are these serotonin releasing

Time: 3724.839

cells specifically in the colon they

Time: 3726.92

have focus in the colon that they couple

Time: 3729.44

two a nerve fibers of the spinal cord

Time: 3733.599

and when they are activated now all of a

Time: 3736.44

sudden they drive what we call in the

Time: 3738.799

clinical uh realm visceral hypers

Time: 3741.92

sensitivity so they are responsible for

Time: 3744.76

triggering the hypers sensitivity of the

Time: 3747.44

nerve fibers the colonic nerve fibers

Time: 3750.279

because they detect no noxious stimuli

Time: 3753.839

and then ultimately they gate that

Time: 3756.079

noxious stimulate and pass it on to the

Time: 3758.599

nerve fiber as a in Broad terms as a

Time: 3762.48

painful stimulus so is this irritable

Time: 3765.799

bowel syndrome it is we could call it as

Time: 3768.76

the biological basis of what could

Time: 3771

degenerate into irritable bow syndrome

Time: 3773.839

and so on and so forth or these

Time: 3776.2

chronical GI uh they call them uh

Time: 3780.24

disorders of gut brain interactions in

Time: 3783.119

the clinic I'd like to take a brief

Time: 3785.079

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Time: 3789.68

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a lot of blood test out there is that

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but you don't know what to do with that

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behavioral tools nutritional tools and

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supplementation tools that can help you

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huberman to get 10% off as a

Time: 3844.16

neuroscientist I was trained to think

Time: 3845.72

about the neural retina the light

Time: 3847.68

sensing tissue at the back of the eye

Time: 3849.92

the ca the essentially mechanos sensory

Time: 3854.96

cells in the inner ear that respond to

Time: 3858.039

sound waves not directly but through a

Time: 3861.52

number of different transducers and this

Time: 3863.319

kind of thing and then of course Where

Time: 3865.24

You Are all familiar with the skin and

Time: 3866.839

that it responds to pressure light touch

Time: 3868.44

tickle itch

Time: 3870.799

Etc what I'm understanding based on what

Time: 3873.16

you're telling me is that all along the

Time: 3875.559

pathway from our mouth to our rectum we

Time: 3877.839

have sensory cells that are evaluating

Time: 3880.559

the chemical constituents of the foods

Time: 3882.839

that we

Time: 3883.839

eat emitting broad kind of maybe even

Time: 3888.079

crude slow signals in the form of

Time: 3889.839

hormones to change our appetite our

Time: 3892.72

feelings of well-being maybe our

Time: 3894.68

feelings of not

Time: 3896.52

wellbeing um but also sending direct

Time: 3899.52

signals to the brain to drive certain

Time: 3902.88

types of thinking emotions and behavior

Time: 3907.16

what sorts of thoughts emotions and

Time: 3910.839

behaviors are foods known to evoke

Time: 3913.559

through this pathway from the gut

Time: 3916.039

because the story about the your friend

Time: 3918.039

that had the gastric bypass and then

Time: 3919.72

changed the relationship completely to

Time: 3921.96

the craving of or the aversion to uh

Time: 3924.96

Sunnyside eggs indicates that it's a

Time: 3928.279

pretty crude as I'm describing a system

Time: 3930.319

to begin with but It ultimately

Time: 3932.279

converges on pretty fine scale

Time: 3934.119

decision-making you order this and you

Time: 3936.2

avoid that um you really like this and

Time: 3939.079

you really are almost nauseous at the

Time: 3941.24

thought of something else that's pretty

Time: 3942.68

high level decisions it might not seem

Time: 3944.279

like it to most but um you know it's

Time: 3947.039

impacting you know significant be

Time: 3949.72

Behavior or impacting Behavior at a

Time: 3951.839

significant level that's correct um and

Time: 3955.72

and uh when I think about that specific

Time: 3958.079

example uh is

Time: 3960.319

that after there has been this rewiring

Time: 3964.2

of uh of the

Time: 3966.319

intestine then now the intestine is very

Time: 3970.4

sensitive so to speak to the stimuli and

Time: 3973.119

when those lipids from the Yoke start to

Time: 3975.359

enter the intestine if that sensitivity

Time: 3978.279

has changed meaning it could have change

Time: 3980.16

in how fast it reacts to the stimulus or

Time: 3983.839

how fast it communicates to the stimulus

Time: 3986.839

and how s sensitive it is to the

Time: 3990.359

saliency or like the the the strength of

Time: 3992.799

the stimulus it could communicate that o

Time: 3995.88

what it used to be repulsive with a tiny

Time: 3999.039

little bit of amount now it is actually

Time: 4001.4

pleasurable with a tiny little uh bit of

Time: 4004.52

amount and here's a a clear example so

Time: 4006.92

it has been very well um I will say that

Time: 4010.119

it has been documented uh in the clinic

Time: 4013.24

that patients that undergone gastric

Time: 4015.16

Bass surgery they're actually more prone

Time: 4017.88

I think that the the the it goes from

Time: 4020.68

like two to Sevenfold uh the likelihood

Time: 4024.039

that they become and they they will they

Time: 4025.799

will develop

Time: 4027.359

alcoholism really yes uh because now the

Time: 4033.279

way that they describe it is like well

Time: 4035.319

you know either before I didn't like

Time: 4038.2

wine um and then now I you know after a

Time: 4041.559

few months of a surgery I'll have one

Time: 4043.319

glass of wine and then all of a sudden I

Time: 4045.039

found myself going to 2 three four you

Time: 4047.799

know and then they will become either

Time: 4050.359

more sensitive is still not known the

Time: 4052.16

entire biology but they will become

Time: 4053.799

either not only more sensitive but more

Time: 4056.039

more attracted to that type of stimulus

Time: 4058.92

I can't help but ask about OIC monjaro

Time: 4062.68

and glp1 glucagon like

Time: 4065.76

peptide one um analogues which are

Time: 4069.88

really out of all the rage right now at

Time: 4072.44

least for discussion but many many many

Time: 4075.48

millions of people are now taking this

Time: 4076.76

for treatment of diabetes and for weight

Time: 4078.96

loss um my understanding is that glp1

Time: 4083.2

acts at the level of the brain the

Time: 4084.599

hypothalamus to reduce hunger but also

Time: 4086.599

at the level of the gut to give the

Time: 4088.96

sensation of more gastric distension is

Time: 4092

there any knowledge of whether or not

Time: 4094.76

glp1 interacts with the neurop Pod cells

Time: 4097.239

and this pathway that you're describing

Time: 4099.08

given what these neuropodia

Time: 4105.6

complimentary question and uh in fact

Time: 4108.08

when I got into uh studying in this

Time: 4110.279

field uh 15 years ago uh the study among

Time: 4114.719

scientists in this area uh glucagon like

Time: 4117.239

peptide was already very uh popular uh

Time: 4120.04

in the study in fact in this area it was

Time: 4122.759

people were very focused on on the study

Time: 4124.719

of this peptide and they were very

Time: 4126.719

focused on the study of this peptide

Time: 4128.64

because it was one of the most potent um

Time: 4131.48

stimulators of insulin release in the

Time: 4134.319

pancreas uh after gastric bass surgery

Time: 4138.239

it will actually increase its amount in

Time: 4141.159

uh circulating levels uh and there were

Time: 4144.279

already like uh some uh studies

Time: 4146.88

suggesting that the the effect of this

Time: 4150.239

gluc glucagon like peptide it was

Time: 4152.799

actually not through the

Time: 4154.88

circulation but more in a localized uh

Time: 4158.719

action onto nerve fibers especially of

Time: 4161.799

the vus nerve so there was already like

Time: 4163.64

someone going um discussion about this

Time: 4167.64

uh and certainly some of these

Time: 4169.839

enteroendocrine cells these um

Time: 4172.56

neuroendocrine cells particularly at

Time: 4174.96

least in uh in animals I think it's more

Time: 4177.239

distal and uh in the digestive tract

Time: 4180.88

that they do release this glucagon like

Time: 4183.64

peptide um one in response to primarily

Time: 4188.4

like all of the macronutrients but

Time: 4191.799

primarily

Time: 4193.32

sugar and then

Time: 4196.239

these glucagon Li peptide one will act

Time: 4198.679

on specific receptors of the nerve

Time: 4200.64

Terminals and then will trigger some of

Time: 4202.36

the behaviors is also thought that uh it

Time: 4204.4

acts at the level of the uh the brain

Time: 4206.88

stem and what it will uh potentiate is

Time: 4210.159

the reduction of uh

Time: 4213.32

appetite so I say that this is a

Time: 4215.44

complimentary question because what is

Time: 4217.08

happening in the first few milliseconds

Time: 4218.719

is the actual choice and the actual

Time: 4221.159

feeling of how you feel about food and

Time: 4223.96

what is happening in the minutes two

Time: 4225.719

hours later is the amount how much you

Time: 4228.679

can eat right and when you should stop

Time: 4232

because after four hours you're going to

Time: 4233.6

come back and feel again the tickling of

Time: 4236.28

the gut because the gut starts uh to

Time: 4238.719

churn again and it starts to call for

Time: 4240.8

food remember it has to fit uh two giant

Time: 4243.719

organisms the host itself but also the

Time: 4246.159

microbes that are inside right so it has

Time: 4249.4

to H keep uh so to speak that that

Time: 4253.36

hunger going every 4 hours or so right

Time: 4256.76

so that's why the hormones are more

Time: 4258.52

acting on the

Time: 4260.28

cyclical uh

Time: 4262.76

circadian way but the transmitters are

Time: 4265.8

acting in this very fast uh responsive

Time: 4268.36

way of uh the precise stimul stimuli in

Time: 4271.719

a specific uh regions of the

Time: 4273.32

gastrointestinal

Time: 4274.88

tract so these neuroendocrine cells are

Time: 4278.08

releasing glp1 or responding to glp1

Time: 4281.4

they're releasing uh glp1 they're

Time: 4283.6

releasing glp1 to shut down transiently

Time: 4287.199

shut down hunger and probably there is

Time: 4289.64

some interaction between the cells that

Time: 4291.48

they are they are having you know the

Time: 4293.6

technical term is autoc cring or they

Time: 4295.719

are having like power cring between the

Time: 4297.679

cells you know neuromodulation but

Time: 4300.08

primarily let's say they respond to the

Time: 4302.159

stimulus and release gp1 onto the nerve

Time: 4305.04

fiber right I have a theory uh for which

Time: 4307.96

I have no direct data but I'd like your

Time: 4309.84

thoughts on um having spoken to a lot of

Time: 4312.04

people that work on nutrition but also

Time: 4314.76

gut bra brain axis today and U

Time: 4317.159

microbiome in previous episodes that one

Time: 4321.199

of the key things that a human

Time: 4324.8

learns somewhat unconsciously but also

Time: 4327.88

consciously is the relationship between

Time: 4331.239

a given food which macronutrients it

Time: 4334.92

contains the ratios of you know

Time: 4337.36

carbohydrate protein and fat the taste

Time: 4340.44

of that

Time: 4341.52

food the amount of that food translated

Time: 4344.92

into to calories but also physical

Time: 4347.32

volume and then the

Time: 4349.4

micronutrients why do I say this well

Time: 4351.36

there are a growing number of studies

Time: 4353.199

showing that the ingestion of Highly

Time: 4354.84

processed food leads to the intake of

Time: 4357.04

excess calories or more calories than if

Time: 4359.719

one consumes Foods in their more natural

Time: 4361.96

form single ingredient Foods or two

Time: 4364.56

ingredient foods are very different than

Time: 4366.639

a food that has a bunch of different

Time: 4368.28

things in it and it seems to me that if

Time: 4371.12

we were to look back into our Evolution

Time: 4373.36

um sure people were making stews soups

Time: 4375.639

and things for a long time um presumably

Time: 4378.159

the sandwich came about through a either

Time: 4380.48

desire for convenience or taste or both

Time: 4383.32

uh you know putting Meats protein in

Time: 4385.159

between two pieces of bread something of

Time: 4386.8

that sort um by definition of a

Time: 4390.48

sandwich maybe some vegetables in there

Time: 4392.679

as well some cheese but that what this

Time: 4396

whole pathway along the gut is trying to

Time: 4398.96

do it seems is to

Time: 4401.6

deconstruct what's coming in what's here

Time: 4404.8

and shaping choices as you mentioned

Time: 4406.679

about food Choice including the amount

Time: 4409.88

of food to further consume and whether

Time: 4411.84

or not to return to that food or to

Time: 4413.32

avoid it and at the extremes it seems

Time: 4416.199

pretty

Time: 4417.159

straightforward and this is a very

Time: 4418.8

classically described case right you you

Time: 4420.92

go and you have the um you know the

Time: 4422.96

kungpow shrimp or you have the lentil

Time: 4425.48

soup at a given place and a few hours

Time: 4427.52

later you don't feel right start some

Time: 4429.36

sweating some gastric distress and you

Time: 4432

develop a pretty broad aversion to that

Time: 4434.36

food or maybe the entire meal maybe the

Time: 4436.8

restaurant maybe even that entire type

Time: 4439.04

of Cuisine depending on how um how much

Time: 4442.199

of a lumper or versus a splitter you are

Time: 4444.36

as we say in science right how much you

Time: 4446.28

you make uh kind of large large bin

Time: 4449.199

decisions or fine bin decisions um this

Time: 4452.12

is nerd speak for saying you know do you

Time: 4454

do you go back to the same restaurant

Time: 4455.239

but order something different or do you

Time: 4456.56

just decide to never go back again but

Time: 4459.639

that's a pretty extreme case right the

Time: 4461.32

other extreme would be you eat a food

Time: 4463.92

it's delicious you feel wonderful the

Time: 4466

the restaurant the people it's wonderful

Time: 4467.96

and you crave more of that food okay

Time: 4469.679

there's all the contextual stuff too but

Time: 4471.719

what we really are talking about here is

Time: 4473.719

how one navigates this whole landscape

Time: 4477.36

of what to put into one's body in terms

Time: 4480.8

of nutrition and trying to understand

Time: 4484.52

how that's impacting everything from how

Time: 4486.4

we feel right away how it tastes whether

Time: 4489.159

or not we conceive it as good or bad for

Time: 4491.12

us whether or not we think it's

Time: 4492.96

impacting our body composition and

Time: 4494.56

health

Time: 4495.56

in ways that we want or don't want I

Time: 4497.679

mean it's pretty complex stuff right

Time: 4500.199

this is at least as complex as going to

Time: 4503.159

the Metropolitan Museum of Art and

Time: 4506.239

looking at a painting and trying to

Time: 4507.679

evaluate whether or not you really like

Time: 4509

that painting or not in fact it's

Time: 4510.6

probably much more complicated than that

Time: 4514.04

but it's what we do and I'm beginning to

Time: 4516.84

get the the asense again no pun intended

Time: 4520

that this pathway that we call the gut

Time: 4522.44

brain axis is really

Time: 4526.679

it's a six sense of a very elaborate

Time: 4530.6

kind so you just touch on a on an entire

Time: 4534.52

realm of a topic which is one of my

Time: 4536.719

favorite topics because at some point

Time: 4538.719

you know uh we as scientists we travel

Time: 4541.04

we travel the world and it started to

Time: 4543.719

become very obvious to me that wherever

Time: 4547.28

I

Time: 4548.12

went we solve this issue of food in a

Time: 4551.92

very similar way whether it's a tortilla

Time: 4555.679

or two pieces of bread which is another

Time: 4557.679

way of a

Time: 4559.159

tortilla uh you have your

Time: 4562.36

carbs and then you add a little bit of

Time: 4564.76

meat or a mushroom and now you have your

Time: 4568

protein or fish or chicken or fish your

Time: 4571.199

chicken the the carnivores will say

Time: 4573.36

Mushrooms not a protein the vegans will

Time: 4575.08

say mushroom beans lentil great protein

Time: 4577.04

we're not here to to resolve that debate

Time: 4579.239

um do as you choose and then you add the

Time: 4583.56

lettuce

Time: 4585.32

or the

Time: 4587.52

vegetables and here's the first stop in

Time: 4590.12

that com the first uh stop in that in

Time: 4592.88

that discussion because this is

Time: 4594.639

fascinating there is some recent work

Time: 4597.36

showing that if you remove the protein

Time: 4603.08

from a diet the animal swallows that

Time: 4605.8

that that

Time: 4607

meal ER the gut evaluates that there is

Time: 4611.08

no protein in there and it stops eating

Time: 4613.84

that meal wow so this is like um

Time: 4616.76

ordering the vegetarian Taco yeah or

Time: 4620.56

burrito or sandwich and then avoiding

Time: 4625.32

that particular taco or sandwich

Time: 4629.92

thereafter because it lacks protein

Time: 4632.08

because it lacks protein okay so foods

Time: 4633.8

that lack animal-based proteins are tend

Time: 4637.28

to be avoided going forward so here's

Time: 4639.12

the second part of that no and in fact

Time: 4643.48

if the protein is low

Time: 4645.56

not completely absent if the protein is

Time: 4647.96

low the animal consumes more of the diet

Time: 4650.679

because it's trying to compensate for

Time: 4652.36

the lack of protein and obviously if it

Time: 4654.679

has sugars or fats that are more

Time: 4656.08

pleasurable it keeps eating that that

Time: 4658.239

that meal right I see if the protein is

Time: 4661

completely absent the animal

Time: 4663.239

avoids that diet

Time: 4667.199

unless unless the diet is very rich in

Time: 4672.88

uh dietary fibers

Time: 4676.719

and the study that uh that I saw uh

Time: 4680.239

which I thought it was fascinating is

Time: 4682.6

that because somehow the microorganisms

Time: 4686.32

in the digestive tract if they have

Time: 4689.239

enough highly digestible fiber now they

Time: 4692.159

turn on the ability to synthesize

Time: 4694.719

essential amino acids really yes

Time: 4698.92

so our gut meaning the neurons in our

Time: 4702.239

gut are essentially waiting for hoping

Time: 4706

we give them a

Time: 4707.84

Consciousness proteins from animal

Time: 4711.04

sources that's

Time: 4712.56

correct if those animal proteins arrive

Time: 4715.52

in the form of meat fish eggs Etc the

Time: 4719

cells signal to the brain craving more

Time: 4721.8

of those Foods until satiety is reached

Time: 4724.88

but in the absence of that protein the

Time: 4727.76

animal quickly learns the person quickly

Time: 4729.84

learns to avoid that particular food

Time: 4732.44

unless there's fiber in it in which case

Time: 4734.92

these gut cells are able to now

Time: 4737.8

synthesize the essential amino acids

Time: 4739.52

microorganisms excuse me the

Time: 4741.159

microorganisms of the gut here we're

Time: 4742.96

talking about the microbiome now can

Time: 4745.48

synthesize the essential amino acids

Time: 4748.12

that ordinarily would come from the meat

Time: 4750.239

chicken fish or eggs that's right so wow

Time: 4754.52

so I'm I'm an omnivore I love meat high

Time: 4759.199

quality meat but I also love vegetables

Time: 4761.679

fruits and starches of certain kinds

Time: 4765.36

but I have friends who are vegetarian

Time: 4768.4

vegan many of them eat a vegetarian

Time: 4770.96

vegan diet that includes a lot of fiber

Time: 4774.159

and you're saying that the fiber itself

Time: 4776.239

can trigger the gut microbiome to

Time: 4778.719

synthesize the essential amino acids

Time: 4780.4

that ordinarily would come from meat but

Time: 4783.159

you also said if I recall that if

Time: 4786.52

there's a small amount of

Time: 4788.52

protein so not zero protein but a small

Time: 4791.159

amount of protein in there then We crave

Time: 4793.639

more of that food in order to try and

Time: 4795.56

get compens protein very interesting

Time: 4798

because this is the first thing that to

Time: 4800.08

me squares the argument based on the

Time: 4803.28

observation that or the hypothesis that

Time: 4805.6

we are essentially amino acid foraging

Time: 4808.679

machines and that complete proteins in

Time: 4811.44

the form of meat fish chicken eggs Etc

Time: 4814.08

you know there are those that argue

Time: 4815.239

those are the quote unquote best forms

Time: 4816.92

of protein right the most complete forms

Time: 4819.32

but there are many vegetarians and

Time: 4820.639

vegans who seem to thrive on a

Time: 4822.36

vegetarian vegan diet and you're telling

Time: 4825.08

me that perhaps their body is their gut

Time: 4827.56

microbiome is compensating for the lack

Time: 4829.36

of whole animal protein that's right but

Time: 4832.48

the people who are trying to limit their

Time: 4833.56

meat intake are what hungrier in general

Time: 4837.08

so you're better off either indulging it

Time: 4840.159

or avoiding it but not having a small

Time: 4842.44

amount of it is that the idea the the

Time: 4844.52

idea is that uh the the the body or the

Time: 4847.44

gut will be able to detect that and then

Time: 4849.4

we'll try to compensate right I see and

Time: 4852.679

this I I actually learned um recently

Time: 4855.48

from a friend Laura dubal at Colombia

Time: 4858.96

who works uh does some beautiful work on

Time: 4861.4

mosquitoes and how it is that they they

Time: 4863.32

feed on uh blood she came for the

Time: 4865.56

gastronauts uh uh series is she from

Time: 4868.88

Leslie V Vel yeah and what I learned is

Time: 4872.88

that when the mosquitoes are not

Time: 4875.52

reproducing they can leave off ATP which

Time: 4878.88

is the energy molecule right uh but they

Time: 4883.4

cannot lay X

Time: 4886.12

they need the protein in order to be

Time: 4888.28

able to lay

Time: 4889.8

eggs otherwise the mosquitoes cannot lay

Time: 4893.08

the egg you know so this leaves us with

Time: 4896.32

a picture of the gut sensing cells these

Time: 4899.6

neurop pod cells as

Time: 4902.159

exquisitely sensitive to amino acid

Time: 4905.36

content in our Foods um which makes

Time: 4908.159

perfect sense and it has not been

Time: 4909.8

published or demonstrated yet sure we're

Time: 4911.8

now in the realm of of new incoming data

Time: 4915.44

we want to highlight this bracket it

Time: 4917.32

bold face and underline it as we're now

Time: 4919

at The Cutting Edge of what's may be

Time: 4921.6

coming um that's right right observation

Time: 4924.32

um but nonetheless very interesting but

Time: 4926.32

there is this fairly long-standing

Time: 4928.199

hypothesis that we are foraging for

Time: 4930.4

essential amino acids because they are

Time: 4931.92

the building blocks of so many important

Time: 4933.48

things in the brain and body and in fact

Time: 4935.639

there is evidence on that and Professor

Time: 4938.6

Steven Simpson in Australia uh in uh the

Time: 4943.4

uh in nutrition uh Research Institute at

Time: 4946.36

Sydney University he is uh main

Time: 4948.8

proponent of these protein leverage

Time: 4950.88

hypothesis you know that and in fact

Time: 4953.44

protein is the most assing uh

Time: 4956.159

macronutrient so that that has been

Time: 4958.44

established and that's why uh normally

Time: 4961.159

we have focused on sugars and fats but

Time: 4963.32

we have neglected a little bit of on the

Time: 4965.36

protein because it's not as pleasurable

Time: 4967.4

as the sugars or fats but what is

Time: 4970

fascinating is that is the most suting

Time: 4972.48

um nutrient and as you know it's like

Time: 4974.6

the most limiting and also like even

Time: 4977.199

commercially is the most expensive right

Time: 4979.52

yeah I certainly have had the experience

Time: 4981.6

of um at one time in my life really

Time: 4984.679

enjoying and even craving sweet Foods

Time: 4987.32

desserts and sugars and things of that

Time: 4988.88

sort and I noticed that over time if I

Time: 4991.52

eat sufficient amounts of meat chicken

Time: 4994.239

eggs fish and which is not to say that I

Time: 4997.08

consume excess amounts of them that my

Time: 5000.239

sugar Cravings go way way down that's

Time: 5002.56

just my personal experience but I know

Time: 5004.52

it's an experience that family members

Time: 5005.96

of mine and others share as well but I

Time: 5008.48

promise you that this was a a fun um a

Time: 5011.6

fun topic right I couldn't uh we

Time: 5013.679

couldn't stop at like just layer number

Time: 5015.52

one layer number two is that in

Time: 5018.32

agriculture we have this instinct to

Time: 5020.84

plant plants that a complement each

Time: 5025.159

other like for instance a classic um

Time: 5028.4

especially native among native

Time: 5030.32

communities is called like the three

Time: 5032.4

Marys uh I believe is a a um pumpkins or

Time: 5038.56

some type of fibers with corn

Time: 5041.08

carbohydrates and Bings so in purely

Time: 5044.639

plant-based diets there's an effort to

Time: 5047.44

get the fiber the sugar and the amino

Time: 5050.8

acids that's right and I grew up uh in a

Time: 5053.159

in a farm my my parents had farms and I

Time: 5055.36

remember when they will plant they will

Time: 5056.679

also like throw in there the the beans

Time: 5058.199

and the beans will wrap around the the

Time: 5060

corn and it just seem like so natural

Time: 5062.88

and that's what you will do because that

Time: 5064.52

what you learn to do but if you think

Time: 5065.84

about it's an instin that we have

Time: 5067.96

developed even agriculturally probably

Time: 5071.08

in the subconscious to cultivate them in

Time: 5073.719

such a way or perhaps the plants taught

Time: 5076.08

us how to cultivate cultivate them in

Time: 5078.4

such a way that now when we put them in

Time: 5080.4

the

Time: 5081.52

plate it just makes

Time: 5084.239

sense ER at the nutritional level

Time: 5087.32

because if you think about it every time

Time: 5089.6

that we go to eat how is it that we

Time: 5091.199

arrange that plate right there is some

Time: 5093.679

rice which is very deficient in in some

Time: 5096.32

essential amino acids but is rich in

Time: 5098.239

carbohydrates right it has some beans

Time: 5101.28

right uh and then there's some lettuce

Time: 5104.36

you know and sometimes we have like for

Time: 5106.639

omnivores people will put meat or you

Time: 5108.48

will put other types of protein in there

Time: 5110.6

right and certainly it varies by culture

Time: 5112.679

time of year food availability and

Time: 5114.639

things of that sort as long as we're

Time: 5116.32

talking about um your upbringing um you

Time: 5120.639

have a fascinating story um so maybe we

Time: 5124.159

could could discuss that for a few

Time: 5126.04

minutes uh where were you born uh I was

Time: 5129.119

born in the Amazonia of Ecuador a small

Time: 5131.32

town called el Cho in Ecuador uh is on

Time: 5134.719

the slopes of um the Eastern slopes of

Time: 5138.08

uh the Andes on the way to the

Time: 5140.199

Amazonia uh in the Napo Province uh

Time: 5144.28

coincidentally was like through the path

Time: 5146.36

from where uh Francisco the Orana in uh

Time: 5150

1542 march on its way to the discovery

Time: 5152.8

of the the Amazon actually passed

Time: 5154.96

through a a trail that later on reading

Time: 5157.639

I realized that uh Native people had all

Time: 5160.199

of these Trails between the Amazonia and

Time: 5162.639

the Andes and the coastal line for

Time: 5166

thousands of years so you grew up in a

Time: 5168.04

very rural yes uh the uh oil had been

Time: 5175.08

detected in the 1920s in Ecuador uh it

Time: 5177.96

was first explorer in

Time: 5180.36

1964 in uh the first uh ER oil um um

Time: 5187.8

well was uh in a town called lag Wago

Time: 5191.04

which now is only like three or four

Time: 5192.719

hours from the town where I grew up but

Time: 5194.679

at that time it was like eight hours the

Time: 5196.719

roads were not good and the first road

Time: 5199.48

passed through it uh in uh

Time: 5204.48

1974 uh I was born in 1983 but I

Time: 5207.4

remember that we used to have like a a

Time: 5209.679

giant um diesel T engine that will give

Time: 5214.32

us a light electricity only from uh 7 to

Time: 5218.6

900 p.m. you know uh I remember when my

Time: 5222.92

father bought the the first uh a um

Time: 5227.56

color television in the in the town and

Time: 5229.719

then neighbors will come to the our

Time: 5231.719

living room and then we will watch

Time: 5233.04

movies wow and this was in the 80s that

Time: 5235.4

was in the 80s right um such an

Time: 5237.96

interesting upbringing so um did you eat

Time: 5242.119

a purely vegetarian diet or you ate

Time: 5244.48

Meats as well where did those meats come

Time: 5246.159

from if you did primarily from a cattle

Time: 5250.04

uh goats ship so how do you go from the

Time: 5254.4

Amazon to a study of nutrition and

Time: 5258.119

ultimately Neuroscience um yeah uh

Time: 5262.639

that's the question right like the

Time: 5264.199

deeper I go the more I question I used

Time: 5266.48

to think that oh it was very simple you

Time: 5268.199

know like when I was um uh specifically

Time: 5272.44

when I was 11 years old

Time: 5274.8

uh my father he was born in

Time: 5277.6

1932 uh by

Time: 5281.32

19 he lost uh his father my grandfather

Time: 5284.88

when he was six years old then he was

Time: 5286.92

given away and he had to go and like

Time: 5289.52

build his his his life uh he was a very

Time: 5292.199

successful entrepreneur but in the

Time: 5294.08

process he had made a lot of uh a lot of

Time: 5296.48

friends and acquaintances so when I was

Time: 5299.56

11 years old I remember specifically

Time: 5303.08

that a friend of of his who was in the

Time: 5305.04

Special Forces stopped by uh our home

Time: 5309.28

because that was the main road that we

Time: 5310.84

go into the Amazon jungle where the uh

Time: 5313.04

folks in the special forces in the in

Time: 5314.679

the military will will be trained and he

Time: 5317.04

stopped by and said like hey roio like

Time: 5318.92

what are you going to do with Diego you

Time: 5320.32

know like I think that is about time

Time: 5321.88

that you know I think that you should

Time: 5323.88

send him to the military school and I

Time: 5326.28

remember in a matter of like literally a

Time: 5328.36

couple of weeks or three weeks I had

Time: 5329.92

given the taken the tests and um I was

Time: 5333.6

accepted into the military school and

Time: 5335.32

then uh I ended up in a military school

Time: 5337.639

and this was the at that time it was the

Time: 5340.08

premier uh military school in the in the

Time: 5341.92

country that alone it was uh with years

Time: 5345.719

you start to understand the context in

Time: 5347.6

which you you developed uh because it

Time: 5350.32

was a a it was a very interesting

Time: 5352.4

context for for a child like just to

Time: 5355.04

give you an idea uh these these uh this

Time: 5358.96

school had the first and the only zoo in

Time: 5362.48

the country so from my uh classroom I

Time: 5365.32

would literally look at the at the at

Time: 5367.28

the Lions and then I think that was by

Time: 5369.76

the second year that I was in the school

Time: 5371.119

second or third year that became that

Time: 5373.56

because the the the city start to grow

Time: 5375.88

and then the the military school is

Time: 5378.119

wrong and then they separated the higher

Time: 5381.04

education for Military Officers they

Time: 5383.08

separated them and they put them in a

Time: 5385.28

different place but that Zoo actually

Time: 5387.08

became the first zoo of the capital of

Time: 5389.199

Kiton wait so you had a zoo with lions

Time: 5391.76

at your school yes and you said you

Time: 5393.92

could could see the lions from your

Time: 5395.6

classroom and they could see you

Time: 5397.199

presumably probably know yeah well I

Time: 5399.96

assume they could see you uh lion vision

Time: 5402.28

is pretty good I don't know what the

Time: 5403.6

resolution is but I'm guessing that

Time: 5404.96

their Vision yeah they they definitely

Time: 5407.239

use their old faction but they are uh

Time: 5409.32

sight sight based Hunters as well so but

Time: 5412.28

I I have a specifically uh one memory

Time: 5414.84

like climbing up I think was like from

Time: 5416.679

the because we had an Olympic pool and

Time: 5418.92

we had all of these events um they they

Time: 5423.08

they the the soccer field uh was the the

Time: 5427.679

field where the uh national team will go

Time: 5430.56

and train on because they didn't have

Time: 5432.679

their own their own um H training

Time: 5436.48

grounds later on they had their own

Time: 5438.159

training grounds so but that was

Time: 5440.159

something that you just grow into it

Time: 5442

right like but you it was with the years

Time: 5444.119

and now especially like that I get to

Time: 5446.08

reflect on it I was extremely fortunate

Time: 5448.52

uh through that experience and that

Time: 5450.44

education and now I'm I'm I'm here

Time: 5452.44

sharing some of the story and hopefully

Time: 5454.48

uh through that inspiring some people uh

Time: 5457.08

especially young people that would like

Time: 5459.32

to go and chase their dreams you know so

Time: 5461.56

you you went to military school in

Time: 5463.119

Ecuador yeah you graduated and you

Time: 5465.44

decided to go to to uh yeah so I was

Time: 5468.88

allowed to become

Time: 5470.4

a so in the military school they will

Time: 5473.119

select uh the top uh Cadets um like I

Time: 5477.239

think was the top 10% and they will

Time: 5478.88

select them and they will put them

Time: 5480

through a special training um so you

Time: 5482.92

have essentially didn't have like what

Time: 5485.08

was a normal summer vacation you know I

Time: 5487.84

will go into a military

Time: 5490.4

training uh ER so for me it was going to

Time: 5493.719

be very not easy but relatively

Time: 5495.96

straightforward to transition into

Time: 5498

officers Academy right like do four more

Time: 5500.159

years like West Point here and then like

Time: 5502.28

become an officer right in fact I I had

Time: 5504.56

a reserves officer degree when I

Time: 5508.48

graduated but two years before

Time: 5512.4

graduating a friend man who uh he prefer

Time: 5516.88

other types of uh careers he said like

Time: 5519.52

you're not going to become a military

Time: 5521.199

right you're not going to go into the

Time: 5523.08

military and he said you should probably

Time: 5525.6

study something that will help your

Time: 5527.04

parents and then I said what will that

Time: 5528.88

be and he said like uh perhaps

Time: 5531.679

agriculture uh and I didn't think at

Time: 5533.96

that time it didn't dawn on me uh that

Time: 5536.84

uh you know people can study for

Time: 5538.32

agriculture and agriculture is like the

Time: 5540.119

base of food um er for all of us right

Time: 5546

and then I said where and then he

Time: 5547.48

mentioned for the first time this

Time: 5548.92

University in zamorano which was founded

Time: 5551.639

with some uh uh some funds that were

Time: 5554.92

donated by um the founder of the

Time: 5557.8

Standard fruit company which eventually

Time: 5559.48

became I think chikita banana Zam

Time: 5562

zamurai and that is an oasis that is in

Time: 5564.8

Honduras outside of tusi Alpa so it's a

Time: 5567.92

boarding school you wear uniform so it

Time: 5569.84

was kind of like military it's very

Time: 5571.44

strict uh you cannot accumulate more

Time: 5573.56

than uh 12 de merits otherwise uh they

Time: 5577.239

will send you home how do you get a Dem

Time: 5579.6

Merit um hey you show up uh two minutes

Time: 5583.159

late to uh work in the morning at 6:00

Time: 5585.36

a.m. in the field and then you just get

Time: 5587.28

to two minutes late one De Mer 12 of

Time: 5589.32

those you're out two demerits two

Time: 5591.199

demerits you're out yeah you get a we

Time: 5593.84

used to get a um they they will check

Time: 5597.4

your room so for instance a guest like

Time: 5599.36

you if you will go there like they will

Time: 5601

give you a every Wednesday they they had

Time: 5603

at seven M they will check your room but

Time: 5605.84

like very meticulously right and if they

Time: 5608.08

found a little bit of a dust on the

Time: 5609.88

window or something to the merits um and

Time: 5613.199

you're going home if you accumulate

Time: 5615.28

enough you will go home right wow um so

Time: 5618.6

it really forms character right and then

Time: 5620.48

do you do that with your kids no I think

Time: 5623.239

that I have become do they make their

Time: 5624.56

beds they do make their beds yeah okay

Time: 5627.36

but that's that was the context and it

Time: 5628.8

was then where I learned about two

Time: 5630.84

things one is where this idea of getting

Time: 5632.92

a PhD because I noticed that most of the

Time: 5635.4

leaders will have a PhD most of the

Time: 5637.28

leaders in the university and I realized

Time: 5639.679

in the United States is one of the

Time: 5641.88

training runs main training runs for

Time: 5643.6

phds and the other one was nutrition I

Time: 5646.52

was a little bit more King on perhaps

Time: 5648.6

going into a Veterinary um uh

Time: 5652.32

school and then uh I had an experience

Time: 5655.6

in a a dairy farm in uh California where

Time: 5659.36

I learned the value of uh nutrition

Time: 5661.28

there was more prophylactic rather than

Time: 5663.4

uh a paliative or like treating the the

Time: 5666.36

cow right um and that kind of convinced

Time: 5669.48

me like to look for a uh training in

Time: 5672.84

nutrition and then a friend of mine uh

Time: 5676.44

the late uh AEL gnat he was able to

Time: 5679.32

connect me with um some uh some friends

Time: 5682.159

and my mentor at uh North Carolina State

Time: 5685.08

University and that's where I ended up

Time: 5686.719

doing my PhD nutrition you know and

Time: 5688.4

that's where like the career be became

Time: 5691.48

and then maybe another detailing there

Time: 5693.32

is that that I uh I was so excited about

Time: 5696.76

taking uh that's where I took my first

Time: 5699.04

physiology class and all of a sudden I

Time: 5702.6

realized that in a way the body was like

Time: 5704.96

a machine right like obviously is a

Time: 5706.44

limited way of thinking but the body was

Time: 5708.119

like a machine and one of the professors

Time: 5710.4

was um a

Time: 5712.639

neuroscientist uh and I took two

Time: 5714.52

physiologies two human physiologies with

Time: 5716.719

uh with him and I was just thrilled by

Time: 5720.76

when he will explain how is it that in

Time: 5722.84

the synaptic terminal there were these

Time: 5725.28

vesicles that had like these proteins

Time: 5727.44

that will walk that vesicle in the

Time: 5729.04

preoptic active Zone and that's how we

Time: 5731.199

make movement you know or something like

Time: 5733.239

that um and I guess I kept that in the

Time: 5735.6

background of my head and when I had the

Time: 5737.08

opportunity to work in the gut uh I

Time: 5739.52

applied that so you were Enchanted by

Time: 5742.08

the nervous system yes yeah as as I was

Time: 5745.8

too I I'm um nothing to me is more um

Time: 5750.6

spectacular than the realization that we

Time: 5753.36

are made up of these little tiny cells

Time: 5756

many different types but that the

Time: 5757.239

neurons essentially govern our entire

Time: 5760.84

experience of life it's just amazing um

Time: 5765.28

well that's quite a journey from uh the

Time: 5767.48

Amazon to uh well this table and and

Time: 5770.679

much and much more of course um thank

Time: 5773.52

you for sharing that uh so you grew up

Time: 5775.8

in a uh let's call it a plr environment

Time: 5779.08

the Amazon at least from the pictures

Time: 5780.719

I've seen very um let's talk about plant

Time: 5785.159

Botanicals and um the idea that maybe

Time: 5789.239

plants for lack of a better way to put

Time: 5791.4

it have a certain intelligence or a

Time: 5795.84

composition that is not random with

Time: 5799

respect to our interactions with them

Time: 5802.239

right uh you described how agriculture

Time: 5805.36

in some places has evolved to include

Time: 5807.76

and ensure the different macronutrients

Time: 5810.88

and essential amino acid intake even in

Time: 5813.239

the absence of animal proteins you said

Time: 5815.48

the pumpkin or the squash the corn and

Time: 5817.48

the beans um what are your thoughts on

Time: 5821.4

Plants perhaps from the Amazon but

Time: 5824.28

elsewhere um too and their capacity to

Time: 5827.04

have things in them um chemicals that

Time: 5830.119

can be uh good for us at the level of

Time: 5832.76

the gut but perhaps at the level of the

Time: 5835.28

the brain or other organs as well yeah

Time: 5837.4

how do you think about plants these days

Time: 5839.08

so the first thing you you you mentioned

Time: 5840.96

there like uh intelligence right I mean

Time: 5843.56

I don't know like if that exact

Time: 5845.679

terminology applies but I I do like this

Time: 5847.88

word wisdom because it's reflected uh

Time: 5850.159

experience right and I said reflected

Time: 5852.36

experience because somehow we are uh

Time: 5855.4

going over the

Time: 5857.28

experience and plants have been many

Time: 5859.84

more Millions years of age on Earth than

Time: 5867.32

any other animal right therefore they

Time: 5870

have had way more time to actually

Time: 5872.679

experience the ground so to think that

Time: 5876.44

they they don't know what is going on um

Time: 5879.679

I think it's a little bit uh perhaps

Time: 5881.719

naive is the word I went to um the the

Time: 5885.239

the main Court of the

Time: 5888.32

uh these Mayan um ruins of kopan at the

Time: 5894.159

junction between Honduras and uh

Time: 5896.4

Guatemala uh this was a very special

Time: 5899.239

city of the of the Mayans and in the

Time: 5901.719

main Court you see like all of the EST

Time: 5903.719

Stellas which are like the main uh

Time: 5906.159

stones of the of the kings of several

Time: 5909.639

dynasties and at the top of one of the

Time: 5912.32

uh the the the stairs of on these

Time: 5915.56

pyramids there is this giant uh

Time: 5919.679

SAA uh tree which is like 650 years

Time: 5924.96

old something like that so that tree was

Time: 5928.04

there before the spers uh landed in

Time: 5930.36

there when the um Mayans perhaps were

Time: 5933.56

still celebrating things or perhaps

Time: 5936.32

right after right so imagine how much

Time: 5938.719

information that a organism has in there

Time: 5942.199

and we will be able to just tap somehow

Time: 5944.599

into that information like

Time: 5947.599

climate uh

Time: 5949.639

fluxuations organisms interactions

Time: 5953.159

movements I mean like so many different

Time: 5955.239

things right like that right now I don't

Time: 5956.92

think that we even have the the language

Time: 5959.8

of being able to understand at the

Time: 5961.8

organismic uh level of how much

Time: 5964.36

information that is stor in one single

Time: 5966.679

one of those organisms but then think

Time: 5969

about uh a um uh a chloroplast for

Time: 5972.4

instance or like one of the

Time: 5974.76

photosynthetic uh organel inside of the

Time: 5977.84

the the cells uh how is it that they

Time: 5980.44

have been shaped for hundreds of years

Time: 5982.84

in those organisms right um and I think

Time: 5986.76

that perhaps in the

Time: 5988.4

future uh this is more of a Sci-Fi right

Time: 5993.04

now but perhaps in the future we we will

Time: 5995.239

be able to harvest that type of wisdom

Time: 5997.28

we will be able to understand a lot

Time: 5998.84

about the uh about the the place or the

Time: 6002.119

Earth that we live in that's Point

Time: 6004.56

number one uh Point number

Time: 6007.84

two is that this plants have been

Time: 6010

interacting and we have been interacting

Time: 6011.8

with plants for hundreds of years right

Time: 6015.32

and obviously we are a consequence of

Time: 6017.199

the environment right like here driving

Time: 6019.199

in in La uh or driving in a major uh

Time: 6023.84

City uh for some of us is just like

Time: 6027.04

second nature right but if you go into a

Time: 6029.96

jungle then all of a sudden it will not

Time: 6031.76

be the same thing right but for somebody

Time: 6033.84

that has been in the jungle for hundreds

Time: 6035.88

of years now all of a sudden they are

Time: 6038.32

able to describe with such a sensitivity

Time: 6041.56

of like how it is that the the the

Time: 6044.08

jungle is uh the makeup of the Jungle is

Time: 6046.96

in there I've seen uh Native people

Time: 6049.84

walking through the jungle without shoes

Time: 6052.56

and right before for stepping on a leaf

Time: 6055.32

stopping and then pointing out like look

Time: 6057.8

underneath that leaf and then like

Time: 6059.239

lifting it out and then a tarantula

Time: 6061

right there like how do you even uh make

Time: 6064.719

sense of that like I don't have the

Time: 6066.56

sensory acuity or the wisdom to be able

Time: 6068.679

to figure that out uh but they do right

Time: 6072.8

and certainly that is a is is just a

Time: 6075.04

level of um sensory perception that uh I

Time: 6078.52

am not equipped with uh but I do think

Time: 6081.599

that there's quite a bit of that

Time: 6083.48

interaction in there to learn and then

Time: 6086.04

of course not only for food but also for

Time: 6088.639

medicine for textiles uh and for many

Time: 6091.119

other uh

Time: 6092.84

functions uh these plants have been part

Time: 6095.719

of the ecosystem of how these people

Time: 6098.159

navigate uh their world all the way from

Time: 6100.719

making a canoe to uh making a backpack

Time: 6104.52

to carry a fish from the river into the

Time: 6106.719

house right so how do you think we

Time: 6109.28

evolved food choices and flavor

Time: 6111.719

preferences I imagine humans you know um

Time: 6115.239

that existed long before

Time: 6117

us being hungry the gut starts rumbling

Time: 6122.679

and there are all these plants

Time: 6124.08

everywhere and some nuts and some

Time: 6125.92

berries and things and so they had

Time: 6128.159

presumably no choice but to consume them

Time: 6131.88

and decide at the level of the the mouth

Time: 6134.199

like that's bitter no that's not good

Time: 6137.119

maybe eventually cook those and see if

Time: 6139.44

that changes the relationship yeah I'm

Time: 6140.92

thinking raw Acorn versus cooked Acorn

Time: 6143

you know yeah um but that ultimately

Time: 6145.96

there was a lot of trial and error and

Time: 6148.48

that these neurop pod cells which surely

Time: 6151.28

existed for a very long time prior to us

Time: 6154.88

played a key role in Discerning what's

Time: 6157.52

in these plants barks Roots nuts berries

Time: 6162.96

we're setting aside Meats for the moment

Time: 6165.4

and other animal proteins and making

Time: 6167.84

decisions about what's nutritious what

Time: 6170.52

is safe what is not safe and that's a

Time: 6173.84

pretty complex process given that some

Time: 6175.92

things might taste okay go down okay but

Time: 6178.96

then you run into serious trouble later

Time: 6181.84

but given the critical importance of

Time: 6184.199

ingesting sufficient amounts of

Time: 6186.44

macronutrients and the need for

Time: 6188.4

micronutrients to survive on a

Time: 6190.44

day-to-day basis much less reproduce

Time: 6195.08

propagate one imagines that you know

Time: 6197.52

this is like almost as essential as

Time: 6200.76

breathing you know and that and that

Time: 6202.92

this

Time: 6203.679

path of in our nervous system of the

Time: 6205.199

neurop Pod cells to the brain for sake

Time: 6207.04

of decision making of yum yuck or

Time: 6212.119

me is perhaps one of the most important

Time: 6215.599

core functions of the nervous system

Time: 6217.56

once you get past the elements that

Time: 6220.44

control breathing heart rate um you know

Time: 6224.199

temperature regulation things of that

Time: 6226

sort I see it is some among the senses

Time: 6230.08

it's at least as important as vision and

Time: 6233.32

perhaps more in terms of making sure

Time: 6235.679

that we survive from dayto day that's

Time: 6238.719

correct and uh here's where I think that

Time: 6240.679

is a large vacuum in

Time: 6243.36

biology uh if I will be with my

Time: 6247.08

biological my training in biology if I

Time: 6250.88

would put my my hat of the training in

Time: 6253.32

biology I wouldn't be able to explain

Time: 6256

much of like how is it that we figure it

Time: 6258.239

out because uh even if you just go to a

Time: 6261.119

Botanical Garden here uh in you know in

Time: 6263.92

the city I will be really hard to figure

Time: 6267.199

out um you know what plant is for what

Time: 6270.92

right yeah what safe to e what safe to

Time: 6273.199

eat not you know uh maybe like the Coti

Time: 6277.44

you are able to figure that out by touch

Time: 6279.52

right so from the biological perspective

Time: 6281.8

I think that there is quite a bit in

Time: 6283.119

there to explore and to learn there is

Time: 6285.44

some very interesting work from the

Time: 6288.36

anthropological perspective so

Time: 6290.679

anthropologists and ER

Time: 6293.599

ER botanists that were studying the

Time: 6296.159

plants um were exploring the jungles not

Time: 6299.52

only the Amazon uh but Borneo Sri Lanka

Time: 6303.159

and so on and so forth and studying the

Time: 6305.48

interaction of native people with the

Time: 6307.239

plants and if uh going through the

Time: 6310.119

literature that

Time: 6311.44

literature there is a pattern that

Time: 6313.32

emerges and like uh the native people

Time: 6316.08

they talk about how it is that they

Time: 6317.92

actually learned from the plants that

Time: 6320

the plants were the ones that were uh

Time: 6322.28

teach them you know so that's why I said

Time: 6324.719

from the biological perspective like how

Time: 6326.48

can we make reconcile that uh I think

Time: 6328.88

that there is still quite a bit of uh to

Time: 6330.679

learn what does that mean to to learn

Time: 6333.48

from the plants I mean there's something

Time: 6334.92

that intuitively makes sense uh and when

Time: 6337.56

you say that I've heard about um you

Time: 6340.599

know looking at plants as teachers about

Time: 6342.96

the local environment you know when

Time: 6344.8

they're open right they're light sensing

Time: 6347.119

when they're closed um but you know in

Time: 6351.639

terms of trans ating some of that to you

Time: 6355.08

know how humans have learned to navigate

Time: 6357.48

given environments navigate meaning you

Time: 6360.119

sort of thrive in those environments um

Time: 6363.119

how do we go about that does it mean

Time: 6364.719

taking plants grinding them up and

Time: 6367.239

figuring out the constituent parts or is

Time: 6370.04

that too reductionist is that going to

Time: 6371.76

leave us with a parts list that doesn't

Time: 6373.52

mean anything sort of like if I split

Time: 6375.08

out all the pieces of a a car or an

Time: 6377.4

airplane um in front of us it doesn't

Time: 6379.679

really tell us anything about that

Time: 6381.76

except what parts make up the thing that

Time: 6384.239

flies yes and that's why I said like

Time: 6386.96

this is more on the anthropological um

Time: 6390.239

studies that have uh you know especially

Time: 6392.679

from scientists that have gone there

Time: 6394.239

learned the language leave with the

Time: 6396.8

natives as natives you know and then

Time: 6399.199

start to understand the dynamic of uh

Time: 6401.48

their culture and their

Time: 6403

interactions um then that's when like

Time: 6405.719

for instance uh how it is that they

Time: 6407.32

classify uh plants the way that they

Time: 6409.52

classify plants is like several levels

Time: 6412.96

more richer than our classification our

Time: 6416.32

our scientific classification by um the

Time: 6419.84

two name system or the variety right

Time: 6421.76

like for instance they take into account

Time: 6423.239

not only the the flavor but also the

Time: 6425.679

shape uh the

Time: 6428.159

location uh how they uh interact over

Time: 6431.159

the year how they react over the year uh

Time: 6433.92

for instance there's this beautiful

Time: 6435.639

plant that

Time: 6437.159

um people call it a the lips plant I

Time: 6441.199

don't know if you have a very if you

Time: 6443.199

Google it you will see it uh it's like

Time: 6445.639

lips literally like lips it has like

Time: 6447.92

these red beautiful lips like uh the the

Time: 6451.159

the plant just looks like lips um and

Time: 6454.28

then people use it for uh pain for some

Time: 6457.08

rashes skin rashes and also like in some

Time: 6460.28

rituals and like most of these plants um

Time: 6463.84

the the way that the natives interact

Time: 6465.639

with the plants is in a sacred uh level

Time: 6468.239

you know there is this respect for the

Time: 6470.84

plant right um

Time: 6473.679

so yeah I think that uh biologically I

Time: 6477.28

think that there is quite a bit in there

Time: 6478.76

to um understand and explore and Define

Time: 6483.04

I do agree with you that like just

Time: 6484.84

thinking about grinding it up and like

Time: 6486.719

just putting it in a in a t perhaps is

Time: 6489

to uh reductionist it could be a

Time: 6491.28

beginning of a understanding but it is

Time: 6494.48

reductionist seems like nowadays in the

Time: 6496.599

field of bioed research and clinical

Time: 6500.48

research that there's a lot of interest

Time: 6502.4

in uh plant-based

Time: 6504.84

psychedelics um you know LSD from Urgot

Time: 6508.679

and

Time: 6510.08

psilocybin

Time: 6511.76

mushroom um and so on and so forth

Time: 6515.239

iasa iboga um so it seems like science

Time: 6519.36

and plants have merged at that level in

Time: 6522.639

terms of clinical implications of course

Time: 6524.199

there are entire fields of plant biology

Time: 6526.159

that are extremely important I think

Time: 6527.36

most people probably don't realize this

Time: 6528.96

but a lot of what we understand about

Time: 6530.599

circadian rhythms

Time: 6533.639

grew nope pun intended out of our

Time: 6536.92

understanding of plant circadian rhythms

Time: 6538.76

first and then it was translated to

Time: 6540.32

mammals your beautiful work by Steve Kay

Time: 6542.599

and and others um seeing the circadian

Time: 6545.8

rhythms in leaf opening and orientation

Time: 6548.679

of the whole plant and and other

Time: 6550.119

features of plants that are mirrored by

Time: 6553.119

the changes in um arousal level in in

Time: 6556.76

mammals including us which is why I'm

Time: 6558.239

always telling people to get sunlight in

Time: 6559.56

their eyes early in the day and to avoid

Time: 6561.239

bright light um in the evening and night

Time: 6564.239

time um so what are your thoughts on

Time: 6568.08

Plants as a source of medicine

Time: 6570.76

psychedelic or

Time: 6572.08

otherwise I think that uh well

Time: 6574.56

traditionally that's where medicine was

Time: 6576.599

um developed from I was at uh the Oxford

Time: 6581.32

uh botanical gardens uh last year with

Time: 6583.639

the family and uh we went into the

Time: 6586.4

gardens and they have a beautiful garden

Time: 6588.159

was established in 1621 I think was the

Time: 6590.52

first uh Botanical Gardens in England

Time: 6593.8

and they have a beautiful uh medicinal

Time: 6596.08

plant collection and there was this very

Time: 6598.159

humble uh a um uh what little sign with

Time: 6604.119

a description in there uh that said in

Time: 6606.32

there that about 80% of medicine it

Time: 6609.679

still comes straight from Plants really

Time: 6613.119

yes uh and if you think about it uh it

Time: 6616.04

kind of makes sense right like because

Time: 6617.639

you know when we think about like the

Time: 6619.199

the medicines that we have been able to

Time: 6620.679

develop which have been phenomenal for

Time: 6622.719

especially for certain chronic

Time: 6624.96

diseases uh but we don't have like a

Time: 6628.239

broad uh repertoire uh of it right um so

Time: 6633.44

I think that has

Time: 6634.599

been obviously a great Advance um in in

Time: 6638.56

our society that we have been able to

Time: 6640.239

identify the molecules uh synthesize the

Time: 6643.44

molecules package the molecules render

Time: 6646.28

them by available in a specific sites uh

Time: 6649.239

and I think that when we are able to

Time: 6650.599

couple that with the rest of the

Time: 6652.599

molecules that the plants through their

Time: 6654.88

I keep saying their wisdom because

Time: 6657.159

somehow they develop their ability to

Time: 6658.96

have not only one molecule but like a

Time: 6661.4

combination of other things that will

Time: 6664.28

provide the full experience of of the

Time: 6666.199

plant right uh for instance uh Gera

Time: 6669.679

mattive you know it's not only caffeine

Time: 6672.079

right because it's very different than a

Time: 6675.159

shot of espresso you know if you take

Time: 6677.56

the whole thing uh it not only gives you

Time: 6680.199

energy but it gives you a full range of

Time: 6682.679

experience that is specific to the

Time: 6684.32

yamatic which is a is a leaf right yeah

Time: 6687.04

it's a distinctly different um sub

Time: 6690.199

subjective experience than coffee and I

Time: 6693

I enjoy both coffee and espresso and yum

Time: 6696.32

mate you um were the one who introduced

Time: 6698.88

me to gu guayusa which is a is a causing

Time: 6703.56

of jate because jate is parensis WUSA is

Time: 6708.4

elix WUSA and it's not as bitter as mate

Time: 6712.88

but it has uh almost as much caffeine as

Time: 6716

coffee and it has antioxidants and other

Time: 6719.28

uh compounds um which give you this very

Time: 6722.639

smooth uh experience so natives in the

Time: 6724.719

in the in the Amazon they take uh a

Time: 6728.84

drink of a WUSA every morning uh around

Time: 6732.28

4:00 a.m. between 4 and 6:00 a.m. they

Time: 6734.88

they wake up early they actually call it

Time: 6736.76

yes like Joo willink early yeah some

Time: 6739.719

people understand that joke he wakes up

Time: 6741.28

every morning3 A.M he post a picture of

Time: 6743.639

his of his Casio watch yep and he's

Time: 6745.56

already training 4:30 so no no guay Uso

Time: 6748.28

required for

Time: 6749.52

Joo and

Time: 6752.199

uh they call it the WIA opina

Time: 6756.56

Ura the hour of the WUSA and is a

Time: 6762.679

ritualistic uh drinking of the WUSA in

Time: 6765.36

the morning and where they talk as a

Time: 6767.52

family of the issues that they have had

Time: 6770.679

the the days before or the week before

Time: 6773.199

like either with other communities

Time: 6774.84

within the family if they have to

Time: 6776.56

reprehend or repr uh one of the children

Time: 6779.32

or talk to them about like some mistakes

Time: 6781.159

that they're making and then they plan

Time: 6784

the the full day of activities uh by

Time: 6786.96

drinking uh

Time: 6788.56

WUSA and uh around 5:30 because they

Time: 6792.679

will boil the W USA right and they keep

Time: 6794.44

boiling the W USA and they just keep

Time: 6795.92

adding uh water to it uh and then around

Time: 6798.96

5 5:30 then they will have what is

Time: 6801.28

called um the is a bowl of um

Time: 6807.159

CH and Cha is this

Time: 6811.32

H Palm date uh very rich in lipids and

Time: 6816.28

fibers uh so they will have the WUSA

Time: 6818.84

because the W USA they say that gives

Time: 6820.32

them energy it heals uh any any pain uh

Time: 6825.32

it shuts down appetite so they will eat

Time: 6827.719

at like 3 p.m. you know shuts down or

Time: 6830.159

modulates appetite as does your brma

Time: 6832.719

those one of the more potent effects

Time: 6834.4

actually of of mate and guayusa is a

Time: 6837.36

mild to moderate appetite suppression

Time: 6840.199

and then if you combine that to Cha

Time: 6842.48

which gives you the lipids and then it's

Time: 6844.76

like a full meal for until 3 p.m. and

Time: 6847

then you they go on a work in the in the

Time: 6849.079

fields interesting so they're

Time: 6850.32

essentially starting the day with

Time: 6851.719

hydration caffeine and then they what in

Time: 6853.96

some circles they call Fat fasting

Time: 6856.28

meaning consuming lipids in order to

Time: 6858.96

Stave off hunger I mean so highest

Time: 6861.32

density source of of of calories among

Time: 6864

the macro macronutrients and is a

Time: 6865.719

vegetable um based diet I guess right uh

Time: 6870.199

are they a healthy culture do they live

Time: 6872.199

a long time uh I am not

Time: 6875.32

uh and I should probably do more reading

Time: 6878.56

that I'm not well educated in what are

Time: 6880.52

the um studies that have follow up uh on

Time: 6884.079

the ER you know and the healthy status

Time: 6887.8

of the community but what I can tell you

Time: 6889.28

is that uh at least colloquially I will

Time: 6892.119

say that the diabetes those type of

Time: 6895.199

issues are not as prevalent but they do

Time: 6898.079

have obviously through like social

Time: 6900.36

exposure they have other things you know

Time: 6902.96

yeah fascinating um this morning ritual

Time: 6906.48

of um conversation about family and

Time: 6909.84

culture and what's needed planning the

Time: 6911.76

day um we had on this podcast as a guest

Time: 6915.079

Dr sain Panda who is um at the sulk

Time: 6917.56

Institute for biological studies often

Time: 6919.639

known for his work on intermittent

Time: 6920.96

fasting Tim restricted feeding but also

Time: 6923.159

um has done beautiful circadian biology

Time: 6925.119

and he talked about um the use of

Time: 6927.599

Fireside Chats um not the sord on stage

Time: 6931.199

but you know uh gathering around fire at

Time: 6933.719

night um is something that has existed

Time: 6936.04

in many cultures where people reflect on

Time: 6937.76

the previous day and discuss issues

Time: 6941.119

social and work issues and sort of

Time: 6943.4

dissect what's happened and talk and um

Time: 6946.679

it's about um building and repairing

Time: 6950.04

relationships um sounds like in this is

Time: 6952.92

it a what is this group is it a rural is

Time: 6956.119

this a yeah native Native Community

Time: 6958.84

because there are like about 70 or so

Time: 6962.599

communities that have been uh documented

Time: 6964.8

in uh in the Amazonia with their own

Time: 6967.36

language with their own traditions and

Time: 6969.36

uh many of them share the same uh type

Time: 6972.28

of traditions and if you think about it

Time: 6974.48

like a podcast is a one way of an

Time: 6976.88

evolution of that conversation right

Time: 6978.56

like where we can have this extended

Time: 6980.079

conversation and get this uh the more

Time: 6983.04

primordial things the ones that we have

Time: 6984.8

them in the prefrontal cortex right away

Time: 6986.76

and like discuss about like well you

Time: 6988.239

know this discovers this identifications

Time: 6990.84

but then we get to the the part of like

Time: 6993.88

what does it mean for the whole

Time: 6995.44

Community yeah there's um doing there's

Time: 6998.8

reflecting and then there's um resting

Time: 7001.4

and recovering right and there is

Time: 7003.32

something about like leaving that for

Time: 7004.96

the next uh generation right you know

Time: 7007.639

yeah passing on of lessons better learn

Time: 7011.119

from the mistakes and success of others

Time: 7013.119

if you can as you go forward very

Time: 7016.56

interesting um if we could I'd like to

Time: 7020

now return to the biology the nervous

Time: 7022.36

system absolutely um and thank you for

Time: 7024.52

that Voyage Through uh some of your

Time: 7026.88

background um in Ecuador fascinating I

Time: 7029.96

um doe for a mug of guayusa um sometimes

Time: 7033.28

I'll mix the two the loose leaf yerba

Time: 7035.679

mate and the guayusa um and as you said

Time: 7038.36

what's how does he feel I really like it

Time: 7040.679

um most of the time it's loose leaf

Time: 7042.84

yamate or cobu yamate um it's um but

Time: 7046.56

sometimes I'll mix in the GU guayusa

Time: 7048.76

leaves um and what I do like as you

Time: 7051.56

mentioned is you can continue to pour

Time: 7053.119

water over them for many hours and it

Time: 7054.8

tastes different as the time goes on and

Time: 7057.639

my guess is you're extracting different

Time: 7059.079

things from it in different

Time: 7060.04

concentrations as time goes on I realize

Time: 7062.36

it's not a precise science you know it's

Time: 7064.4

it's interesting today we're talking

Time: 7065.599

about very precise neurons and methods

Time: 7068.48

of tracing neurons and spe sensing of

Time: 7070.719

specific Amino acids and lipids at the

Time: 7073.599

level of the gut then we're also going

Time: 7074.96

to um more

Time: 7077.04

macroscopic uh View kind of a broader

Time: 7080.56

scale view of the plants having many

Time: 7082.239

things that um need to coexist in um in

Time: 7085.639

certain ratios that the plants have

Time: 7087.52

evolved to create for us um so we're

Time: 7089.8

sort of straddling both both ends of the

Time: 7092.92

of the Continuum and if I could fit in

Time: 7095

their story I not long ago I visited a a

Time: 7098.04

friend a native friend in um a in a

Time: 7101.719

nearby by town and he produces some of

Time: 7104.56

the best uh chocolate uh what I say in

Time: 7108.44

the planet you know because actually um

Time: 7112

uh the plants of theobroma cacao it was

Time: 7115.199

recently documented there was a paper in

Time: 7117.239

science not long ago that it was

Time: 7119.84

domesticated in Ecuador in near uh where

Time: 7122.76

I grew up uh and uh they have done some

Time: 7125.599

tracing and genetic tracing and um so he

Time: 7128.56

produces some of the the best chocolate

Time: 7130.92

like literally like he harvested in

Time: 7133.119

there and then he roasted grinded and

Time: 7136.239

then he prepared uh for us in there and

Time: 7138.92

he the Swiss are saying well the

Time: 7140.56

belgians right are claim the best

Time: 7142.28

chocolate but now we know e Ecuador is

Time: 7144.48

the place for the best chocolate I think

Time: 7145.88

I just got a lot of Swiss and belgians

Time: 7147.36

angry at me for saying that but um it is

Time: 7150.639

do they have a very dark variety I like

Time: 7152.28

the extreme dark varieties you know 95%

Time: 7155.48

even even 100% chocolate if it comes

Time: 7157.84

from a really quality Source can be

Time: 7160.32

absolutely delicious it's like milk

Time: 7162.4

straight from the cow right like and

Time: 7164.48

what he did is like he said like uh

Time: 7166.48

Diego you you have to try it um with

Time: 7170.159

WUSA and he mix uh the chocolate with

Time: 7173.4

WUSA as a as a drink a like as a drink

Time: 7177.56

boy like that will give you wings you

Time: 7179.36

know guayusa hot chocolate yes and

Time: 7183.599

uh and it's a very smooth experience

Time: 7186.48

right like you're mixing this tea which

Time: 7188.84

is for energy with uh chocolate you know

Time: 7192.079

of the best quality so we're not talking

Time: 7194.079

about eating chocolate and drinking tea

Time: 7195.56

we're talking about about melting the

Time: 7197.36

the chocolate in the in the GU in the

Time: 7199.44

guayusa it was something like Wonder

Time: 7202.239

hour kind yeah know of course I couldn't

Time: 7204.679

sleep until like 3:00 a.m. I think right

Time: 7206.36

there's something to do maybe this is

Time: 7207.84

why these um these groups drink the

Time: 7210.28

guayusa so early in the day that's right

Time: 7212.88

yeah and I have to imagine I would need

Time: 7215.119

caffeine at 4:00 a.m. 5 a.m. otherwise

Time: 7219.04

I'd be falling back asleep so yeah um so

Time: 7223.84

back in the gut and nervous system um in

Time: 7226.639

particular within the brain we haven't

Time: 7228.239

talked about the brain so much so the

Time: 7230.96

information from the gut is is sent via

Time: 7233.639

these neurop pod cells up to you you

Time: 7236

mentioned the noo ganglion such a a cool

Time: 7238.92

name for a brain um an a ganglion in

Time: 7241.88

this instance is an aggregate of neurons

Time: 7244.159

so it's a like a batch of neurons that

Time: 7246.84

then send a connection into the brain

Time: 7249.52

what what brain areas do they send to um

Time: 7252.84

and maybe we could describe these by

Time: 7254.199

name but also by function what what they

Time: 7256.079

generally resp are responsible for and

Time: 7259.159

uh probably should be prefaced with

Time: 7261.599

ultimately will go to the entire brain

Time: 7264.079

right everything ultimately connects to

Time: 7265.679

everything it's like Google Maps

Time: 7266.92

everything connects to everything but

Time: 7268.56

but what are some of the primary uh

Time: 7270.199

recipients of that information the

Time: 7273.599

um first hubs into of sensor integration

Time: 7279.159

are in the brain stem you know um

Time: 7282.639

and for instance the nucleus tractus

Time: 7284.88

solitarius is in a specific region

Time: 7287.119

within the the brain the Cal is one area

Time: 7291.119

and and NTS for those that don't know is

Time: 7293.199

involved in regulating hunger and

Time: 7294.8

appetite that's correct um other

Time: 7297.96

functions perhaps but like for instance

Time: 7300.199

um that seems to be an area of sensory

Time: 7302.8

integration for nutrients and when we

Time: 7305.88

say drives hunger or appetite sensory

Time: 7308.119

integration for nutrients I mean what

Time: 7310.159

would be great is if you know people

Time: 7311.96

could understand you know the the

Time: 7313.28

language of the nervous system is

Time: 7314.48

chemical and electrical so when these

Time: 7315.88

neurons are active um we tend to Crave

Time: 7319.159

certain foods you know seek them

Time: 7321.079

literally go to the

Time: 7322.52

refrigerator among the different choices

Time: 7325.159

go to that thing and select that and put

Time: 7328.48

it into our mouth so so presumably it's

Time: 7332.239

driving um reward systems motor systems

Time: 7336.599

I mean it um what we call hunger and

Time: 7338.8

appetite is really a kind of a a domino

Time: 7342.599

effect of a lot of different brain

Time: 7344.079

circuits do we know whether or not the

Time: 7346.04

um uh nucleus tractus solitus um

Time: 7350.36

projects to the areas of the brain

Time: 7351.92

involved in dopamine release and craving

Time: 7354.56

uh yes uh and there has been some

Time: 7357

elegant work uh from several different

Time: 7359.4

uh neuroscientists in this area like

Time: 7362

tracking the the

Time: 7363.56

circuitry uh from there onto many other

Time: 7367.52

uh different areas the hypothalamus for

Time: 7369.52

instance very basic behavioral fun

Time: 7372.36

functions um and the the stum where

Time: 7375.52

there is dopam dopamine release and then

Time: 7377.52

there is this pleasurable sensation and

Time: 7380.719

reward uh there is several other areas

Time: 7383.48

in there that are involved in this uh

Time: 7385.36

sensory

Time: 7386.719

integration uh there is quite a bit of

Time: 7389.159

work still to be done from specifically

Time: 7391.32

from uh the neurop pods there is like

Time: 7393.96

some evidence that they are connecting

Time: 7395.84

directly to um or there are if you put

Time: 7399.639

two papers together is obvious that

Time: 7401.56

there connecting to like some of these

Time: 7403.079

areas of dopamine release uh basal

Time: 7405.599

ganglia in the in the in the brain um

Time: 7409.88

and that's why they're causing this

Time: 7412.04

reinforcing uh effect like in the

Time: 7414.8

lateral hypothalamus and uh other other

Time: 7417.679

areas I do think that

Time: 7419.679

ultimately um there is quite a bit of a

Time: 7423

gap in like different regions of the

Time: 7425.52

digestive tract like we today we just

Time: 7428.96

talk about the esophagus right like the

Time: 7430.48

esophagus I think that is still

Time: 7432.4

there is a little bit of work uh perhaps

Time: 7435.119

I think that Steve liberis has worked in

Time: 7437.199

that in that area another great neuros

Time: 7439.76

scientist uh doing some uh very fine

Time: 7443.84

detailed work in sensory biology uh in

Time: 7446.8

esophagus uh there is quite a bit of

Time: 7450.84

Mis lack of uh precise biology in how it

Time: 7454.719

is that the esophagus specific cells of

Time: 7458.079

the esophagus are inated or like making

Time: 7460.76

sense of the environment and same thing

Time: 7462.719

for the stomach and how it is that

Time: 7464.52

ultimately each one of those regions are

Time: 7467.04

fitting into different regions of uh the

Time: 7469.52

brain uh even then how each one of these

Time: 7473.719

valves I'm fascinated by the each one of

Time: 7476.4

the valves that we talked earli on like

Time: 7479.32

um the gastroesophagal uh sphincter or

Time: 7483.4

the pyos or the oscal junction yeah we

Time: 7487.4

should um illustrate for people I'm not

Time: 7489.52

an expert in the gut by by any means but

Time: 7492.119

what Dr borquez is referring to is that

Time: 7495.44

you know the gut as it extends from the

Time: 7498.92

mouth to the rectum is not just a series

Time: 7501.52

of tubes of different uh diameters uh

Time: 7504.559

but rather they have valves Chambers and

Time: 7507.559

these sphincters that cut off you know

Time: 7509.48

everyone hears the word sphincter and

Time: 7510.76

they always think oh you know anal

Time: 7512

sphincter and then they ah you know it's

Time: 7513.44

like you know Elementary School uh

Time: 7515.28

Middle School humor but but sphincters

Time: 7516.88

are they they literally can close and

Time: 7518.96

open to varying extent um in order to

Time: 7522.639

allow um passage or prohibit passage

Time: 7525.36

from one compartment to the next such

Time: 7528.079

that the um certain things can take

Time: 7530.159

place over time in one one region like

Time: 7532.88

the esophagus or within the stomach or

Time: 7534.92

you know before passing to other um

Time: 7537

other Chambers and so I hear you saying

Time: 7540.079

that critical processing is happening at

Time: 7542.639

each of these Chambers the sphincters

Time: 7544.88

are determining how long that processing

Time: 7547.04

occurs and that distinct sets of neurop

Time: 7549.44

pod cells are likely detecting distinct

Time: 7552.96

of qualities and quantities within the

Time: 7555.639

food chemical qualities and quantities

Time: 7557.559

within the food and relaying that to the

Time: 7559.679

brain that's correct and here's

Time: 7561.48

something that since we're getting into

Time: 7563.079

the future of uh of this

Time: 7565.159

area uh and while there is not direct

Time: 7569.52

published evidence yet I think that is

Time: 7572.239

going to be a a fun

Time: 7574.44

area um so the gut as the brain also

Time: 7579.599

generates these electrical patterns

Time: 7582.079

those electrical patterns um change

Time: 7585.199

depending on fasting versus feeding and

Time: 7587.44

circadian rhythms probably can realize

Time: 7591

jetl the God is asking you for a burger

Time: 7593.599

at 3:00 a.m. and your brain is telling

Time: 7596

the God you know can you please go to

Time: 7598.04

sleep

Time: 7599.199

right um so these electrical patterns

Time: 7603.36

these electrical waves that are going

Time: 7605

into um that are uh being propagated by

Time: 7608.679

the gastrointestinal tract there are

Time: 7610.96

like several different cells like the

Time: 7613.199

ENT neurons are coordinating these these

Time: 7616.88

cells there are also these uh in

Time: 7619.679

interstitial cells of

Time: 7621.719

kahal so uh Santiago ramoni kahal uh the

Time: 7625.719

greatest neurobiologist of all time

Time: 7627.679

that's right it was named after after

Time: 7630

him he actually has I think it's like in

Time: 7631.88

the second volume of his classic uh book

Time: 7634.96

on the uh histology of the nervous

Time: 7637.159

system one of the last figures talks

Time: 7639.079

about like the inovation of the v in the

Time: 7641.32

in the intestine so I'm beautiful for

Time: 7644.04

those that don't know kahal um shared

Time: 7646.32

the Nobel Prize with Camilo Gogi in 1906

Time: 7648.719

they together um developed tools and and

Time: 7651.8

mapped the uh structure of the nervous

Time: 7654.079

system and and it's fair to say that

Time: 7656.44

kahal had Supernatural levels of insight

Time: 7659.96

into the nervous system he looked at the

Time: 7661.36

nervous systems of so many different

Time: 7663.04

animals um in dead specimens the the um

Time: 7668.639

the the joke even though it's not funny

Time: 7671.52

is that many animal species entered his

Time: 7673.679

laboratory very few walked out um but by

Time: 7676.559

looking at fixed specimens under the

Time: 7678.04

microscope and then drawing them in you

Time: 7680.559

know select elements within them

Time: 7682.119

essentially came up with most of the

Time: 7684.119

major hypotheses about how the nervous

Time: 7685.92

system works not just its structure but

Time: 7688.28

neuroplasticity the failure of of

Time: 7690.48

mamalian central nervous system neurons

Time: 7692.28

to regenerate this is why after

Time: 7693.719

traumatic brain injury or stroke there's

Time: 7695.32

often loss of function that doesn't

Time: 7696.84

recover sometimes it recovers but um and

Time: 7699.559

that people who have injuries younger

Time: 7701.559

and can recover certain functions

Time: 7703.599

everything from the direction of

Time: 7706.119

electrical flow through the nervous

Time: 7707.48

system all from looking at tissue that

Time: 7709.76

was not alive no electrophysiology no

Time: 7711.84

behavioral experiments just just raw but

Time: 7715.96

incredible Supernatural seemingly levels

Time: 7719.96

of intuition and insight amazing yes

Time: 7722.96

there is a some quote in uh one of his

Time: 7725.239

books that when he got invited to uh one

Time: 7728.239

of of his friends to England I I don't

Time: 7731.159

remember remember he was a he was a

Time: 7732.92

famous neuroscientist at the time in the

Time: 7734.679

late 1800s that who had helped him to

Time: 7738.04

expose um his work to other audiences

Time: 7742

you know and invited him to to England

Time: 7743.92

so he said in there that it took like

Time: 7745.44

three months to go to that podcast right

Time: 7748.719

like it was a three-month trip trip so

Time: 7751.8

he said that he brought his

Time: 7753.639

um microscope with him with him and in

Time: 7757.76

the in the room he will be able to do

Time: 7760.04

some of these uh uh observations yeah

Time: 7763.639

peculiar guy also known for carrying a

Time: 7766.159

very heavy iron umbrella in order to do

Time: 7769.04

physical exercise on the way to the lab

Time: 7771

he was a he was a very very fit physical

Time: 7773.52

specimen also um reportedly reportedly I

Time: 7778.04

don't know which uh pick it pick which

Time: 7779.719

one um a pretty Gruff person not

Time: 7783.04

terribly Pleasant uh to be around ran a

Time: 7785.76

tight ship um but in any event um so the

Time: 7789.44

cells of the gut are named after some of

Time: 7791.52

them are named after kahal interstitial

Time: 7793.36

cells ofal there you just got a a waltz

Time: 7796.32

into um uh into some Neuroscience

Time: 7799.52

history but critical history so they

Time: 7801.679

they have this emanating uh electricity

Time: 7805.119

right and uh so far these uh and it

Time: 7809.239

seems like the the sprinters modulate

Time: 7812.52

the emanation of this electricity oh

Time: 7814.679

like a like an instrument it it's um and

Time: 7817.599

you probably think like that because the

Time: 7819.76

intestine and maybe here we get a little

Time: 7822.119

bit even deeper into this and I uh read

Time: 7825.239

some work from a

Time: 7827.44

philosopher uh in the UK who was and I'm

Time: 7831.44

going to paraphrase it very largely you

Time: 7833.559

know so please don't quote me but it's

Time: 7836.4

some something along the lines that uh

Time: 7838.36

if we are what we eat the place where

Time: 7840.96

food becomes us and we become food is

Time: 7843.199

should be the intestine right because

Time: 7844.88

that is where food is actually absorbed

Time: 7847.88

right so that is a is a very fascinating

Time: 7851.48

Point number two is that the food enters

Time: 7854.719

us at a

Time: 7856.92

frequency that it will modulate the

Time: 7859.199

entire body

Time: 7860.719

right therefore like the the body H

Time: 7864.76

through these electricity these

Time: 7866.36

electrical waves should be in sync with

Time: 7868.679

also the electricity of the entire uh

Time: 7870.639

nervous system so I think that here's

Time: 7872.44

where in the future I think that there's

Time: 7874.559

going to be a fascinating realm of

Time: 7877

understanding how it is that these waves

Time: 7879.559

of the body and the Brain uh are

Time: 7882.92

synchronized with each other uh because

Time: 7886.52

as we know like for instance sometimes

Time: 7888.28

um when we don't uh we're hungry we

Time: 7891.84

become hungry you know like uh we become

Time: 7895.679

irritated by the fact that we don't uh

Time: 7897.639

have food and perhaps is this dissonance

Time: 7900.559

in the emanation of the electrical waves

Time: 7902.679

between the digestive tract and uh the

Time: 7905.04

nervous system so I think that that is

Time: 7906.92

that's just like one of the one of the

Time: 7909.4

Realms um of

Time: 7911.88

how it is that the brain is connected to

Time: 7914.8

the gut at a more uh organ to organ

Time: 7919.639

level to be able to make us function

Time: 7921.92

ultimately right because um that's how

Time: 7925.84

we are integrating the outside world the

Time: 7927.96

food into our entire system so we can

Time: 7930.4

maintain the entire organism well

Time: 7933.079

certainly our level of alertness is

Time: 7935.28

linked to our level of anticipation and

Time: 7938.8

a lot of our food anticipation

Time: 7941.4

um impacts our levels of arousal AKA

Time: 7945.52

alertness so as you mentioned in the

Time: 7948.199

we're di we're a dial species so in the

Time: 7950.239

middle of the night it's unusual to get

Time: 7951.88

hungry right A lot of these pathways are

Time: 7954.84

shut down digestion is happening at

Time: 7956.719

different rates and um typically our

Time: 7958.719

appetite is greater during the day than

Time: 7960.239

it is in the middle of the night that's

Time: 7962.28

right um but in addition to that you

Time: 7964.88

know it makes good sense to me that what

Time: 7968.599

is going on at the level of our gut is

Time: 7971.52

going to tell the brain did we get

Time: 7973.48

enough nutrients from the previous day

Time: 7975.52

are we in a place of abundance um

Time: 7978.32

there's also the psychological aspect of

Time: 7980.28

gut sensing um and we haven't really

Time: 7982.239

touched on that what are your thoughts

Time: 7984.44

as both a scientist and a human with a

Time: 7986.88

with a gut brain axis on this notion of

Time: 7989.88

a kind of gut intuition you meet certain

Time: 7991.719

people and it sort of relaxes and warms

Time: 7994

you and you want to get to know them

Time: 7995.239

more other people for whatever reason um

Time: 7998.119

you just feel like I don't know

Time: 7999.719

something doesn't feel quite right that

Time: 8001.36

we can sense things at the level of the

Time: 8003.28

body that inform our brain um and no one

Time: 8007.96

really understands that process yet but

Time: 8010.719

we do know that the vagus nerve which is

Time: 8012.8

a you know multi- uh pronged pathway big

Time: 8017.599

pathway it's probably its own major

Time: 8019.4

branch of the nervous system really um

Time: 8021.719

is is sending bidirectional

Time: 8023.52

communication between brain and body and

Time: 8026.84

presumably when we're around somebody or

Time: 8028.76

something that doesn't quote unquote

Time: 8030.32

feel right

Time: 8032.159

the Vegas is

Time: 8034

involved um a few interesting things in

Time: 8037.639

in that area uh I mean in the work of uh

Time: 8040.679

Carl Yun talks talks about it about the

Time: 8043.599

subconscious and how it is that we're

Time: 8045.84

accumulating all of these experiences

Time: 8047.719

that we have been uh passing through in

Time: 8050.4

life is not that they are not a store

Time: 8052.239

anymore it's just that they are back in

Time: 8054.04

the subconscious right and then

Time: 8055.599

ultimately they become part of this

Time: 8058

so-called intuition right like we have

Time: 8060.559

this G

Time: 8061.599

feeling that uh and

Time: 8065.2

[Music]

Time: 8067.559

um if we analyze um some of the

Time: 8071.32

languages I think that I've in past

Time: 8074.559

people have told me in so many different

Time: 8076.28

languages that uh there is this phrase

Time: 8078.88

for God feelings in so many like for

Time: 8080.719

instance in I think Portuguese is fre of

Time: 8082.76

the barriga you know like cold in the in

Time: 8086.36

the in the stomach you get a cold uh in

Time: 8090.599

Spanish we call it a pre sentimento like

Time: 8094.04

a

Time: 8094.92

preeing you know or pre yeah pre

Time: 8098.52

sensation or feeling it will be more

Time: 8100.159

feeling if you translate that as if it

Time: 8102.8

arrives first yes before you're able to

Time: 8105.84

articulate it right so uh there is this

Time: 8109.239

storage in the entire body that gives

Time: 8111.119

you like a depending on the context it

Time: 8113.8

gives you a certain type of uh feeling

Time: 8117

right and that's why we talk about uh

Time: 8119.8

intuition

Time: 8121.36

uh there's also like this this other

Time: 8123.639

aspect of

Time: 8126.559

um how it is that

Time: 8129.719

food

Time: 8132.36

synchronizes that

Time: 8135.079

intuition uh it seems to synchronize

Time: 8138.119

that intuition among two or more people

Time: 8142.76

because if you think about it we have

Time: 8144.639

this ritualistic way of uh serving

Time: 8148.199

something when we we we commonly say or

Time: 8151.36

colloquially say let's go for a cup of

Time: 8153.44

coffee and often what we mean is let's

Time: 8155.76

go and talk about business the future

Time: 8157.48

resolve an any issue but we're talking

Time: 8159.76

about the cup of coffee and we have to

Time: 8161.079

share and people I think that there are

Time: 8163.28

some psychologist that have run some of

Time: 8165.32

these uh studies in which they say that

Time: 8167.76

if um the food that that we eat is more

Time: 8171.04

alike we are more likely to to connect

Time: 8173.28

at least on the moment right so there is

Time: 8175.719

this aspect and that's why we share you

Time: 8178.199

know the food interesting so is the idea

Time: 8180.599

that it's the actual chemical

Time: 8182

constituents of the food that's creating

Time: 8183.96

a a common experience that then allows

Time: 8186.679

people to bond more readily or is it

Time: 8189.28

that the um the specific constituents of

Time: 8193

the food are actually driving bonding

Time: 8196.08

per se I mean it yeah and we go back to

Time: 8198.679

if we are what we eat then if we eat the

Time: 8201.359

same thing we should be more alike to

Time: 8203.76

each other right that's why you know

Time: 8206.319

like in communities uh you share the

Time: 8208.599

food in fact uh in like if you go into

Time: 8212

certain uh specific uh communities you

Time: 8215.12

pass around uh the food you pass around

Time: 8217.319

the the drinks you know and is a it's

Time: 8220.599

very common to share right yeah and

Time: 8222.559

certainly in romantic bonding um there

Time: 8224.96

are many factors of course but um the

Time: 8228.599

kind of uh more basic functions of food

Time: 8231.679

sex and sleep represent the common

Time: 8234.92

places of

Time: 8235.96

bonding initially right and conversation

Time: 8238.8

of course and values Etc right not to

Time: 8241.28

dismiss any of those they're essential

Time: 8242.84

as well but in terms of you know um

Time: 8245.599

feelings of safety that's right feelings

Time: 8248.639

of um communing with somebody right the

Time: 8252.639

these very basic biological functions

Time: 8256

yeah and in business too right like

Time: 8257.92

people there has been a studying like

Time: 8260.12

behavioral uh Economist they talk about

Time: 8262.8

how it is that business are more likely

Time: 8264.639

to happen when they are like made over a

Time: 8266.639

food or launch or things like that right

Time: 8268.599

like there's this synchronicity in the

Time: 8270.24

decision making

Time: 8272.319

and here is a a third uh dimension on

Time: 8275.92

this area that it has not been uh well

Time: 8279.04

explored but I suspected in the near

Time: 8281.24

future it will begin to be explored I

Time: 8284.12

read a while ago a very elegant paper

Time: 8288.559

from uh Walter

Time: 8291.439

Canon uh so you may want to expand on uh

Time: 8294.92

who Walter Canon was but uh one of the

Time: 8299.439

uh found figures of the study of

Time: 8302.88

physiology yeah autonomic phy physiology

Time: 8306

right uh chair of physiology at Harvard

Time: 8308.679

uh 1920s

Time: 8310.76

1930s

Time: 8312.639

uh author of the wisdom of the body you

Time: 8316

know uh he has a paper or he published a

Time: 8320.2

paper I believe in the

Time: 8323.04

1930s it's called voodo

Time: 8327

death um Voodoo death and I remember

Time: 8330.319

when I found that title I was like oh

Time: 8332.599

this is something to sit down and

Time: 8335.2

dissect you know yeah good title good

Time: 8337.359

title if you want somebody to read it

Time: 8339.439

good title and he essentially the gist

Time: 8342.12

of it let me see if I can uh if I can do

Time: 8344.96

a little bit of justice but obviously I

Time: 8346.84

will chop most of the details but um the

Time: 8350.719

um the gist of the paper is that in some

Time: 8355.479

observations in some native tries I I

Time: 8357.639

believe it was in in Africa

Time: 8360.96

that if uh a young people especially

Time: 8366.04

young

Time: 8367.559

youngsters uh if they were uh

Time: 8371.16

frightened by a shaman that they will

Time: 8374.679

not perform a certain thing a certain

Time: 8377.519

task right uh they enter a level of

Time: 8381.639

psychosis so to speak that could cause

Time: 8385.599

death like the cast an spell right um

Time: 8389.439

and uh that's why called Buu death what

Time: 8393

Canon goes and describes is there is an

Time: 8395.6

activation of uh the vus nerve and the

Time: 8398.72

peripheral nervous system that is a

Time: 8400.68

hyperactivation that is going through

Time: 8402.68

the subal level of Consciousness and

Time: 8406.2

that in some of these tribes uh that's

Time: 8408.96

what at least that's what he explains

Time: 8411.24

that is happening and I believe that he

Time: 8412.76

did some experiments in um in some

Time: 8415.56

animals but what he was saying is that

Time: 8417.2

there is a hypertonic activation of the

Time: 8419.2

peripheral nervous system when there are

Time: 8421.16

these uh spells that are casted by a

Time: 8425.56

member of the tribe that is in a higher

Time: 8427.479

or more Superior more influential uh

Time: 8430.479

position that if the other a uh member

Time: 8434.76

uh especially if it is pair with

Time: 8436.52

something right like if you say like if

Time: 8438.96

you go outside and don't listen to what

Time: 8442.52

I just told you and you see a black cat

Time: 8445.28

those two things uh match together and

Time: 8448.6

now you're hyperactivated right and

Time: 8450.84

become superstitious about it but it is

Time: 8453.399

what Walter Canon goes to explain is

Time: 8455.399

there is a hyperactivation of the

Time: 8456.96

peripheral nervous system obviously

Time: 8458.319

there is probably more details in there

Time: 8460.76

uh but the the the the paper um really

Time: 8464.04

highlights an area of exploration that

Time: 8465.84

we don't know about is a a threshold of

Time: 8469.72

subconsciousness of the nervous system

Time: 8471.52

how it is driving us to have

Time: 8474.399

Superstition to uh Drive instinctively

Time: 8479.04

to go and consume certain things things

Time: 8481.24

or behave in certain uh in certain ways

Time: 8483.96

right yeah so it's um it sounds like

Time: 8485.8

it's par Association learning through

Time: 8488.319

statements cognition but that's enacted

Time: 8490.92

through the Vegas in order to control

Time: 8493.439

the organs of their periphery that's

Time: 8495.04

nerd speak for um if we hear and believe

Time: 8498.28

that certain events will cause certain

Time: 8500.84

changes in our

Time: 8502.2

physiology they can in some instances

Time: 8505.439

become capable of that eat this food on

Time: 8507.8

this at this location and you'll get

Time: 8509.479

sick eat this food at this location

Time: 8511.08

you'll feel better cor and it's learned

Time: 8513.16

Association there's not and ultimately

Time: 8515.359

it's physiological but um it sounds like

Time: 8517.88

it's subject to a lot of learning

Time: 8519.6

effects as long as we're talking about

Time: 8520.92

the Vegas I think it's a great

Time: 8522.28

opportunity um to just mention that a

Time: 8524.72

lot of people um understandably think

Time: 8527.2

that the Vegas nerve activation is

Time: 8529.2

always about calming of the nervous

Time: 8531.2

system and indeed it's the N the Vegas

Time: 8534.04

is um placed under the umbrella of a

Time: 8536.76

parasympathetic um pathway but I think

Time: 8539.92

it's very important for people to know

Time: 8541.24

that both experimentally and clinically

Time: 8544.359

if the vagus nerve is stimulated you get

Time: 8546.72

exactly the opposite effect you get

Time: 8548.64

arousal effects this is um commonly

Time: 8551.72

known in Labs that do uh physiology of

Time: 8554.6

different kinds um it's in the clinical

Time: 8557

context people with depression are

Time: 8558.8

sometimes treated with vagal nerve

Time: 8560.479

stimulators and it certainly isn't

Time: 8562.2

driving more sedation more depression of

Time: 8564.16

the nervous system it drives alertness

Time: 8566.319

and arousal so we have to I think make

Time: 8569.72

sure that we looked at the Vega system

Time: 8571.68

and describe the vagal pathway as one

Time: 8575.16

that can both induce states of calm of

Time: 8578.24

ease rest and digest as it's sometimes

Time: 8580.439

called but also states of arousal and

Time: 8582.76

alertness even fear and so I think of

Time: 8585.52

the Vegas as a super highway of a bunch

Time: 8588.24

of different Pathways with lots of

Time: 8589.68

inputs and outputs that's highly subject

Time: 8591.479

to learning and um indeed the Vegas can

Time: 8594.479

slow heart rate you know down through

Time: 8597.16

numbered things like long exhale

Time: 8598.6

breathing earlier we were talking about

Time: 8600.52

stress modulation something my labs

Time: 8602.16

worked on extend your exhales that's

Time: 8605.08

that's the most basic way um

Time: 8606.84

physiological size two inhales followed

Time: 8608.68

by a full exhale to lungs empty um these

Time: 8611.12

are core physiological mechanisms known

Time: 8613.479

to activate the Vegas and lead to

Time: 8614.88

calming but the Vegas I I look at the

Time: 8617.24

Vegas as kind of a uh including both an

Time: 8620.56

accelerator of sorts accelerator based

Time: 8623.04

Pathways in terms of arousal and and

Time: 8625.12

breaks um and it and probably our basil

Time: 8628.6

level of vagal activation reflects sort

Time: 8631

of the RPM of our system how much are we

Time: 8634.04

are we calm or are we humming at a

Time: 8635.76

higher level of activity such an

Time: 8638.12

interesting pathway such an interesting

Time: 8640.08

area of the nervous system and we don't

Time: 8641.84

really understand yet um even the the

Time: 8645.88

major branches and pathways are just now

Time: 8649.279

finally beginning to be understood it's

Time: 8652.04

it's we're we're we're on um we're on

Time: 8655.439

Virgin beaches yes and right now that I

Time: 8658.56

I hear you uh bringing up the coming for

Time: 8660.92

instance there is a branch of the vus

Time: 8663.08

that inates the ear the inner ear you

Time: 8666.2

know and that's why uh it is belief and

Time: 8668.92

I think there is a little bit of

Time: 8670.24

evidence out there that how a certain

Time: 8672.279

music at a certain frequency will calm

Time: 8674.359

you down because it is immediately like

Time: 8676.84

brings uh the it starts to make the Vos

Time: 8681.92

vibrate at a certain frequency yeah and

Time: 8684.24

huming um has been linked to vasod

Time: 8686.72

dilation which is associated with a

Time: 8688.96

calming effect whereas activation of the

Time: 8691.52

sympathetic arm of the autonomic nervous

Time: 8693.24

system or the kind of what sometimes is

Time: 8695.359

referred to as fight or flight but it's

Time: 8696.84

involved in other things causes phasal

Time: 8698.8

constriction and if you think about it

Time: 8700.64

like in several uh religious practices

Time: 8702.84

there is the humming right uh there is

Time: 8705.04

the uh singing there is the sound the

Time: 8707.76

sound plays a big role in running there

Time: 8710.24

is a certain frequency that makes you

Time: 8711.96

run uh make calms you more and makes you

Time: 8714.359

run better you know is that right yeah

Time: 8717.16

uh there is some evidence at least among

Time: 8719.12

Runners that they prefer a certain type

Time: 8721.24

of uh frequency for for the running

Time: 8723.76

right so a certain uh pace of running or

Time: 8726.56

breathing and the and the sound the

Time: 8729.08

specifically the sound the sound of

Time: 8730.72

their feet yeah no the sound of uh the

Time: 8732.72

music like if you if you play a certain

Time: 8734.92

uh certain music right and probably the

Time: 8737.24

sound of their feet too right like it's

Time: 8738.8

just that it has not been explored right

Time: 8742.439

it's fascinating and you know so much of

Time: 8744.64

what I think about when I think about

Time: 8746.12

the nervous system is the fine grain

Time: 8748.16

processing of you know of color of light

Time: 8751.04

or what but when it comes to our

Time: 8752.64

feelings of well-being our levels of

Time: 8754.399

arousal sleep Etc it's the rather um I

Time: 8758.359

don't want to call them crude because

Time: 8759.6

they're really sophisticated they evolve

Time: 8761.2

to be sophisticated but these um kind of

Time: 8763.52

macroscopic signals like light coming in

Time: 8765.88

in the morning has these you know long

Time: 8768.96

wavelength and short wavelength contrast

Time: 8772.08

that's what tells our brain it's morning

Time: 8774.8

that's right it's the orange red blue

Time: 8776.76

contrast even if there's cloud cover

Time: 8778.319

it's the it's the difference between

Time: 8779.92

those to um different qualities of light

Time: 8784.24

that says it's morning and when the sun

Time: 8785.96

is overhead you don't see that yellow

Time: 8788.279

blue or orange blue red blue contrast

Time: 8790.64

but you see it again at Sunset and it

Time: 8792.12

informs so um it sounds like the

Time: 8795.08

combination of specific chemicals in the

Time: 8796.84

gut tell us this is good pursue more of

Time: 8799.439

this and maybe even the place where you

Time: 8800.8

found it is is a good place um as

Time: 8803.359

opposed to and the opposite is probably

Time: 8804.88

also true yes like that's an entire new

Time: 8808.04

domain of uh the the Digest

Time: 8810.84

the sensory system in the digestive

Time: 8812.8

tract that we haven't even be to uh um

Time: 8817.96

articulate it memory how do we remember

Time: 8821.8

like what was that first meal like in

Time: 8823.88

the ratat uh

Time: 8825.76

movie from when we were children right

Time: 8828.2

like it was very different like uh I

Time: 8830.88

still remember like some of the very

Time: 8833.16

simple humble meals that my mother will

Time: 8835.6

make but it's just Priceless for me

Time: 8837.439

right uh I whenever I go home and it's

Time: 8840.399

like I I spec without asking sometimes

Time: 8843.56

my mother uh will prepare those for me

Time: 8846.8

and it's like it just brings you back

Time: 8849.96

when you were that age right yeah the

Time: 8852.479

memory system is tightly linked to taste

Time: 8855.04

and smell there's no question about it

Time: 8857.2

and then like the how it is that the gut

Time: 8859.08

triggers that uh those Sensations or

Time: 8862.2

further reinforces those Sensations we

Time: 8864.72

haven't even begin to articulate and

Time: 8866.96

when I said articulate because we don't

Time: 8868.8

even have the language to refer to these

Time: 8871.08

things you know that's why at the very

Time: 8873.399

beginning we were talking of the in our

Time: 8875.04

conversation about the axis you know and

Time: 8878.24

uh that we don't say like the nose brain

Time: 8880.76

the nose brain axis right like we just

Time: 8882.88

went for what we had at that time and I

Time: 8885.88

do think that the language will continue

Time: 8887.56

to evolve for us to be able to

Time: 8889.68

articulate more precisely more richly

Time: 8893.319

more elegant more you know in so many

Time: 8895.96

different uh ways how it is that um a

Time: 8900.68

the organs communicate with each other

Time: 8903.279

to make us who we are and in there um in

Time: 8907.64

one of our papers uh we quoted uh these

Time: 8910.72

uh beautiful passages from uh the book

Time: 8915.2

Memoirs of by

Time: 8917.04

stomach uh it was greeting in

Time: 8920.279

1853 by a French by person by what it

Time: 8924.92

says in the first page by the minister

Time: 8927.76

of interior

Time: 8930.16

because all of those who eat May read or

Time: 8932.2

something like that and then on page 21

Time: 8934.88

it goes to describe the dialogue between

Time: 8936.8

the gut and the brain and it says like

Time: 8939.359

that how it is that the gut communicates

Time: 8941

to the brain with a

Time: 8942.72

rapidity uh through uh these two sets of

Time: 8946.479

electrical wires that communicate uh the

Time: 8949.96

arrivals of the day as we may eat uh

Time: 8954.52

with the Precision and rapidity to the

Time: 8956.56

brain uh so the brain will make its own

Time: 8959.92

uh feelings and um

Time: 8962.84

Impressions and then he said that uh

Time: 8966.64

when he talking from the perspective of

Time: 8969

the stomach it says like when I grew a

Time: 8972.96

morose like meaning I'm not working in

Time: 8976.24

digestion then the brain also grew

Time: 8978.96

irritable and petulant you angry angry

Time: 8982.88

it's so interesting to look at Human

Time: 8984.6

Experience from the directionality of

Time: 8987.12

gut to brain rather than brain to gut um

Time: 8990.279

that's right and and you know as I do

Time: 8994.319

from time to time you know pay attention

Time: 8996.399

to what's happening in the landscape of

Time: 8999.12

wellness and mental health and physical

Time: 9001.12

health a lot of what um you see out

Time: 9005.84

there in terms of you know Highly

Time: 9007.68

Educated people um who have thought very

Time: 9011.16

deeply about how to navigate

Time: 9012.6

decisionmaking and lots of different

Time: 9014.479

domains of life and to do it in a way

Time: 9016.16

that really honors the our own

Time: 9018.359

individual preferences and needs needs

Time: 9020.6

um people like Martha Beck I don't know

Time: 9022.2

if you've heard of her but she exists in

Time: 9024.12

the she has triple degreed from Harvard

Time: 9026.479

um but has uh talked a lot about um

Time: 9030.04

learning to sense one's way into and

Time: 9033.64

through decisions through intuition that

Time: 9036.68

is more of the body and is more of

Time: 9040.479

particular brain circuits than our

Time: 9042.92

analytic like you know pros and cons

Time: 9044.92

lists um you know because pros and cons

Time: 9047.24

lists and obviously important metrics

Time: 9049.52

like OB Ive metrics like oh is this the

Time: 9051.479

right salary the right location the

Time: 9053.04

right you know dem you know all the all

Time: 9054.6

the things that matter for decision-

Time: 9055.92

making and we're trained in that in in

Time: 9058.08

school in in the United States and in

Time: 9060.439

many many areas of the world as well of

Time: 9062.64

course um and that's critical but that

Time: 9065.399

there's this other training there's this

Time: 9066.96

other learning of self that can be

Time: 9068.68

extremely useful and it almost always

Time: 9070.399

comes back to body first then to

Time: 9073.96

cognition and decision-making and I feel

Time: 9076

like uh modern humans are are trying to

Time: 9078.6

learn how to um run the the analysis of

Time: 9082.6

Life decision-making through uh this I

Time: 9086.16

guess more ancient axis so the again the

Time: 9089.319

intelligence of these what used to be

Time: 9091.2

called more primitive systems but I

Time: 9093.24

don't think they're primitive at all and

Time: 9094.92

talking with you today it's clear to me

Time: 9096.479

that these are highly sophisticated

Time: 9098.64

systems just as sophisticated as any

Time: 9100.64

forbrain pathway involved in um

Time: 9103.2

analyzing say like probability or

Time: 9105.2

something and that's why I like to

Time: 9107

highlight uh um

Time: 9111

the example of having a nice meal and

Time: 9114.359

having a nice conversation at the at the

Time: 9116.6

at the same time you know if you go to a

Time: 9118.76

nice restaurant and you have a nice meal

Time: 9120.88

while you're having a nice conversation

Time: 9123.319

and you pay attention to it then it

Time: 9126.08

brings humility to your body to know

Time: 9128.319

like how much your body is doing for you

Time: 9130.92

to be able to just Express a tiny little

Time: 9133.319

bit and having like some sort of like

Time: 9136.319

highly intellectual sophisticated

Time: 9138.359

conversation while you're able to put in

Time: 9140.76

the precise amount of lettuce inside of

Time: 9144.16

your mouth and chew it in the right way

Time: 9147.439

and like adjust it with a little bit of

Time: 9149.479

water and maybe a little bit of wine and

Time: 9151.92

understand what is cleansing your pette

Time: 9153.6

and like you know putting down the the

Time: 9156.359

napkin and so on and so forth uh without

Time: 9159.2

going to the restroom every time that

Time: 9161

you feel like going to it right there is

Time: 9163.56

an entire sophistication of of the body

Time: 9166.479

just to have something like as simple as

Time: 9168.24

a catchup convers ation you know do you

Time: 9171.8

think that our ability to sense into gut

Time: 9175.12

sensing more um to really hear and

Time: 9179.84

respond to the signals from the gut is

Time: 9182.12

something that we can learn even as

Time: 9184.12

adults simply by paying more

Time: 9186.52

attention yes and I think that here's

Time: 9188.68

the the concept that I usually uh you

Time: 9191.84

know that uh when we talk about topics

Time: 9194.88

like meditation you know is that

Time: 9196.6

self-care and that self self-care is

Time: 9198.56

listening to your own uh body right how

Time: 9200.88

it is that the body is feeling like uh I

Time: 9203.96

don't know you know I grew up in a my

Time: 9206.279

mother will tell me like or you know

Time: 9208.439

family will tell you if you feel like

Time: 9210.52

going to the restroom uh and uh to pee

Time: 9214.2

for a bio break uh don't hold it for too

Time: 9216.439

long because it might be bad right like

Time: 9218.24

and I think that just learning that part

Time: 9220.319

of like listening to to the body is an

Time: 9222.76

essential aspect it's just that we're

Time: 9224.72

not constantly doing it over learning

Time: 9227.12

about how we are moving our career

Time: 9228.8

forward yeah so much of what we're

Time: 9231.16

taught in order to um be high achieving

Time: 9234.72

and forward moving in life um in modern

Time: 9238.04

culture is about learning to override

Time: 9239.8

the signals from the body but it seems

Time: 9242.359

that um learning to listen to the

Time: 9244.6

signals from the body is is key to being

Time: 9246.72

a healthy human being yes and here I

Time: 9249.2

have an example uh years ago I used to

Time: 9251.84

run quite a bit um and I remember that

Time: 9256.76

after I had ran a marathon uh I took a a

Time: 9260.12

break for like a few weeks and then I

Time: 9262.08

got back on the on the trail and I began

Time: 9264.04

running and I was like you know I don't

Time: 9265.84

need to warm up for three or four weeks

Time: 9267.8

up to like get back into speed right and

Time: 9270.439

I remember that I started to feel like

Time: 9272.92

um that my right uh the soul of my right

Time: 9276.56

food was a little bit like bothering me

Time: 9278.56

like but like almost imperceptible and I

Time: 9281.479

was like no you know you just can't you

Time: 9283.6

just have to keep going you know and my

Time: 9285.96

wife elain told me like H you know you

Time: 9287.96

should pay attention take a break you

Time: 9289.8

know and I just kept running and I

Time: 9291.56

remember specifically that one time I

Time: 9293.439

went to run and say like I can put I can

Time: 9295.6

put in 80 miles that I think that I was

Time: 9297.8

running at like 7 Minutes 7:15 a mile or

Time: 9300.52

something like that and uh I began

Time: 9303.399

running it and I I after a mile I was

Time: 9305.96

feeling pumped you know uh two miles

Time: 9308.439

three miles I was like and then I

Time: 9310.56

usually will go and do four miles and

Time: 9312.2

then turn around and come back I got a

Time: 9314.88

mile mile four and I fell crack and I

Time: 9319.399

couldn't not walk anymore uh there was a

Time: 9322.24

hair fracture that is almost

Time: 9324.64

imperceptible in an x-ray but Bo that

Time: 9327.8

you cannot move your foot anymore I had

Time: 9329.68

to limp for four miles all the way back

Time: 9331.88

to the car uh because I didn't even have

Time: 9334.439

my phone and I H never forgot that uh

Time: 9337.96

for next time um you got to pay

Time: 9339.72

attention to your body you know your

Time: 9341

body is simply telling you like uh

Time: 9343.68

something is a little bit off just don't

Time: 9346.24

keep pushing it you know and I I

Time: 9348.76

specifically remember because I kept

Time: 9350.16

running and and I couldn't I had to

Time: 9352.6

literally limp all the way back to the

Time: 9354.479

car you know well Diego um I must say

Time: 9358.96

that among the many things that you've

Time: 9360.72

shared with us today and taught us about

Time: 9363.08

the gut and its ability to influence the

Time: 9365.12

brain um and the incredible things that

Time: 9367.24

are happening at the level of biology

Time: 9369

and physiology of the gut um Chief among

Time: 9373.04

them is the message that we should all

Time: 9377.72

pay more attention to our sensing at the

Time: 9380.279

level of our gut and nowadays we hear so

Time: 9382.8

much about the gut microbiome such that

Time: 9385.319

fortunately I think most people are

Time: 9386.6

starting to appreciate that the gut

Time: 9388.12

microbiome is vital for all aspects of

Time: 9390.76

health and that there are things that we

Time: 9392.6

can do to feed that microbiome fiber

Time: 9394.359

intake fermented food intake and so

Time: 9396.279

forth but clearly based on what you've

Time: 9399.2

told us today that even just paying a

Time: 9401.52

little bit more attention to what our

Time: 9404.319

gut is telling us at the level of

Time: 9407.08

feeling Good Feeling less good because

Time: 9410.12

the signs and signals are subtle I

Time: 9413.84

realize can really help us make better

Time: 9416.479

decisions and help us um decide not just

Time: 9420.24

what foods to eat or not eat how much to

Time: 9422.279

eat or not eat but um also how to

Time: 9424.76

navigate higher order decisions if you

Time: 9427.359

will um about who to spend time with

Time: 9430.279

what to do what not to do moving along

Time: 9433.279

the decision tree of life and along

Time: 9436.6

those lines I I want to thank you for

Time: 9438.439

making the decision to come here here

Time: 9439.72

today uh I certainly um am happy that we

Time: 9443.479

decided to do it it's something that's

Time: 9444.64

been a long time coming I really see you

Time: 9446.6

as one of the true Pioneers in this area

Time: 9448.439

of trying to dissect the understanding

Time: 9451.279

of the gut brain axis heal the brain

Time: 9453.399

through the gut understand and modulate

Time: 9455.76

our emotions uh at the level of gut

Time: 9458

sensing and while there are other

Time: 9460.319

researchers in this area um I refer to

Time: 9463.479

you as a Pioneer because you've really

Time: 9465.479

undergone this incredible trajectory

Time: 9467.24

from the Amazon through nutrition

Time: 9469.16

science into neuroscience and now we're

Time: 9472.16

getting a little bit into psychological

Time: 9473.88

science and I'm excited for what comes

Time: 9475.76

next I only ask uh one thing which is

Time: 9478.6

that as you make these discoveries that

Time: 9481.56

you come back and talk to us about them

Time: 9483.6

uh so that uh we can learn more about

Time: 9485.319

your incredible work so Andrew I want to

Time: 9488.479

say h a few things the first thing is

Time: 9490.8

that I I feel deeply honored by uh your

Time: 9493.279

invitation and thank you so much for uh

Time: 9495.8

the opportunity I I am just simply uh

Time: 9499.64

representative of uh the people that uh

Time: 9503.319

work uh with me and uh work uh with us

Time: 9508.12

you know I'm just an an ambassador and

Time: 9510.88

they get the majority of the credit for

Time: 9513.88

their dedication to help us understand a

Time: 9517.2

little bit more uh of uh the body and

Time: 9520.64

how it is help us to navigate the world

Time: 9522.8

that we live in so I want to thank uh

Time: 9526.479

you for the opportunity I want to thank

Time: 9528.68

uh the people that have made this

Time: 9530.319

possible also like um the people that

Time: 9533.279

are along the way or the institutions

Time: 9534.76

that are along the way uh have a help

Time: 9539.52

fund this um Endeavor you know my home

Time: 9544.479

institution at du I'm deeply grateful

Time: 9546.68

because my career has developed there uh

Time: 9549.72

and uh some of my mentors Roger little

Time: 9552.399

Andrew mure and the people that have

Time: 9554.76

helped me along the way and then finally

Time: 9557.359

I want to thank uh you

Time: 9559.92

uh and your your team uh and

Time: 9562.68

congratulate you for uh the work that

Time: 9564.6

you do and that you have created this uh

Time: 9567

window for uh us to come and share with

Time: 9569.6

the public uh some of the a little bit

Time: 9571.439

of the the work that we do uh perhaps uh

Time: 9576.279

some of that is uh is obviously is based

Time: 9578.84

on uh evidence uh some portion of that

Time: 9583

is thinking about the future uh but I do

Time: 9586

think that through maintaining the

Time: 9588.08

dialogue with the public uh that we can

Time: 9590.399

continue to understand the world that we

Time: 9592.279

live in and for that I I have to thank

Time: 9594.16

you for uh having creating this platform

Time: 9597.96

well it's a labor of love and I'm uh

Time: 9600.04

honored to uh be able to do it and um in

Time: 9603.24

no small part because I get to sit down

Time: 9605.04

and have uh beautiful intimate

Time: 9607.479

conversations about biology and life

Time: 9609.88

with you so thank you so much thank you

Time: 9613.16

thank you for joining me for today's

Time: 9614.52

discussion about sensing with the gut

Time: 9616.8

and the gut brain axis with Dr Diego B

Time: 9619.76

to learn more about Dr bz's research and

Time: 9622.279

also to see a link to his fabulous

Time: 9623.96

podcast called the gastronauts please

Time: 9626.279

see the show note captions if you're

Time: 9628.08

learning from and or enjoying this

Time: 9629.56

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Time: 9631.439

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Time: 9639.56

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Time: 9643.2

the beginning and throughout today's

Time: 9644.52

episode that's the best way to support

Time: 9646.56

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Time: 9648.319

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Time: 9650.279

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Time: 9651.8

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Time: 9653.319

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Time: 9655.2

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Time: 9657.479

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Time: 9673.279

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Time: 9693.72

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Time: 9695.399

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Time: 9697.64

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Time: 9699.359

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Time: 9701.16

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Time: 9702.76

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Time: 9704.56

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Time: 9708.6

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Time: 9716.84

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with anybody thank you once again for

Time: 9720.6

joining me for today's discussion with

Time: 9722.279

Dr Diego borquez and last but certainly

Time: 9725.04

not least thank you for your interest in

Time: 9727.2

science

Time: 9730.44

[Music]

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