David Goggins: How to Build Immense Inner Strength

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ANDREW HUBERMAN: Welcome to the Huberman Lab podcast

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where we discuss science and science-based tools

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for everyday life.

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[MUSIC PLAYING]

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I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor

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of neurobiology and ophthalmology

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at Stanford School of Medicine.

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My guest today is David Goggins.

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David Goggins is a retired Navy SEAL who

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served in Iraq and Afghanistan.

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He's also a highly accomplished ultramarathon runner.

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For those of you that don't know,

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ultramarathons are distances longer

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than 26 miles and, in David's case, often longer

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than 200 miles.

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For his achievements in athletics,

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he has been inducted into the International Sports

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Hall of Fame.

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He also held a Guinness World Record for the most pull-ups

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completed in 24 hours.

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I should mention that not only was David a decorated Navy

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SEAL, but he also graduated from Army Ranger School.

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David is also a highly successful writer,

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having authored two books, the first entitled "Can't Hurt Me"

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and the second entitled "Never Finished," both of which

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are best sellers.

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David's books cover many topics, including

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his autobiographical description of what can only

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be described as an incredibly challenging child

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and young adulthood.

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His home was abusive.

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His school environment was abusive.

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He essentially had no positive resources directed his way and.

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In his 20s, he found himself to be obese, that is,

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more than 300 pounds working a job

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he despised for minimal pay.

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And it was at that point that David began an inner dialogue

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that forced him to explore the demons born out

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of his childhood but also the position that he found himself

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in as a young man and then began the journey

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to navigate that dialogue and transform himself into the Navy

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SEAL, the ultramarathon runner, the bestselling author,

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and the extraordinarily positive and influential man

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that he is today.

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As some of you may know, David has

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done various public lectures.

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He's a familiar face online because there are so

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many clips of him on YouTube.

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And he has done podcasts before.

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However, I'm certain that you'll find today's discussion

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to be very different than previous podcasts

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that David has been featured on.

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The reason is that-- of course, we

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get into his accomplishments.

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We talk about the mindset that allowed

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him to achieve those things.

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But, today, David really lets us under the hood.

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He lets us into the form of inner dialogue

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that he has to embrace, indeed that he

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has to grapple with on a daily basis, sometimes multiple times

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throughout the day and night in order

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to impose the sort of self-discipline

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that he is so well known for.

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We also get into some of the scientific mechanisms

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underlying willpower.

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And we talk about David's current endeavors

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that include, for instance, his own exploration of science

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and medicine for which he has become an intense scholar

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and practitioner.

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I should mention that multiple times throughout today's

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discussion you will hear curse words.

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Now David and I both acknowledge that cursing

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isn't for everybody and that cursing

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itself is different than cursing at somebody.

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Nonetheless, we do realize that many people, parents

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perhaps especially, might not want to hear cursing.

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If you don't want to hear cursing,

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well, then this podcast episode is probably not for you.

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However, if you are comfortable with cursing

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or if you can tolerate it, I assure you

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today's discussion is highly worthwhile.

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Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize

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that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research

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roles at Stanford.

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It is, however, part of my desire and effort

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to bring zero cost to consumer information

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about science and science-related tools

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to the general public.

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In keeping with that theme, I'd like

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to thank the sponsors of today's podcast.

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And now for my discussion with David Goggins.

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David Goggins, welcome.

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DAVID GOGGINS: My man.

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Good to see you again, man.

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ANDREW HUBERMAN: Great to see you.

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It was late 2016, early 2017, I believe,

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when you were in my lab at Stanford.

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DAVID GOGGINS: Yes sir.

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ANDREW HUBERMAN: We did a little work later that day

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down in San Jose.

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And, gosh, see you everywhere, but it's not enough.

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So great to have you here.

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DAVID GOGGINS: Thanks for having me on, brother.

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ANDREW HUBERMAN: Yeah.

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You embody discipline and doing hard things.

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I think we should just start right off with--

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DAVID GOGGINS: Yeah.

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Let's just go there.

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ANDREW HUBERMAN: --the bold truth.

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But right before we went hot mics,

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we were talking about learning.

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Right now, you're spending some time learning and doing things

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that I think most people probably don't typically

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associate David Goggins with.

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DAVID GOGGINS: Right.

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ANDREW HUBERMAN: Why don't you tell us about that?

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DAVID GOGGINS: Well, most people just

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look at me as the guy that runs and yells as he's running.

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While I do that to motivate people,

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but people don't understand that my day is broken up

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into segments.

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I work out.

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I eat.

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I sleep, but I spend most of my time studying.

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So like I'm in the medical world.

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I'm a paramedic in Canada.

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But I spend a lot of my time trying

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to nuke every single thing about it because I'm not

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trying to just be a paramedic, learn about veins,

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and arteries, and how the heart pumps, and stuff like that.

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I'm trying to learn to the point where

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I can save someone's life.

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And even though paramedics are doing that all over the world,

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I'm trying to be that paramedic that can really

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dissect exactly what's going on and figure out what medication

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goes where, just trying to learn the algorithm of what's

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going on, man.

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So I spent a lot of time with it.

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ANDREW HUBERMAN: I love the word algorithm

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because when I teach biology or try and learn

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anything that's related to biology and especially

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the human body, I need to know the nouns.

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But it's the verbs that matter.

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And that's really what you're talking about.

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Just saying that sits there, that brain part there,

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doesn't tell you how it all works together.

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So what does your process for studying look like?

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If we dropped a camera in the room,

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brought a microphone into your inner dialogue--

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gosh, wouldn't we all love that.

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But if we dropped a microphone into your inner dialogue,

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are you waking up looking at the books and going,

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yeah, fresh day, let's learn or is some of the same resistance

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that you've talked about coming up around physical work,

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is that coming up from time to time?

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DAVID GOGGINS: You know what, I was nervous at first.

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I'm going to keep it real.

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I'm going to keep it real.

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So I'm not a real smart guy.

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And what I mean by that is I was born with ADD, ADHD.

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Like my brain cannot retain information.

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I'm not some genetic freak when it comes to running,

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when it comes to lifting weights.

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I am absolutely the bottom of the barrel.

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And people will never believe me.

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And they can just whatever.

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Believe what you want to believe.

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So when you ask me this question about what does studying look

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like for me, I have to go over the same page over, and over,

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and over, and over again, while Jennifer can look at that page

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while she's quizzing me, she'll learn it right then

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as she's-- she didn't know anything about it.

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She will quiz herself or quiz me and learn it

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as she's quizzing me.

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It's the most frustrating thing in the world

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how my brain works.

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So what I do is I literally sit there with a pen and paper.

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And I have my books.

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And I go through and have to write everything

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down every single day.

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I will study the same page until it's

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photographic memory from writing the same thing down.

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And then from there, I'll go back through and relearn it

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again.

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So I'll learn the bulk of it.

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But then I'll go through and learn the small things

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within that.

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So if it's a medication, I'll learn what the medication does.

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First, I'll learn how to even say

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the medication because these medications aren't

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like albuterol.

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No, it's very big words.

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So I'll go through, learn how to say the name.

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Then I'll go through learn what the dose is.

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Then I'll go through-- and this is like every single day.

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So it's not like, oh, I got it.

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Let's just go through-- no, nothing is I got it.

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Every single thing-- so I can't wait

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to get in this conversation because everything

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I do in life, it sucks.

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Everything I do in life, it sucks.

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That's why when I was 300 pounds and 24 years old,

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it wasn't like I had some big epiphany of let's just

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go be a Navy SEAL, and let's lose some weight.

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No, I knew my entire life was going

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to be a struggle, which is why I just ignored it.

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And I said, I'm not even trying to jump off any of this shit

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and learn how to read, how to write, how to memorize,

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how to become something I am not.

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But through that process, something happened to me.

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And I realized-- this is why I feel sorry for no one.

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In this podcast, they're going to really not like me

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because people are going to think

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that I am maybe lying or maybe fibbing or exaggerating.

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No, I am literally--

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I was the lowest form on Earth, no talent, no ability to learn.

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And I literally know what it is to be rock bottom

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and to build that up.

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So that question about learning is the pain in my ass.

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And I don't have to do it.

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Just think about it.

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I'm 49 years old, and I'm a multi-millionaire.

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I don't have to do anything.

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So all I thought about when I was growing up

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is, man, I can't wait to one day get to the point

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where I no longer have to do this stuff.

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But what happened as I got older,

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it became a way of living.

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So how I do every day is how I do every day.

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It's a discipline.

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It's a regimen.

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It was a choice I made.

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And the choice I made was what are you willing to sacrifice,

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and what are you willing to give up to find every bit of who

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you are as a human being?

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And I was willing to give up everything to do that.

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So studying is no joke.

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ANDREW HUBERMAN: I love that you're studying.

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I recall a few years ago, I heard some interview or podcast

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with you.

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And you just threw out like I don't know what I'll do next.

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Maybe I'll be a scientist.

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And I went yeah.

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Because I knew-- because I know you a bit.

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And I see your work out there, but we

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had met before, that if you decided

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that you were going to do it--

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and learning medicine, which is what you're doing,

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learning human physiology is so detailed.

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DAVID GOGGINS: Very.

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ANDREW HUBERMAN: And people out there

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have to understand when you look at a textbook

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and you see the veins and the capillaries different colors,

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when the body is open, they're not different colors.

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DAVID GOGGINS: Right, right, right.

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ANDREW HUBERMAN: So I mean, some things

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have different color contrasts, but it's not

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like it's all labeled when you pop it open.

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DAVID GOGGINS: Exactly.

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ANDREW HUBERMAN: And so the process of writing things down

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by hand is important for you.

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So you go back and read those notes.

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Do you think about that stuff on your runs

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too or are you segmenting your day

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like when you're done studying, are you heading out for a run

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and thinking about other things?

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Or are you still rehearsing the material in your head?

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DAVID GOGGINS: So when I write it down, I write it down,

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and I'm able to--

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I'm actually looking down at this table

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right now because I'm back to writing.

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So I'm actually there right now as I'm speaking to you.

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I write it down in a way that I'm memorizing page 69.

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So I'm writing it down.

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So then writing it down and that page sync together in my brain.

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So I'm looking at the book in my brain right now.

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That's just how it works for me.

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And I have to do it over and over again.

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So that page is stuck in my mind.

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So I'm literally flipping through pages

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as I'm taking these tests.

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And I'm taking these national tests to become a paramedic

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or become an advanced EMT or whatever.

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I'm literally as I'm taking that test I'm going through.

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And I'm like-- now I'm flipping pages in my head

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where that page was.

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And how I do that is just from how I write it

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and how it's on the page.

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When I run, I can't recall any of it.

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I cannot bring any of that because I'm running.

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How my mind is wired now is that everything I do is what I do.

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Because the focus it takes for me to-- right now, I'm running.

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I'm not like a great runner.

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I'm not like injury free.

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So like my first 20 minutes of the run I'm limping.

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I'm literally limping because I've

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had several knee surgeries.

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And my body was twisted.

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And so now it's untwisting.

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So people look at me, oh, looks, like he's limping when he runs.

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I am limping when I run.

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My body is jacked up so I'm focusing

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on how to get the best out of a broken body.

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So everything I do is a total focus

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on what I'm doing at that point in my life.

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ANDREW HUBERMAN: So it seems like you've really

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trained away or somehow gotten away from the ADD

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that you mentioned because what you described

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is like a deep trench.

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It's like a V shaped trench.

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I'm imagining like there's a ball bearing,

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and it's like, phewp, and it can only go forward in that trench

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or back.

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And it goes forward.

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It's not like sliding around at the concave at the bottom,

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zip-zip-zip, like a tension.

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So it's like you trained that up.

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Is there a similar feeling when you're

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in the full focus of running versus full focus of studying?

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Does it kind of feel like, oh yeah,

Time: 1053.32

that's the same groove but different thing or is it

Time: 1056.69

just completely different world?

Time: 1058.32

DAVID GOGGINS: It's a completely different world.

Time: 1061.37

Both of them for me is suffering,

Time: 1063.35

but it's suffering a whole different way.

Time: 1065.45

Like when I was going through school, I never forget--

Time: 1068.48

I think I was in third grade.

Time: 1071.36

And back then, ADD, ADHD, wasn't like here's this medicine

Time: 1077.75

or here's this thing.

Time: 1078.84

They want to put you in a special school.

Time: 1080.93

So for me, I was so far behind in learning

Time: 1084.23

that their big thing was let's just put him

Time: 1086.78

in a special school because he'll never learn.

Time: 1089.54

And through that process of like I

Time: 1092.06

don't want to be in a special school,

Time: 1094.46

I don't want to be treated any differently, it really--

Time: 1098.45

like I never took medication.

Time: 1100.28

I've never taken medication for this.

Time: 1102.202

That's why right now you see me looking right in your eyes.

Time: 1104.66

What the hell is Huberman saying right now.

Time: 1108.29

And that's why I don't feel bad for people who have ADHD,

Time: 1112.43

who have learning disabilities.

Time: 1114.26

And some are impossible because you just can't.

Time: 1118.85

But a lot of them you can.

Time: 1121.04

But people don't want to go through the process of focus,

Time: 1125.21

of teaching yourself how to truly focus.

Time: 1127.46

This is where my message gets lost.

Time: 1129.77

It gets lost because I may say MF or F because that's

Time: 1134.87

the passion that comes out of me.

Time: 1137.75

It takes everything for me to learn a sentence.

Time: 1142.24

So when I speak about David Goggins,

Time: 1144.51

I can't speak about David Goggins in a way that's

Time: 1147.03

just calm and cool.

Time: 1149.16

Because when I wake up, I know the journey

Time: 1151.23

that it takes for me to find my greatness.

Time: 1153.09

And it's hard.

Time: 1155.22

Nothing is easy.

Time: 1157.14

Nothing just like, oh, I wake up, and I just do this

Time: 1159.81

or I do that or it just-- no, I watch people every day

Time: 1163.35

go through life, and it's so easy.

Time: 1165.69

For me to be where I'm at today, it takes every bit of me.

Time: 1170.2

So when I speak about it, and as I get going here,

Time: 1173.13

you'll start seeing me-- the tempo will rise.

Time: 1175.92

The passion will come out because I'm back there.

Time: 1178.92

I'm doing what I do every day to become a human being.

Time: 1181.9

And so nothing is easy.

Time: 1184.08

Like running is running.

Time: 1185.94

It sucks.

Time: 1186.87

But you have a choice to make.

Time: 1188.74

Do you want to sit down and go back to that guy you once were?

Time: 1192.3

No.

Time: 1193.23

So this is what it takes.

Time: 1195.69

It takes that misunderstanding of people.

Time: 1198.15

And they'll never get it because they were never David Goggins.

Time: 1201.21

So that is what it takes for me to do what I do.

Time: 1203.7

It may take you something differently.

Time: 1205.6

So for me, everything has to be in the study.

Time: 1207.76

Everything has to be into this.

Time: 1208.68

Everything has to be in-- everywhere

Time: 1210.18

I am it has to be there, me, focused where I am.

Time: 1213.33

That's why you're my second podcast

Time: 1215.01

I've done since Rogan, since the book came out.

Time: 1217.36

I don't have time for that shit because if I want to be great,

Time: 1221.08

I'm not trying to maximize money or maximize people knowing me.

Time: 1225.75

I do these things because maybe someone out there will

Time: 1229.02

understand me and get it and say, I can grow from this guy,

Time: 1233.49

and others just won't.

Time: 1235.46

ANDREW HUBERMAN: Sounds like friction is something

Time: 1237.71

you're very familiar with.

Time: 1239.3

It's a word just I feel like is like cast above us

Time: 1241.85

right now in bold face, highlighted, underlined

Time: 1244.1

letters.

Time: 1244.68

DAVID GOGGINS: Friction is growth.

Time: 1245.615

ANDREW HUBERMAN: Friction, like you're up in the morning.

Time: 1248.15

And I imagine David Goggins going to the coffee maker,

Time: 1251.51

stretching out, good morning, sunshine.

Time: 1253.43

And you're telling me from eyelids open there's friction.

Time: 1257.582

DAVID GOGGINS: Yes, and that is the thing that people

Time: 1259.79

don't-- they don't fucking get.

Time: 1262.32

The biggest misunderstanding about David Goggins

Time: 1264.63

of all time--

Time: 1265.86

it's like whether you believe in God or not--

Time: 1267.93

I do-- he put this lab rat, which is me, on this planet

Time: 1274

and said let me fucking see what a beat up,

Time: 1278.14

abused kid who can barely learn, barely learn,

Time: 1283.3

who has a twisted body, messed up genetics, sickle cell, this

Time: 1288.25

and that, let me give him everything

Time: 1291.16

that pretty much disqualifies you from the military.

Time: 1293.95

But back then, it wasn't as-- and let's put him in this

Time: 1298.03

and see what comes out of it.

Time: 1299.81

So to do that, friction--

Time: 1302.26

you don't wake up in the morning time

Time: 1303.91

and go to the coffee maker.

Time: 1305.35

Matter of fact, sometimes you don't even sleep.

Time: 1307.67

What it requires is when I'm at--

Time: 1310.09

2 o'clock-- it's 2 o'clock in the morning.

Time: 1312.81

And my brain is thinking about a fucking drug.

Time: 1315.27

And I got to get up and look in my book

Time: 1317.46

to see what that drug is, how I remember it.

Time: 1320.49

And this is every day of my fucking life.

Time: 1324.37

That's why when I train a fighter or I train someone,

Time: 1326.76

I'm like, you have no fucking idea how great you really

Time: 1329.31

are because you are using such minimal,

Time: 1334.338

minimal of what you have.

Time: 1336.73

And if people can learn to focus, this is what's possible.

Time: 1341.53

While it may not be pretty-- like

Time: 1343.367

people want to do a documentary on me.

Time: 1344.95

I go no.

Time: 1346.526

I don't want to do a documentary on me

Time: 1348.98

because I will have normal everyday people picking me

Time: 1352.34

apart.

Time: 1353.51

Oh, his life is miserable.

Time: 1355.49

Who wants to live like that?

Time: 1358.16

It's crazy how he-- it's almost like he's sick.

Time: 1360.62

He's psychotic.

Time: 1364.62

The most frustrating thing in the world for me

Time: 1366.77

is when normal people judge a man like myself

Time: 1370.46

on what it really takes to extract greatness from nothing.

Time: 1377.62

It takes every bit of who you are if you choose that route.

Time: 1382.2

If you don't, Merry Christmas, do what you got to do.

Time: 1386.42

But, yeah, all these things for me--

Time: 1389.825

like I told you, man, I'm going to keep it real.

Time: 1392.18

I'm not coming here to talk about perform without purpose

Time: 1398.15

because I go through--

Time: 1399.68

when I write these books, I go through,

Time: 1402.17

I try to dumb down David Goggins.

Time: 1405.18

How can I give normal people-- and I'm normal.

Time: 1408.24

But I found something that most don't want to find.

Time: 1411

How can I speak to people and give them

Time: 1413.19

something from this crazy psychotic brain that I've

Time: 1416.59

developed?

Time: 1417.09

How can I give them that?

Time: 1418.27

So I sit down with Jennifer for years

Time: 1421.17

and write down perform without purpose,

Time: 1424.32

callus your mind, armor your mind, the cookie jar,

Time: 1428.94

the accountability mirror, shit that people can fucking use

Time: 1432.15

in their lives.

Time: 1433.11

No, no, I'm glad it helps you.

Time: 1437.23

But the barbaric life that I live that you have to live,

Time: 1442.78

the almost obsession that you must have to be great,

Time: 1446.11

you can't put that shit in a fucking book, bro.

Time: 1448.9

You can't put in a book.

Time: 1450.085

You can't.

Time: 1451.31

You can't write about it.

Time: 1452.92

ANDREW HUBERMAN: It has to be experienced.

Time: 1453.85

DAVID GOGGINS: It has to be experienced.

Time: 1455.517

And you can't even--

Time: 1456.64

after you experience it, to write it in the book,

Time: 1461.07

it would seem like he needs to be locked up.

Time: 1464.157

ANDREW HUBERMAN: Too gory.

Time: 1465.24

DAVID GOGGINS: It's too gory.

Time: 1466.08

Doesn't make sense for a guy that everything,

Time: 1468.15

every second of the day he is trying

Time: 1471.84

to extract more from something.

Time: 1474.89

He's constantly thinking.

Time: 1476.45

He's constantly, constantly disciplined,

Time: 1478.46

never going off the path.

Time: 1480.05

Whatever is injured on him, he figures away.

Time: 1483.41

It's a conquerors mindset.

Time: 1486.74

And very few people, if any, can really understand what that is.

Time: 1492.61

Like I'm almost 50.

Time: 1495.92

And I've been this way for almost 30 years.

Time: 1498.83

Like what do you do for fun?

Time: 1502.52

These questions, I don't get them.

Time: 1504.46

I don't understand them.

Time: 1505.46

I don't-- so yeah.

Time: 1506.447

ANDREW HUBERMAN: I get asked that sometimes,

Time: 1508.28

what do you do for fun.

Time: 1508.86

I start listing off all this stuff like podcasting, reading,

Time: 1511.7

working out.

Time: 1513.65

So some of that resonates.

Time: 1515.06

But I think what's so truly unusual about what

Time: 1519.39

you're describing, your process is that from go it's hard.

Time: 1525.66

And I have to ask was being 300 pounds, having essentially--

Time: 1529.953

I'm using the words you've described.

Time: 1531.495

DAVID GOGGINS: No, do it.

Time: 1532.11

ANDREW HUBERMAN: You've said it before.

Time: 1533.735

You had a tendency at one point in your life early

Time: 1535.89

on tell lies, try and get people's approval.

Time: 1538.485

DAVID GOGGINS: Lied my ass off.

Time: 1540.12

ANDREW HUBERMAN: Crazy haircuts, attention seeking,

Time: 1543.42

and yet all of that triggered something

Time: 1547.98

that now is extraordinary.

Time: 1552.89

Do you think those hardships were

Time: 1556.01

necessary to flip the switch?

Time: 1558.445

DAVID GOGGINS: I don't know if they were necessary,

Time: 1560.57

but it was something that made me feel--

Time: 1564.26

I didn't feel good.

Time: 1566.38

It was easy.

Time: 1568.88

The brain that I was given as a child,

Time: 1572.31

it was easy to go home and think about,

Time: 1574.59

how do I want to be a freak today?

Time: 1577.15

How do I want to show up to school today and be a freak?

Time: 1579.73

It didn't require me going home and opening a book up saying,

Time: 1583.6

it's going to take me all year to learn this fucking page.

Time: 1586.51

So instead of learning that page,

Time: 1589.28

I learned how to become a character.

Time: 1593.3

And maybe that character that I created,

Time: 1596.84

that 300 pound, insecure guy that

Time: 1599.93

used to fake it till I make it type of guy,

Time: 1603.335

let me become your friend, let me lie to you

Time: 1605.81

until you like me type of guy--

Time: 1608.91

when you have any manhood, womanhood, a human being,

Time: 1615.38

a soul, a spirit, any--

Time: 1618.545

I must have just this much pride because that's exactly

Time: 1622.37

what opened the door for me.

Time: 1623.72

Because every day, you were a character.

Time: 1625.43

Every day, you were a clown.

Time: 1626.597

Every day, you opened that Spanish book or that science

Time: 1631.4

book or English book, and you looked at it.

Time: 1633.71

It looked like a foreign language.

Time: 1637.025

And you're saying, where do I start?

Time: 1640.2

Where do I start?

Time: 1641.82

And, obviously, it was necessary.

Time: 1644.258

The more I talk about it, it was necessary because what

Time: 1646.55

happened is I became haunted by the mere fact

Time: 1651.14

that this is my existence.

Time: 1653.54

And you got to live with that.

Time: 1655.895

And I lived with it for a lot of years.

Time: 1658.05

And so I sat back and said, OK, all right,

Time: 1661.37

I know what this takes.

Time: 1662.6

And when you sit back, as fucked up as I was--

Time: 1666.78

and I had a laundry list, a table

Time: 1670.65

like this of what I have to do to become

Time: 1673.17

just a human being that can make ends meet,

Time: 1677.28

that can make $1,000 a month.

Time: 1679.08

Just to get there was like, oh my god, dude, like how--

Time: 1683.85

I'm 16, 17, I can't read.

Time: 1686.44

I can't write.

Time: 1689.58

Oh my god, I'm so behind the power curve.

Time: 1691.53

And my brain is about being depressed.

Time: 1693.81

And my dad beat-- my mom's not home.

Time: 1695.49

And kids are calling me nigger at school.

Time: 1697.83

And I'm like, oh my god, man, what the fuck do I do?

Time: 1701.95

And it wasn't like someone came around and said,

Time: 1703.95

hey, man, you can do this.

Time: 1706.89

This is all me.

Time: 1708.81

Some people want to know where does this cold man come from.

Time: 1712.17

I'm not trying to be cold.

Time: 1714.69

It's the reality of my life.

Time: 1716.52

It's the reality of a lot of people's lives.

Time: 1719.26

And so, yeah, that had to happen for me to be haunted,

Time: 1723.93

to be haunted, to pull out, to extract

Time: 1726.33

the guy that I am today.

Time: 1727.68

That haunting is something that's still there today

Time: 1731.46

because no matter how much you improve,

Time: 1733.5

no matter how much you change who you are,

Time: 1737.18

it's not permanent.

Time: 1739.26

You don't just wake up and say, oh my god, man,

Time: 1743.135

you're David Goggins.

Time: 1744.41

You break records.

Time: 1745.32

You do this.

Time: 1745.82

You do that.

Time: 1746.4

People want to know, how are you able to just be so hard?

Time: 1752

Because I never turn the fucking thing off.

Time: 1754.32

Because once it turns off, I go right back

Time: 1757.81

to the David Goggins that is.

Time: 1759.94

And that's the guy that I'm constantly fighting every day.

Time: 1763.15

And it's a choice.

Time: 1764.9

And that choice makes you misunderstood.

Time: 1767.2

It makes you crazy.

Time: 1768.34

That's why I hate fucking social media.

Time: 1771.28

In 2013, people wanted me to write my book.

Time: 1775.46

I did it in 2018.

Time: 1777.23

Took five years.

Time: 1779.01

And the reason why I didn't do it--

Time: 1780.75

I sat at the table, and Jennifer was there.

Time: 1782.78

This was before she started working for me,

Time: 1785.3

I started dating her or whatever.

Time: 1787.05

And all these people were there.

Time: 1788.84

And they're like, man, you got to go on social media.

Time: 1791.6

And I was like, fuck you, man.

Time: 1794.63

It's poison.

Time: 1796.07

It's poison because I knew what I did to get where I am.

Time: 1800.27

And I'm going to have these people,

Time: 1801.86

these normal, everyday people, fat, lazy,

Time: 1806.87

exactly who I was judging me.

Time: 1811.02

Because I know it because I was once them.

Time: 1813.63

All my hard work, all my dedication,

Time: 1815.61

I'm going to have some normal dude get

Time: 1817.83

his little brownie, his little Ding Dong, Ho Ho, Twinkie,

Time: 1820.95

sit there with his coffee picking me apart.

Time: 1824.76

Oh, he must be unhappy.

Time: 1827.07

Do you know how hard it is to put these shoes

Time: 1829.98

on every damn morning?

Time: 1830.94

And I'm gonna have you pick me apart?

Time: 1833.67

So, yeah, there's so much that goes into this

Time: 1839.97

that I was like fuck this.

Time: 1842.34

I never wanted anything to do with it.

Time: 1844.92

So anyway.

Time: 1848.62

ANDREW HUBERMAN: I'm not a psychologist.

Time: 1850.29

But knowing your story from what you've written,

Time: 1853.18

what you've said on social media,

Time: 1854.85

and elsewhere, podcasts and here now especially, it's

Time: 1858.45

amazing to me, and, frankly, it pulls

Time: 1860.975

at my heartstrings a little bit I

Time: 1862.35

realize that's not what you're trying to do

Time: 1864.142

but that in the course of your childhood and in your young

Time: 1867.48

adulthood that no one ever got between you and the world.

Time: 1871.35

I forget where I heard it that if a kid has just one

Time: 1874.38

person that believes in them--

Time: 1876.06

and I had my trials and tribulations.

Time: 1877.83

But I had great coaches, great mentors.

Time: 1880.26

I attached to them.

Time: 1881.44

I found them if they didn't necessarily find me.

Time: 1883.8

But I'm realizing that your situation was no one's ever

Time: 1888.36

said, hey, I'm going to stand here next to you

Time: 1890.34

or get in front of you, put a shield up.

Time: 1893.88

And so it's almost like you've got these different--

Time: 1899.37

it's all you, but there's versions of yourself--

Time: 1901.83

that like you knew social media-- like I don't know

Time: 1904.5

that I have the wherewithal in 2013 '14, '15, '16,

Time: 1907.61

'17 to get in front of myself while doing

Time: 1910.57

all this because I've already got so much going on in here.

Time: 1913.03

Is that about right?

Time: 1913.952

DAVID GOGGINS: That is right.

Time: 1915.16

But I had developed a lot of anger.

Time: 1917.51

And I still have it.

Time: 1918.64

And it will never go away for the normal human beings

Time: 1922.66

of this world because when you put yourself in the sewer

Time: 1926.55

like I was in-- and please, if someone saved me,

Time: 1929.88

come out and announce it to the world.

Time: 1932.97

There was no one.

Time: 1934.82

There's no one.

Time: 1936.05

So when you know that--

Time: 1938.09

and then I'm sitting at the table

Time: 1940.07

with all these smart people who are telling

Time: 1941.96

me what to do and shit and guiding me through my life

Time: 1944.3

now when I'm 40 fucking years old.

Time: 1947.42

It's 2000-- I don't know 40-something years old.

Time: 1950.16

Now I'm 49.

Time: 1951.38

And I'm looking at them all.

Time: 1952.72

And they're now trying to guide me

Time: 1954.59

on what's right on this poison.

Time: 1959.13

And so, yeah, what you say is right.

Time: 1961.64

But for me, it was more of I know now.

Time: 1966.4

I don't need you to guide my future.

Time: 1970.15

I know what's good for me and what's bad for me.

Time: 1973.48

And for me, it took every bit of focus I could.

Time: 1976.55

And I know social media--

Time: 1977.89

that's why people love to go on there because they want to show

Time: 1981.16

you the good side of life.

Time: 1985.26

I'm not teaching good side of life.

Time: 1987.905

So I had to figure out a way when

Time: 1989.28

I came on 2016 of teaching you what life really is

Time: 1994.86

for the majority of us is hell.

Time: 1997.52

And so while people love to show you the cars, and the house,

Time: 2002.47

and the vacations and shit, all that's good.

Time: 2005.26

All that's happy.

Time: 2007.15

I'm going to show you the side that I know most of you

Time: 2010.09

are going through.

Time: 2011.32

And people hide very well.

Time: 2013.93

I don't want to hide anymore.

Time: 2015.61

I hid it for 24 fucking years.

Time: 2018.135

So that's why now when I told you

Time: 2019.51

we can talk about whatever you want

Time: 2021.49

because as human beings, the first thing we have to learn--

Time: 2026.33

I also stuttered real bad growing up.

Time: 2027.895

So if you hear me stutter every now and then,

Time: 2029.77

it's because that was part of my life also.

Time: 2033.76

So it's funny.

Time: 2035.71

Human beings want to show you the best side.

Time: 2037.66

And they want to hide the worst side.

Time: 2039.7

For me, I'm going to teach you how

Time: 2041.8

to be vulnerable because that's the only way you fix yourself.

Time: 2045.65

You don't fix yourself by coming out here

Time: 2047.72

and me selling you some fucking books.

Time: 2049.83

That's why I don't have them.

Time: 2051.23

I forgot them.

Time: 2053.06

I'm glad people got something from the book.

Time: 2056.48

I want you to learn that the only way you grow

Time: 2061.3

is how to look at yourself and say, OK,

Time: 2064.15

like I did, table longer than this, what the fuck I have

Time: 2068.15

to do to get somewhere?

Time: 2070.19

There was nothing good on there, nothing.

Time: 2072.985

Yeah, I loved playing basketball.

Time: 2074.36

I left that out.

Time: 2075.5

That's something I love to do.

Time: 2077.34

I don't care about that.

Time: 2078.409

That didn't make the fucking list

Time: 2080.449

because the list that I had to live by

Time: 2082.67

was the very list that was going to get me at this table

Time: 2085.46

with you to talk to you to the normal human beings, which

Time: 2090.63

I once was, about how you can get somewhere and how it looks.

Time: 2095.699

It looks very ugly.

Time: 2098.53

There's no fucking passion.

Time: 2100.45

There's no fucking motivation.

Time: 2102.25

There's no, oh my god, man, I fucking--

Time: 2105.01

no, it's every day of your life just doing,

Time: 2111.11

no passion, no discipline, no motivation, all these words.

Time: 2115.58

I hate that so many people fucking use these words now

Time: 2117.83

because it's watered.

Time: 2120.26

Someone sitting in the room by themselves

Time: 2122.39

and they figure themselves out and say, god, this

Time: 2124.49

is going to fucking suck.

Time: 2127.54

Where's passion when you're 300 pounds?

Time: 2131.29

Where's the motivation when you can't read and write?

Time: 2133.72

Where is it?

Time: 2134.86

So how did this happen?

Time: 2136.85

I just fucking did.

Time: 2138.7

I just did.

Time: 2140.123

I said maybe at the end of this journey,

Time: 2141.79

there will be something there for me.

Time: 2143.332

If not, I can read.

Time: 2146.14

If not, I'm 185 fucking pounds.

Time: 2150.15

There was no magic potion.

Time: 2152.02

There was no, oh, let me wake up and look at some shit.

Time: 2155.41

No.

Time: 2156.13

All those words are overused.

Time: 2158.35

They're bullshit.

Time: 2159.85

It's all bullshit.

Time: 2161.29

Just do.

Time: 2162.55

You're living.

Time: 2163.97

How do you want to live?

Time: 2165.22

How do you want to die?

Time: 2166.63

How do you want to fucking be remembered?

Time: 2169.81

That's it.

Time: 2171.04

That's it.

Time: 2172.42

Period.

Time: 2173.718

ANDREW HUBERMAN: As many of you know,

Time: 2175.26

I've been taking AG1 daily since 2012.

Time: 2177.792

So I'm delighted that they're sponsoring the podcast.

Time: 2180

AG1 is a vitamin mineral probiotic drink

Time: 2182.653

that's designed to meet all of your foundational nutrition

Time: 2185.07

needs.

Time: 2185.57

Now, of course, I try to get enough servings of vitamins

Time: 2188.01

and minerals through whole foods sources that include vegetables

Time: 2190.71

and fruits every day.

Time: 2191.88

But, oftentimes, I simply can't get enough servings.

Time: 2194.55

But with AG1, I'm sure to get enough vitamins, and minerals,

Time: 2197.8

and the probiotics that I need.

Time: 2199.48

And it also contains adaptogens to help buffer stress.

Time: 2202.47

Simply put, I always feel better when I take AG1.

Time: 2205.38

I have more focus and energy, and I sleep better.

Time: 2207.96

And it also happens to taste great.

Time: 2210.12

For all these reasons, whenever I'm

Time: 2211.65

asked if you could take just one supplement what would it be,

Time: 2214.68

I answer AG1.

Time: 2216.33

If you'd like to try AG1, go to drinkag1.com/huberman to claim

Time: 2221.37

a special offer.

Time: 2222.49

They'll give you five free travel

Time: 2224.07

packs plus a year's supply of vitamin D3, K2.

Time: 2227.04

Again, that's drinkag1.com/huberman.

Time: 2230.91

The word haunted is ringing in my head.

Time: 2233.91

DAVID GOGGINS: Yep.

Time: 2235.845

ANDREW HUBERMAN: I think it's such a powerful word.

Time: 2237.97

DAVID GOGGINS: Yep.

Time: 2238.78

ANDREW HUBERMAN: Because I was about to m

Time: 2241.03

it seems like a huge part of your process, maybe

Time: 2244

the entire process, is it's all stick no carrot,

Time: 2247.54

you talk about the carrot, the positive thing.

Time: 2249.8

And then there's the stick, the thing you're trying to avoid.

Time: 2252.4

I feel like it's-- the way it's landing for me is it's all

Time: 2258.1

stick and gas pedal.

Time: 2259.068

DAVID GOGGINS: That's it.

Time: 2260.11

ANDREW HUBERMAN: There's no carrot.

Time: 2261.79

You're not imagining, oh, when I'm a paramedic, when

Time: 2264.43

the book is published.

Time: 2265.6

And, obviously, you set those goals,

Time: 2267.1

and you make those targets.

Time: 2268.48

But it's all stick.

Time: 2269.988

DAVID GOGGINS: All stick.

Time: 2271.03

ANDREW HUBERMAN: No carrot.

Time: 2272.155

DAVID GOGGINS: Think about that.

Time: 2274.26

I'm waking up right now studying.

Time: 2276.72

Like I have a test tomorrow.

Time: 2279.12

I already passed the fucking test.

Time: 2281.73

Think about that.

Time: 2283.41

Every day in my life, that's what I must do just

Time: 2286.37

to retain what I learned.

Time: 2289.01

Four hours plus a day, I go through and do that.

Time: 2293.43

There's no stick.

Time: 2294.48

Or there's only a stick.

Time: 2296.2

There's never been a carrot, which

Time: 2298.32

is why when I speak to people, I have to figure out

Time: 2305.19

a way to resonate with them.

Time: 2307.95

Because all I want to say to them

Time: 2310.02

is let me teach you the real life, how it really is.

Time: 2315.512

The reason why you're a loser and the reason why you're not

Time: 2317.97

fucking making it and the reason why you're

Time: 2320.22

trying to go to all these--

Time: 2321.37

I go to all these fucking conventions,

Time: 2322.953

speak all the fucking time.

Time: 2324.808

I look in the fucking audience.

Time: 2326.1

And these people sign up, sign up,

Time: 2328.95

sign up fucking every year go to a convention,

Time: 2330.95

thinking they're going to learn something fucking different.

Time: 2333.45

No, you're lazy.

Time: 2335.7

You know exactly what to do, exactly what to do.

Time: 2338.85

Because even me in my state of I can't read and write,

Time: 2343.05

I knew exactly what to do.

Time: 2346.08

It just sucks doing it.

Time: 2348.26

It sucks to do it.

Time: 2350.51

It sucks to wake up every morning of your life

Time: 2353

and say, god, man, I'm not smart.

Time: 2356.58

So guess what I got to do.

Time: 2358.31

I got to study the same shit that I got one of the highest

Time: 2361.61

scores in the nation on and do it again, and do it again,

Time: 2366.48

and do it again.

Time: 2367.18

It's not just there.

Time: 2368.66

It's not just there permanently for me.

Time: 2370.93

So, yeah, it's all stick.

Time: 2373.15

It's all stick.

Time: 2375.98

The only carrot you have is like maybe, maybe.

Time: 2382.5

Because whenever I take these tests that are real hard,

Time: 2385.77

the back of my brain is like a good chance

Time: 2388.22

you're not going to make it, Goggins.

Time: 2390.23

This ain't you, bro.

Time: 2392.98

This ain't you.

Time: 2393.73

You weren't born like this.

Time: 2395.75

This ain't you.

Time: 2396.68

The real you, bro--

Time: 2398.23

study all you want to.

Time: 2399.16

But the second that fucking computer

Time: 2400.72

comes on with 150 questions, this ain't you, man.

Time: 2405.56

And somehow, comes back.

Time: 2407.36

I passed.

Time: 2408.55

I passed again, passed again.

Time: 2411.01

But that real me back here every fucking time

Time: 2414.13

is saying that ain't you, bro.

Time: 2417.925

That ain't you.

Time: 2419.17

And I have to outwork that voice.

Time: 2422.95

When I'm taking that test and I get

Time: 2424.6

to a question I don't fucking know the answer,

Time: 2426.73

I'm like fuck, man.

Time: 2427.81

And then say, see I told you, man.

Time: 2430.916

That ain't you.

Time: 2433.03

You're 300 pounds, man.

Time: 2434.17

You sit at home.

Time: 2434.837

You figure out how to do your hair.

Time: 2436.87

That's what you do, how to come to school

Time: 2438.94

with the reverse baldness when you're 16.

Time: 2442.756

That's you.

Time: 2444.4

So there is no get out of jail free card.

Time: 2449.48

This is why I say stay hard.

Time: 2451.52

Because when you weren't given the gifts,

Time: 2454.07

the only thing you can do in life is stay hard.

Time: 2458.18

And I know people cannot stand me.

Time: 2461.09

They can't stand this talk.

Time: 2464.5

This is all you can do.

Time: 2467.53

There's no magic pill or a magic potion.

Time: 2470.92

All you can do is outwork the man

Time: 2474.37

that God created or woman in you.

Time: 2477.37

And what that looks like is unfun.

Time: 2480.94

That's why I said, do not do a documentary on me

Time: 2484.92

because people will not see the truth.

Time: 2487.65

They will see what they want to see is

Time: 2489.51

I don't want to live like that.

Time: 2491.68

Good, good.

Time: 2493.62

And you will live exactly the way

Time: 2495.33

you live now, questioning who you are,

Time: 2498.06

wondering what is possible, wondering

Time: 2500.67

what you are capable of doing.

Time: 2502.62

That's how that looks or you can be me, which am I happy?

Time: 2508.09

I don't know.

Time: 2508.635

Never really thought about it.

Time: 2510.002

Don't really care about it because all I really

Time: 2511.96

cared about was when I looked in that fucking mirror,

Time: 2514.168

I saw a piece of shit.

Time: 2515.65

Happiness wasn't on the mirror at 16 or when I was 300 pounds.

Time: 2519.78

It wasn't like, I'm looking for happiness.

Time: 2522.31

No, I'm looking at myself in the mirror and say, all right,

Time: 2525.34

motherfucker, you did it again today.

Time: 2528.15

You're a bad boy because that shit sucks.

Time: 2531.92

I have about a couple of minutes of that that I got the carrot.

Time: 2536.182

The second I lay down and go to bed, the carrots gone

Time: 2538.39

because I'm waking up all through the night to check

Time: 2541.52

the work I did that day.

Time: 2544.43

Did I get this drug right?

Time: 2545.835

Did I get this right?

Time: 2546.71

Did I get that right?

Time: 2548.62

What did I do?

Time: 2549.4

Oh my god, fuck, I'm already losing it.

Time: 2553.55

Stick.

Time: 2555.42

ANDREW HUBERMAN: That stick's haunting you.

Time: 2557.76

DAVID GOGGINS: Haunting me.

Time: 2558.09

ANDREW HUBERMAN: It's following you around.

Time: 2559.882

So no picture of Jordan on the wall.

Time: 2561.63

You're not listening to YouTube inspiration video.

Time: 2563.91

DAVID GOGGINS: No.

Time: 2564.66

ANDREW HUBERMAN: Those would be all your voice anyway.

Time: 2566.91

[LAUGHTER]

Time: 2567.54

You're not listening to your top 10 favorite songs

Time: 2570.78

just to get rolling and then lace the shoes, hit the books.

Time: 2574.305

It's all in here.

Time: 2575.203

DAVID GOGGINS: All in there.

Time: 2576.37

I used to do that when I was fat.

Time: 2578.13

Rocky, I mean, that was my thing.

Time: 2581.55

Round 14 was my thing.

Time: 2583.18

And as I got older and older and older, that started to go away.

Time: 2589.72

And I started to create--

Time: 2593.57

I had all these people that I used to watch.

Time: 2595.63

Rocky was one, Barnes, Elias from "Platoon,"

Time: 2601.36

Jack from "A Few Good Men" when he's on the stand going crazy.

Time: 2605.68

I saw a lot of these characters that I looked at

Time: 2608.5

and I was like, man, I ain't got none of that.

Time: 2611.21

But they were characters.

Time: 2613.73

After a while, I lived a life so disciplined

Time: 2618.51

that every body that I once looked

Time: 2620.85

to, these fake characters, I built that as a man.

Time: 2626.26

And when I was younger, I had this image in my mind

Time: 2630.07

of what does a man look like to me?

Time: 2632.9

And I got all these people who are badasses, characters.

Time: 2638.12

And in my mind, I became that.

Time: 2641.82

And that's what kept me going a lot was

Time: 2644.58

I had this pipe dream of becoming a little bit of this

Time: 2647.01

and a little bit of that because when

Time: 2648.552

you have no parents raising you and you

Time: 2651.39

have no role models growing up, it's not daydreaming.

Time: 2656.97

You start to create a reality like, mm, maybe I can be that.

Time: 2665.92

And after becoming this guy, that

Time: 2671.28

is the biggest thing I can ever do in my life is

Time: 2673.28

I became that guy.

Time: 2675.17

That I once looked at all these, guys and now

Time: 2677.13

I look at myself like, god, who the fuck can do that?

Time: 2679.94

I can.

Time: 2681.41

But what it takes is a discipline

Time: 2683.75

that no one can ever even--

Time: 2688.1

they don't understand it.

Time: 2689.398

They don't understand it.

Time: 2690.44

But everybody has the ability to do it,

Time: 2692.77

but they just don't want to.

Time: 2693.99

They want to keep asking questions

Time: 2695.43

and keep going to seminars.

Time: 2697.54

And the greatness is right in you.

Time: 2699.73

And that's why once again--

Time: 2700.99

I say this a million times here, I do not feel sorry for you.

Time: 2704.81

I will not sugarcoat what I'm going

Time: 2707.35

to say to you because all of you know

Time: 2709.87

what I'm saying is the truth.

Time: 2712.46

Everybody knows it's the truth.

Time: 2714.525

This is what it looks like.

Time: 2715.65

And you know it too.

Time: 2716.66

You know it too.

Time: 2718.043

If you ain't got nothing, I hate to tell you what it looks like.

Time: 2720.71

It's ugly.

Time: 2721.71

It's not a documentary.

Time: 2722.97

It's not an HBO special.

Time: 2724.31

You ain't going to watch me like, hey, man,

Time: 2725.42

you guys gotta watch this.

Time: 2726.29

No, it's like, oh, god, this looks like a train wreck.

Time: 2728.7

It's like a nightmare.

Time: 2729.2

This looks like this guy's got-- no, that's what it looks like.

Time: 2732.05

Hard work looks horrible.

Time: 2734.42

It's not motivating.

Time: 2736.04

It's not motivating at all.

Time: 2737.738

It ain't like Rocky round 14 where he gets knocked down

Time: 2740.03

and goes like this to Apollo Creed.

Time: 2742.13

Looks like a man being stuck in a fucking dungeon.

Time: 2745.94

And there's no fucking way out.

Time: 2748.55

But you have the fucking key.

Time: 2752.65

But you refuse to use it.

Time: 2755.19

And that's nothing motivating about that.

Time: 2757.52

So, yes, no documentary on David Goggins.

Time: 2760.587

ANDREW HUBERMAN: The real life--

Time: 2761.92

DAVID GOGGINS: The real life.

Time: 2762.19

ANDREW HUBERMAN: --David Goggins is the documentary.

Time: 2764.965

It's already being written.

Time: 2767.28

You're it.

Time: 2768.21

DAVID GOGGINS: Right.

Time: 2768.57

ANDREW HUBERMAN: Yeah, I'm going to share a little neuroscience

Time: 2770.82

tidbit.

Time: 2771.45

DAVID GOGGINS: Love it.

Time: 2771.69

ANDREW HUBERMAN: But I think it's one

Time: 2773.232

that you'll appreciate.

Time: 2774.63

Most people don't know this, but there's

Time: 2776.97

a brain structure called the anterior mid-cingulate cortex.

Time: 2780.81

As we pointed out before, that's a noun.

Time: 2782.59

It's a name.

Time: 2782.94

It doesn't mean anything.

Time: 2783.982

We could call it the Cookie Monster.

Time: 2786.955

But what's interesting about this brain

Time: 2788.58

area is there are now a lot of data

Time: 2791.19

in humans, not some mouse study, showing that when people do

Time: 2796.57

something they don't want to do like add three

Time: 2799.75

hours of exercise per day or per week

Time: 2803.29

or when people who are trying to diet and lose weight

Time: 2806.05

resist eating something, when people do anything

Time: 2809.82

that they, and this is the important part,

Time: 2811.57

that they don't want to do, it's not about adding more work.

Time: 2814.81

It's about adding more work that you don't want to do.

Time: 2818.2

This brain area gets bigger.

Time: 2820.055

Now here's what's especially interesting about this brain

Time: 2822.43

area to me.

Time: 2823.037

And by the way, I'm only learning this

Time: 2824.62

recently because it's new data.

Time: 2827.08

But there's a lot of it.

Time: 2828.7

The anterior mid-cingulate cortex

Time: 2831.72

is smaller in obese people.

Time: 2834.85

It gets bigger when they diet.

Time: 2837.43

It's larger in athletes.

Time: 2840.61

It's especially large or grows larger

Time: 2843.91

in people that see themselves as challenged

Time: 2847.36

and overcome some challenge.

Time: 2850.63

And in people that live a very long time,

Time: 2855.11

this area keeps its size.

Time: 2858.62

In many ways, scientists are starting

Time: 2860.75

to think of the anterior mid-cingulate cortex not just

Time: 2863.54

as one of the seats of willpower but perhaps actually

Time: 2868.43

the seat of the will to live.

Time: 2870.507

DAVID GOGGINS: See, now we're talking.

Time: 2872.09

ANDREW HUBERMAN: And when I learned

Time: 2872.87

about the anterior mid-cingulate cortex,

Time: 2874.61

I was like almost out of my seat.

Time: 2875.997

And I've been in the neuroscience game

Time: 2877.58

since I was 20.

Time: 2878.585

DAVID GOGGINS: Now we're talking.

Time: 2879.14

ANDREW HUBERMAN: We're the same age.

Time: 2879.86

And I was so pumped because I've heard of the amygdala, fear,

Time: 2882.44

prefrontal cortex.

Time: 2883.49

It's planning an action.

Time: 2884.87

I could tell you every brain area and every--

Time: 2886.852

I teach neuroanatomy to medical students.

Time: 2888.56

But when I started seeing the data

Time: 2891.11

on the anterior mid-cingulate cortex, I was like, whoa,

Time: 2896.16

this is interesting.

Time: 2898.11

And all the data point to the fact

Time: 2900.36

that we can build this area up.

Time: 2902.94

But that as quickly as we build it up,

Time: 2905.46

if we don't continue to invest in things that are hard for us,

Time: 2909.06

that we don't want to do-- that's the part that

Time: 2911.91

feels so Goggin-esque to me, that we don't want to do.

Time: 2915.942

Like if you love the ice bath-- yeah, I love the ice bath--

Time: 2918.4

and you go from 1 minute to 10 minutes,

Time: 2920.22

guess what, your anterior mid-cingulate cortex did not

Time: 2922.705

grow.

Time: 2923.205

DAVID GOGGINS: None.

Time: 2924.038

ANDREW HUBERMAN: But if you hate the cold water,

Time: 2926.34

if you're afraid of drowning and you get into water

Time: 2929.58

and put your head under and survive,

Time: 2934.29

then the anterior mid-cingulate cortex gets bigger.

Time: 2936.82

But if you don't do it the next day or if you do it the next

Time: 2939.78

day and you enjoy it because, hey, hey, I did it yesterday,

Time: 2942.48

woo-hoo, happy me, Merry Christmas as you would say--

Time: 2944.695

DAVID GOGGINS: Right.

Time: 2945.57

Merry Christmas.

Time: 2946.14

ANDREW HUBERMAN: --guess what, the anterior

Time: 2947.932

mid-cingulate cortex shrinks again.

Time: 2950.37

To me, this is one of the most important discoveries

Time: 2952.86

that neuroscience has ever made because it's

Time: 2956.39

that I don't want to do something but do it anyway

Time: 2959.93

that grows this area.

Time: 2961.563

And it's almost like--

Time: 2962.48

I have a friend.

Time: 2963.147

He's been sober 30 years from alcohol.

Time: 2965.36

And he always says, the amazing thing about addiction

Time: 2967.79

is there's a cure.

Time: 2969.86

The problem is it only works one day at a time.

Time: 2972.87

And so you have to renew it every day.

Time: 2974.8

DAVID GOGGINS: That's right.

Time: 2975.05

ANDREW HUBERMAN: So the anterior mid-cingulate cortex to me--

Time: 2977.75

when I learned about it, two things went off in my head.

Time: 2980.3

Whoa, this is super interesting.

Time: 2981.738

And, two, I got to tell David Goggins about this.

Time: 2983.78

And I waited until now--

Time: 2985.1

DAVID GOGGINS: I'm glad.

Time: 2986.1

ANDREW HUBERMAN: --to tell you because I felt like, well,

Time: 2988.503

for obvious reasons I wanted to tell you

Time: 2990.17

and I wanted to tell you here.

Time: 2991.42

DAVID GOGGINS: Well, I love that because that's

Time: 2994.4

how I've lived my entire life.

Time: 2995.7

I don't know anything about that.

Time: 2997.2

But people go, man, you have such a strong will.

Time: 3001.59

It's something that you build.

Time: 3003.24

Like I never forget I was on a podcast one time.

Time: 3005.59

And this dude goes you were blessed with a strong mind.

Time: 3010.93

Like the hell are you talking about I

Time: 3015.085

was blessed with a strong mind?

Time: 3017.44

That's something that you have to develop.

Time: 3020.39

You develop that over years, decades of suffering

Time: 3025.89

and going back into the suffer.

Time: 3028.26

That's why a lot of people who graduate Navy SEAL training,

Time: 3031.77

they want to know--

Time: 3035.99

I talk about it very openly all the time.

Time: 3039.25

A lot of guys don't want to go back into that water,

Time: 3042.88

don't want to go back into the hard stuff.

Time: 3044.79

And maybe not-- anything hard, anything hard

Time: 3047.73

in life, once you get through it, it's like you become a POW.

Time: 3052.65

Like how many POWs you know want to go back to POW camp?

Time: 3055.5

None.

Time: 3056.91

When something sucks so bad in life--

Time: 3059.22

this is on this that we're talking about now--

Time: 3063.13

very few people want to go back.

Time: 3065.83

They're happy they graduated.

Time: 3069.84

I realized I'm the same way.

Time: 3072.19

I don't want to go back.

Time: 3074.78

I have to go back.

Time: 3076.86

I must go back because that is exactly where all the knowledge

Time: 3081.56

of my life exists was back there in what you're exactly

Time: 3085.197

what you're talking about.

Time: 3086.28

Well, I didn't know anything about this.

Time: 3088.25

But how I grew a will was constantly doing these things

Time: 3093.14

to now it's just life.

Time: 3097.35

I wake up.

Time: 3097.94

While it still sucks, it's just life.

Time: 3100.28

You don't sit back and like, oh my god.

Time: 3102.2

Like I have days I don't want to do.

Time: 3104.01

But I know I'm going to do it.

Time: 3106.38

I know from years of just doing it.

Time: 3109.12

So that's beautiful.

Time: 3111.293

And this is why I came on here with you today.

Time: 3113.21

And I'm glad that you're talking about this because human beings

Time: 3116.84

need to hear this.

Time: 3118.44

They need to stop hearing these hacks on this and that.

Time: 3123.69

There's no fucking hack, bro.

Time: 3125.4

There's no fucking hack.

Time: 3126.82

Yeah, you may this and that and saunas and all this shit

Time: 3131.19

that they-- yeah, it's great.

Time: 3133.68

There is no fucking life hack.

Time: 3136.35

To grow that thing-- how do you grow it?

Time: 3139.05

Do it, and do it, and do it, and do it.

Time: 3143.34

That's the hack.

Time: 3144.6

The hack is going to fucking suck.

Time: 3146.58

And that's what I realized.

Time: 3148.29

That's what I realized.

Time: 3149.85

That's why I wanted to come on here today.

Time: 3151.6

I didn't want to come on here and talk

Time: 3153.183

about no fucking passion and purpose

Time: 3155.55

and how to get the fuck out of bed

Time: 3157.08

and how to hit a fucking alarm clock,

Time: 3159.09

all this catchphrase bullshit because that wasn't how

Time: 3163.37

I lived, wasn't how I lived.

Time: 3166.26

I lived, I woke up like every human being does

Time: 3168.24

and goes fuck, man.

Time: 3169.65

I'm a fucking piece of shit today.

Time: 3171.423

How the hell is this going to work out for me?

Time: 3173.34

And you fight that.

Time: 3175.328

And you fight that.

Time: 3176.12

You don't override it.

Time: 3177.98

There's no override button.

Time: 3179.45

It's the conversation in your head.

Time: 3182.72

So how do you do that?

Time: 3184.43

We don't have enough of these conversations

Time: 3186.41

about the real conversation that every human being is having.

Time: 3190.73

And they have no idea how to get out of it.

Time: 3192.53

But they do is that shit right there, man.

Time: 3196.17

You got to build your will.

Time: 3198.21

How you build your will?

Time: 3200.07

Exactly what you said, man.

Time: 3201.81

Exactly what you said.

Time: 3203.35

ANDREW HUBERMAN: Well, I feel like knowing

Time: 3205.29

the name of something, anterior mid-cingulate cortex,

Time: 3207.66

doesn't fundamentally change us.

Time: 3209.01

But one thing I like about biology

Time: 3211.89

is that willpower, if somebody feels they don't have it,

Time: 3216.225

feels like this thing that other people have.

Time: 3218.1

But everybody, unless they're brain-damaged,

Time: 3220.95

like a hole through their head, has two anterior

Time: 3225.285

mid-cingulate cortex, one on each side of their brain.

Time: 3228.03

Everyone has one.

Time: 3229.68

They have two.

Time: 3230.64

So I feel like it's just a question of opening the portal.

Time: 3235.99

And the portal-- again, I'm going to say 10 times,

Time: 3239.073

and forgive me-- is I think people

Time: 3240.49

go, oh, I do hard things.

Time: 3241.93

I do sets to failure.

Time: 3243.34

And then I do forced reps.

Time: 3244.99

I love training with weights.

Time: 3246.31

I love doing sets to failure.

Time: 3247.65

I even like forced reps.

Time: 3248.65

But guess what?

Time: 3249.4

I like forced reps.

Time: 3250.6

So I'll tell you, they don't build

Time: 3252.88

my anterior mid-cingulate cortex because I like to do it.

Time: 3256.36

Anything you like to do is not going

Time: 3258.73

to enhance this aspect of willpower.

Time: 3260.77

And it seems so obvious once you hear it.

Time: 3262.57

You kind of go, oh yeah, of course.

Time: 3264.37

But I think you really close that loop for people

Time: 3269.33

when you share what you're sharing today

Time: 3272.87

and what you've shared elsewhere before as well.

Time: 3274.88

When you're trying to explain the friction

Time: 3276.63

is the critical ingredient.

Time: 3278.78

And I think people think, oh, if it's effort, well,

Time: 3280.93

then I'm getting better.

Time: 3281.93

That's part of it, necessary, but not sufficient,

Time: 3284.69

as we say in science.

Time: 3285.8

But the suck part, the haunt, being haunted, the stick,

Time: 3292.34

they're really unpleasant terms.

Time: 3293.828

These are probably the most unpleasant terms we've ever

Time: 3296.12

used on this podcast.

Time: 3298.22

Those are the-- those are the levers.

Time: 3301.377

Those are the gears.

Time: 3302.21

And without those, this thing that you're talking about,

Time: 3305.39

David Goggins, as a verb--

Time: 3308.93

I sometimes make the joke, but it's not a joke.

Time: 3311.72

Goggins is a name, and it's a verb.

Time: 3315.77

People go, I'm on to Goggins that.

Time: 3317.99

But that's, I think--

Time: 3320.14

again, I'm not a psychologist.

Time: 3321.39

But I think that's what you're talking about,

Time: 3323.265

the stick, the friction, being haunted.

Time: 3326.1

It's the suck part that grows this anterior mid-cingulate

Time: 3329.85

cortex.

Time: 3330.52

DAVID GOGGINS: So now you know why

Time: 3332.25

there's so many people that fail in this world

Time: 3335.25

to figure out their purpose, their purpose in life.

Time: 3340.05

Where do I go?

Time: 3341.19

Because to grow that, now, you may not look like me,

Time: 3348

how my daily life looks.

Time: 3350.89

It don't look fun.

Time: 3353.7

Don't look fun.

Time: 3356.05

So it's a choice that people have to make in life.

Time: 3359.88

But what's so funny about it is even the richest of rich,

Time: 3362.97

who have everything, they always ask me this question.

Time: 3367.1

I feel like I'm missing something.

Time: 3370.85

I don't feel like I'm missing shit.

Time: 3373.7

I don't have what you all have.

Time: 3375.98

But you will never in my life hear me tell you

Time: 3380.16

I'm missing something.

Time: 3381.65

And everybody is.

Time: 3383.24

They're missing this feeling.

Time: 3386.31

I found it a long time ago.

Time: 3389.46

And I found it right there in that willpower thing.

Time: 3392.82

When you're nothing, nothing, and change yourself

Time: 3396.87

into something, like me, you call it happiness, peace,

Time: 3403.89

whatever the fuck you want to call it,

Time: 3407.53

people are missing exactly what went on with David Goggins.

Time: 3411.46

Why don't you smile?

Time: 3412.6

I do.

Time: 3413.68

I do.

Time: 3414.52

But I figured something out.

Time: 3416.18

That's why I am never--

Time: 3418.18

you never hear me say, I'm missing something.

Time: 3420.7

I found it years ago.

Time: 3422.48

You find it in the suck.

Time: 3426.36

You find it in the suck.

Time: 3427.38

And you find it repeatedly in the suck to the point

Time: 3430.38

where you know exactly who you are.

Time: 3432.4

Most people are missing something

Time: 3433.95

because they don't know who they are.

Time: 3437.45

They never examined themselves.

Time: 3439.805

They've never done this experiment on themselves.

Time: 3443.18

The lab rat.

Time: 3444.17

We're all lab rats.

Time: 3445.46

But you're also the scientist.

Time: 3448.76

You create your own self.

Time: 3450.83

Most people are missing something

Time: 3452.3

because there's so much trapped in there.

Time: 3455.942

I don't even want to say potential.

Time: 3457.4

I think that's a word-- it's used out too much too.

Time: 3459.68

There's so much in you that God or whoever the hell

Time: 3462.02

you believe in or if you're an atheist in you

Time: 3464.84

that you have not unlocked, that you walk around

Time: 3468.89

with this gorgeous wife or great husband and all this money.

Time: 3471.71

You're like, god, I feel like I'm missing something.

Time: 3474.23

Yeah, because it's about 75% of you

Time: 3478.04

is still fucking in there, still chained up because you just

Time: 3483.5

didn't want to find your willpower,

Time: 3485.54

didn't want to find your soul, your will, your heart,

Time: 3487.97

your determination, your guts, your courage.

Time: 3490.43

And what that looks like, it looks scary,

Time: 3492.32

like you're little scary lab that went in.

Time: 3494.87

Scary to wake up every day and say, I'm stupid,

Time: 3498.145

but I'm going to figure out a way

Time: 3499.52

to be smarter versus saying, man, I just can't do that.

Time: 3504.02

So you limit this box.

Time: 3505.72

So your box becomes so small of things you can do.

Time: 3509.71

My box wasn't even a box.

Time: 3511.96

It was a fucking little pinhole.

Time: 3515.2

And then through examining myself,

Time: 3518.02

getting some willpower, some courage,

Time: 3521.05

it became bigger than this table.

Time: 3522.55

But that's what we all do.

Time: 3523.64

That's why I wanted to come here today and talk

Time: 3525.598

to you about real shit, not no fucking hacks.

Time: 3528.97

There's no hacks, bro.

Time: 3530.62

It's you against you.

Time: 3532.63

You against you.

Time: 3534.14

And if you misunderstand that, you

Time: 3536.9

have a real problem, real problem.

Time: 3539.373

I can understand you misunderstand

Time: 3540.79

me, running down the street, shirt off, fuck this, no.

Time: 3543.55

Yeah.

Time: 3544.11

I can get it.

Time: 3544.79

I get it.

Time: 3545.86

If you misunderstand what I'm saying right now today,

Time: 3549.19

the problem is you.

Time: 3551.41

And you don't want to fix it.

Time: 3553.642

ANDREW HUBERMAN: Well, the children of wealthy people

Time: 3555.85

are a case study in how not having enough friction

Time: 3560.89

can destroy a life.

Time: 3561.77

DAVID GOGGINS: True statement.

Time: 3563.02

ANDREW HUBERMAN: I mean, I could list off

Time: 3564.902

prominent names in the press.

Time: 3566.11

But those are actually the least interesting.

Time: 3568.18

What's probably more interesting, as an example,

Time: 3570.85

is all the ones we don't hear about because we never

Time: 3573.58

hear about them.

Time: 3574.63

They just dwindle and wither.

Time: 3576.97

Or I think there's this big category of people,

Time: 3579.61

I'm realizing, as we have this conversation today that they're

Time: 3584

not super successful.

Time: 3585.29

They're not struggling.

Time: 3588.69

They're successful enough that they never have to--

Time: 3592.673

you can get to the point where you

Time: 3594.09

don't have to impose friction.

Time: 3596.07

You even said it.

Time: 3597.09

Your bank account is in a place where you don't really

Time: 3599.79

need to do all the things you do,

Time: 3601.38

probably not even a small fraction of them.

Time: 3602.94

DAVID GOGGINS: Do nothing.

Time: 3603.42

ANDREW HUBERMAN: Right.

Time: 3604.378

But you realize the stick and being haunted

Time: 3606.36

is the fuel and the engine.

Time: 3609.66

And you'd be a-- you'd be truly crazy to give that up

Time: 3613.2

because you've internalized all that.

Time: 3615.39

But most people, they're good enough for them.

Time: 3619.74

And so they don't actually want to be better badly enough

Time: 3623.94

in order to start going rung after rung.

Time: 3628.463

DAVID GOGGINS: Well, think about when you build willpower.

Time: 3630.88

And think about how much I've built.

Time: 3633.67

Now that you know about this--

Time: 3635.418

I didn't know about this.

Time: 3636.46

But think about how much I've built.

Time: 3638.17

Everything I've ever done in my life, I didn't want to do.

Time: 3642.22

Everything every day.

Time: 3644.47

I'm a lazy piece of shit.

Time: 3648.2

And I'm one of the hardest working people to ever step

Time: 3650.807

foot on this planet Earth.

Time: 3651.89

And I'm saying that very proudly because I know what I do.

Time: 3654.5

It's not cocky.

Time: 3655.58

I'll tell you I'm stupid.

Time: 3657.41

And I'll also tell you the exact opposite of what I've done.

Time: 3661.23

It's the truth.

Time: 3663.45

It is the truth.

Time: 3664.55

So imagine how much I've developed in that time frame.

Time: 3667.68

But this is the scary thing.

Time: 3670.37

Why most people don't want to do that and build that willpower

Time: 3675.68

is because it is scary.

Time: 3678.47

It unlocks a whole bunch of things about who you are

Time: 3680.93

and who you're not.

Time: 3682.56

And a lot of people don't want to go down that journey

Time: 3684.86

to discover who they are and who they're not

Time: 3687.75

because it's not a pretty journey.

Time: 3690.57

I mean, I've gone down it.

Time: 3691.79

It's not like I went down it once.

Time: 3694.33

I go down it all the time.

Time: 3696.74

And when you unlock that-- and you can't just turn it off.

Time: 3699.55

Like, people say, hey, how come you haven't retired yet?

Time: 3703.36

I built all this willpower.

Time: 3707.06

Do you think it's going to let me just

Time: 3710.98

retire because my knees hurt?

Time: 3713.875

It is telling me every morning--

Time: 3715.93

I wake up, and I'm like, man, my knees hurt.

Time: 3718.3

My legs hurt.

Time: 3718.96

My body hurts.

Time: 3719.92

But you can still run.

Time: 3721.95

So why aren't you running?

Time: 3724.06

If you can still run--

Time: 3725.595

there will be a time when you can't lace them up anymore.

Time: 3727.97

But you can still run.

Time: 3730.58

So I still run.

Time: 3732.64

When the time comes I can't run, the body will say,

Time: 3736.45

you just can't run.

Time: 3737.75

But if I can still do something, that

Time: 3740.65

willpower that I have created, it

Time: 3743.08

makes me do it every fucking day.

Time: 3746.29

And that's what they don't get.

Time: 3747.83

What builds a human being is you start with the small building

Time: 3751.82

blocks.

Time: 3752.32

And before you know it, man, you become something

Time: 3754.362

that it doesn't even make sense to most people

Time: 3756.73

because it's just who you are now.

Time: 3758.69

That's why I can still run at 50 with broke--

Time: 3761.14

at 49 with broke down knees and broke down body

Time: 3763.51

because my body knows you still can.

Time: 3766.09

Therefore, I do.

Time: 3767.29

Second you stop, the willpower is gone.

Time: 3770.85

And that's beautiful.

Time: 3771.96

I'm so glad you brought that to me because I always wondered,

Time: 3775.605

what's this separation thing now?

Time: 3778.52

At 24 years old, I started building something

Time: 3780.56

that I didn't even know was going

Time: 3781.935

to be what it is now at 49.

Time: 3783.47

And that's all it was.

Time: 3785.2

It was just that.

Time: 3787.475

ANDREW HUBERMAN: This structure, anterior mid-cingulate cortex,

Time: 3790.1

has inputs and outputs from a bunch of places.

Time: 3792.84

But you'll probably not be surprised to learn

Time: 3795.86

that it's strongly activated when we move our body when

Time: 3800.78

we don't want to move our body.

Time: 3803.51

I feel like it's like the David Goggins structure.

Time: 3805.943

DAVID GOGGINS: It really is.

Time: 3807.11

ANDREW HUBERMAN: It is.

Time: 3808.068

And it also has strong connections

Time: 3810.02

to the dopamine reward pathway.

Time: 3811.79

And everyone goes, yay, dopamine.

Time: 3813.47

Everyone loves dopamine.

Time: 3814.82

I'm partially responsible for people knowing a bit more

Time: 3818.03

about dopamine.

Time: 3819.2

But dopamine's badly understood.

Time: 3821.54

Everyone thinks dopamine, dopamine hits.

Time: 3823.37

It's about reward.

Time: 3824.63

It's about motivation and drive.

Time: 3827.31

And there are pain inputs to the dopamine centers of the brain.

Time: 3831.29

No one talks about that.

Time: 3832.4

Everyone's like, oh, you want the chocolate, chocolate, sex,

Time: 3835.58

cocaine.

Time: 3836.3

Yeah, that's all true.

Time: 3837.91

It'll release dopamine.

Time: 3839.09

Pain releases dopamine.

Time: 3840.89

The anterior mid-cingulate cortex

Time: 3842.96

can trigger the release of dopamine in response

Time: 3845.36

to this thing that we're calling friction.

Time: 3847.73

And that's a learned thing.

Time: 3850.01

That's something that no animal or human being

Time: 3852.35

comes into the world learning.

Time: 3853.71

We all are averse to pain.

Time: 3856.16

And like pleasure, like sugar, fat.

Time: 3859.04

Don't like hot surfaces.

Time: 3861.68

But this is a structure that learns.

Time: 3865.14

It has neuroplasticity, the ability

Time: 3867.81

to change throughout the entire life span.

Time: 3869.85

And here's the part that I think,

Time: 3871.26

again, is just neuro nerd speak for what you already know

Time: 3874.59

and have done and exemplify, is that people say,

Time: 3878.353

oh, it has plasticity.

Time: 3879.27

You can change it.

Time: 3880.05

But guess what?

Time: 3880.675

It has plasticity in both directions.

Time: 3882.51

It can grow.

Time: 3883.6

But just as easily as it can grow, it's like Silly Putty,

Time: 3886.35

it can shrink.

Time: 3887.7

So it requires constant upkeep.

Time: 3891.72

And that answer isn't one that people are going to like.

Time: 3894.6

They're like, give me the energy drink.

Time: 3896.522

Give me the supplement.

Time: 3897.48

Give me the-- give me the sauna protocol that's

Time: 3899.94

going to make my anterior mid-cingulate cortex-- there's

Time: 3902.28

someone out there right now who's going,

Time: 3903.36

wait, if I took transcranial magnetic stimulation

Time: 3905.623

and I stimulate-- yeah, you'd probably-- actually, they've

Time: 3908.04

done that.

Time: 3908.54

They stuck a little wire during neurosurgery

Time: 3910.59

into this structure.

Time: 3912.368

This was actually discovered by a colleague

Time: 3914.16

of mine, Joe Parvizi.

Time: 3917.16

Stimulate.

Time: 3917.76

And the patients go, I feel like there's a storm coming.

Time: 3921.75

And they go, oh, is it scary?

Time: 3923.16

And they go, no, I want to go through it.

Time: 3925.21

They come off the stimulation, and people are like--

Time: 3928.35

this is the seat of what we're talking about.

Time: 3930.955

DAVID GOGGINS: Right.

Time: 3931.83

Exactly.

Time: 3932.31

ANDREW HUBERMAN: And it learns.

Time: 3933.602

So the fact that you've kept this brain structure--

Time: 3936.06

I'm convinced if we imaged your brain, it'd be large,

Time: 3940.11

and it would be larger in two years, in a year.

Time: 3944.04

But this is the no days off rationale because it can grow,

Time: 3948.51

and it can shrink.

Time: 3949.273

DAVID GOGGINS: I know.

Time: 3950.19

What you're saying right now, I didn't know any of this.

Time: 3954.09

And I never-- and I always talk to you.

Time: 3955.985

But I wish I could just put this on paper.

Time: 3959.49

And you're saying it in a way that people can understand.

Time: 3962.8

I can never put it into words on what I built

Time: 3966.92

and the power that is within all of us.

Time: 3970.43

But you put it so in a scientific way.

Time: 3974.33

Most people, for me, he's just crazy.

Time: 3976.95

That's why I don't like talking about it, man.

Time: 3979.635

I know I'm not crazy.

Time: 3981

I know what I had to do to get where I had to go.

Time: 3984.425

People look at it as crazy because there are people

Time: 3986.55

that just--

Time: 3987.72

if you can't imagine yourself doing something,

Time: 3991.03

if you can't imagine yourself doing something,

Time: 3993.19

the person that's doing it is crazy

Time: 3996.67

because in your mind, the logic behind it, it doesn't compute.

Time: 4001.89

Therefore, you have to give somebody a title.

Time: 4004.5

And the title for me is usually he's crazy

Time: 4007.155

or he's this, he's that.

Time: 4008.43

No.

Time: 4009.12

No.

Time: 4011

For some reason, me wanting to be somebody

Time: 4013.49

so fucking bad in my life, I created that.

Time: 4017.793

And I've been trying to figure out

Time: 4019.21

years of my life trying to explain to people.

Time: 4022.52

But even though you're explaining it now,

Time: 4026.86

this is the easy fucking part.

Time: 4029.71

Them listening to this shit is the easy fucking part.

Time: 4033.5

The part that why they're always be the ones of ones

Time: 4038.08

is because putting that practice,

Time: 4042.66

putting that into actual work, no, man.

Time: 4046.43

No.

Time: 4047.27

No.

Time: 4047.82

That's where the demons come in.

Time: 4049.89

That's where you're like, I don't want to be better.

Time: 4053.427

I don't want to be better.

Time: 4054.51

If this is what it takes to be better,

Time: 4055.81

I don't want to be better.

Time: 4056.98

So everybody's-- that's why there's a lot of average.

Time: 4060.39

And it makes me so fucking mad.

Time: 4063.63

Every day I walk this Earth, and I see average

Time: 4066.87

all over the fucking place.

Time: 4068.47

And they want to ask me, how did you do it?

Time: 4071.313

I can't tell you how because you're not going to fucking--

Time: 4073.73

you're not going to do it.

Time: 4075.14

You're not going to do it you.

Time: 4076.67

You're just going to--

Time: 4077.09

You're going to continue being like this every day

Time: 4078.95

you wake up.

Time: 4079.64

Like you said, it's like, get the coffee.

Time: 4083.105

Make the pancakes.

Time: 4085.56

Kiss the girl.

Time: 4086.58

Kiss the kids.

Time: 4088.095

You wake up, right to work.

Time: 4090.66

Immediate, your mind is in action.

Time: 4093.55

No one wants to do that.

Time: 4095.16

No one.

Time: 4095.85

And I don't blame them.

Time: 4097.17

But don't be mad when you're laying there

Time: 4099.967

in your fucking bed, and you're in the fucking hospital,

Time: 4102.3

and you're 70, 80, 90 years old.

Time: 4104.49

And you're thinking, man, I feel like I

Time: 4107.359

didn't fucking do something.

Time: 4109.1

Because you did.

Time: 4110.51

You didn't do it.

Time: 4111.92

You didn't do shit.

Time: 4113.897

You may have lived a great life, man,

Time: 4115.439

but you're always going to feel empty inside.

Time: 4117.314

I don't feel empty.

Time: 4118.35

So call me what you want.

Time: 4119.79

There's not one empty bone in my fucking body

Time: 4124.02

because I have figured out that really--

Time: 4127.77

the magic potion, at least to my life.

Time: 4130.26

And it's very rewarding.

Time: 4132.321

ANDREW HUBERMAN: I'd like to take a quick break

Time: 4134.279

and thank our sponsor, InsideTracker.

Time: 4136.5

InsideTracker is a personalized nutrition platform

Time: 4139.17

that analyzes data from your blood and DNA

Time: 4141.689

to help me better understand your body

Time: 4143.46

and help you reach your health goals.

Time: 4145.39

I've long been a believer in getting regular blood work done

Time: 4147.913

for the simple reason that many of the factors that impact

Time: 4150.33

your immediate and long-term health

Time: 4151.92

can only be analyzed from a quality blood test.

Time: 4154.783

Now, a major problem with a lot of blood

Time: 4156.45

tests out there, however, is that you get information

Time: 4159.06

back about metabolic factors, lipids, and hormones

Time: 4161.58

and so forth.

Time: 4162.31

But you don't know what to do with that information

Time: 4164.435

With InsideTracker, they make it very easy,

Time: 4166.47

because they have a personalized platform, that

Time: 4168.63

allows you to see the levels of all

Time: 4170.609

those things, metabolic factors, lipids, hormones, et cetera.

Time: 4173.34

But it gives you specific directives

Time: 4175.439

that you can follow that relate to nutrition,

Time: 4177.6

behavioral modification, supplements,

Time: 4179.35

et cetera that can help you bring

Time: 4180.81

those numbers into the ranges that are optimal for you.

Time: 4183.609

If you'd like to try InsideTracker,

Time: 4185.069

you can go to insidetracker.com/huberman

Time: 4188.16

to get 20% off any of InsideTracker's plans.

Time: 4191.04

Again, that's insidetracker.com/huberman.

Time: 4195.1

People like to talk about what they used to be able to do.

Time: 4198.82

I hear this a lot.

Time: 4199.835

You should have seen me in high school.

Time: 4201.46

I always laugh.

Time: 4202.65

Like, yeah, OK.

Time: 4203.74

Got it.

Time: 4204.82

And it's not just guys.

Time: 4205.99

You should have seen me working out in high school.

Time: 4208.115

I was super fit.

Time: 4209.38

People will look back to a time where

Time: 4211.81

they felt like they were capable of something.

Time: 4214.36

And now they're not.

Time: 4215.65

And you kind of want to just grab them and go, wait.

Time: 4218.02

That was you then.

Time: 4218.83

It's you now.

Time: 4219.58

And but people tend to think about how

Time: 4221.65

the conditions that were around success

Time: 4225.76

must have been part of it.

Time: 4227.2

And you can understand why.

Time: 4228.58

It's very rational.

Time: 4230.29

I was in that situation.

Time: 4231.55

I was successful.

Time: 4232.27

I'm in this situation.

Time: 4233.3

I'm not.

Time: 4234.04

That was the past.

Time: 4235.27

This is the present.

Time: 4237.01

Ergo, capable.

Time: 4239.26

You see how people get into these loops.

Time: 4241.165

And as you mentioned, you spent the first 20 years of your life

Time: 4243.79

in extremely challenged circumstances.

Time: 4246.79

And then you can see how people get to a point

Time: 4248.95

where everything feels hard.

Time: 4252.08

Like, when you're 300 pounds--

Time: 4253.33

I haven't ever been 300 pounds.

Time: 4255.94

But I can't imagine it feels good to get up and move around.

Time: 4259.4

DAVID GOGGINS: It's defeating.

Time: 4260.65

ANDREW HUBERMAN: I got a friend.

Time: 4261.983

He's in excess of 300 pounds.

Time: 4264.34

We've been trying on him for years.

Time: 4265.9

But no win.

Time: 4267.7

And he's got crazy psoriasis on the back of his calves.

Time: 4270.46

And he actually smells bad sometimes

Time: 4273.16

because he can't wash as well as he would.

Time: 4275.92

He's big, big.

Time: 4277.69

And it pulls all my sympathy.

Time: 4280.69

But life is very hard for him and getting worse.

Time: 4283.135

He's a young guy with a lot of medical issues

Time: 4285.01

now, for obvious reasons.

Time: 4287.36

And so I think people like that think, well, it's already hard.

Time: 4291.38

Why would I make it harder?

Time: 4294.46

Your message is a little different.

Time: 4296.29

And you have the life experience.

Time: 4298.21

DAVID GOGGINS: It's a lot different.

Time: 4298.96

ANDREW HUBERMAN: You've been there.

Time: 4300.418

So for me, saying, oh yeah, lose weight--

Time: 4304.465

I was a skinny guy who got to be a less skinny guy.

Time: 4307.92

So I don't really have a foot to stand on.

Time: 4313

What do you say to those people who are like,

Time: 4315.29

listen, getting up in the morning is hard.

Time: 4318.62

Trying to not dissolve into a puddle of my own tears

Time: 4320.9

and my own misery is hard.

Time: 4323.88

DAVID GOGGINS: You know why people connect with my books

Time: 4326.36

so well?

Time: 4326.99

For some reason, God put me in almost every fucked up

Time: 4329.27

situation on the planet Earth.

Time: 4331.41

So when I talk to people, it's not sugar-coated

Time: 4334.68

because I'm not saying it from I was a 175 pounds my whole life.

Time: 4341.52

I don't say much to those people.

Time: 4344.93

Maybe you're a piece of shit.

Time: 4347.1

Maybe you want to be nobody.

Time: 4349.77

Maybe you're happy exactly where you are in life

Time: 4351.96

because obviously, you are.

Time: 4353.37

Maybe you don't have the determination

Time: 4355.23

to be somebody better than who you are.

Time: 4357.73

And if you want to live with that, I'll support you in that.

Time: 4362.88

If you're good with being who you are, that every day you

Time: 4366.21

wake up, and every day, you smell like shit because you

Time: 4368.64

can't wash your body well, and your skin is messed up

Time: 4371.28

because your health's so bad, and you

Time: 4373.05

can't put your clothes on right, you need help with that.

Time: 4374.82

You need help like-- when I was 300 pounds,

Time: 4376.612

I needed help wiping my ass.

Time: 4379.32

That makes you feel good?

Time: 4382.07

Nothing I can say to you.

Time: 4384.09

If every day you wake up with this-- see, people are haunted.

Time: 4388.49

But they obviously like horror films

Time: 4390.947

because they keep watching the same fucking movie.

Time: 4393.03

I don't like horror films.

Time: 4394.73

A lot of people like horror films.

Time: 4396.63

So I don't say much to them.

Time: 4398.4

I say exactly what I said to you right there

Time: 4401.6

because I was once you.

Time: 4404.18

I didn't like horror films, so I changed it.

Time: 4406.61

Some people are just--

Time: 4408.62

they become-- like you said, it gets real small

Time: 4411.59

when you're lazy and you're fat, your will.

Time: 4415.79

Their will is so small that they don't have any.

Time: 4419.15

And you can't give it to them.

Time: 4421.05

There has to be something-- this is

Time: 4422.87

what I'm talking about now because this isn't a hack.

Time: 4427.1

This has to be in you.

Time: 4429.65

Something in you has to wake up.

Time: 4433.2

And usually, the only person that can wake it up is you.

Time: 4436.72

Sometimes you can read a David Goggins book

Time: 4438.52

because I was all this shit and then a lot more of fucked up.

Time: 4443.03

But if you don't have a little flame, just barely--

Time: 4448.24

you're done.

Time: 4450.51

I can't light it for you.

Time: 4453.21

And that's the harsh reality of this life

Time: 4455.91

that I want to get across so fucking bad.

Time: 4458.7

You can watch me.

Time: 4459.93

You can watch you.

Time: 4460.71

You can watch fucking Rogan and Cameron

Time: 4462.25

Hanes, all these motherfuckers.

Time: 4463.542

You can go to Tony Robbins's fucking bullshit,

Time: 4466.47

all this shit.

Time: 4467.34

You can do all this shit.

Time: 4470.185

You're going to keep going back and keep

Time: 4472.51

spending money and spending money and spending

Time: 4475.03

money with no results.

Time: 4476.35

You're going to wonder, wow.

Time: 4477.58

Maybe let me go try out David Goggins.

Time: 4479.89

He ain't going to fucking help you.

Time: 4482.66

You have to explore, examine the insides of yourself.

Time: 4487.92

And what do you really want out of life?

Time: 4489.89

Your friend and a lot of people out here

Time: 4492.08

just don't fucking want it.

Time: 4494.13

So guess what?

Time: 4496.71

Have fun with your life.

Time: 4498.95

Go from 300 to 350 to 400 to 450 to 500

Time: 4503.08

because you don't want it.

Time: 4507.41

And that's the harsh reality.

Time: 4509.24

I can't give you shit.

Time: 4511.31

You can't give them shit.

Time: 4512.93

We can give you ideas.

Time: 4514.51

But end of the day, when I was losing the weight,

Time: 4518.15

I had to miserably wake up every morning in the cold

Time: 4522.89

because it was Indiana, November, when it started.

Time: 4525.44

I was miserable.

Time: 4528.92

This is your new life.

Time: 4531.85

Take it or leave it.

Time: 4533.17

There's no happiness about it.

Time: 4535.21

There's no peace behind it.

Time: 4537.84

It sucks.

Time: 4538.8

It just fucking sucks.

Time: 4541.8

And that's the one thing, if I could teach anybody anything,

Time: 4546.12

it just fucking sucks.

Time: 4548.985

And it's going to continue to suck.

Time: 4551.47

And then one day, you'll get to a special part in your life

Time: 4554.62

that it might get a little bit better.

Time: 4556.66

But to lose the weight you have to lose, my friend, sorry.

Time: 4562.48

It's going to suck every fucking day because then when

Time: 4565.055

you're 300 pounds, you're going to go out to lose weight,

Time: 4567.43

you could probably get injured.

Time: 4569.52

So then you got to work on the injury.

Time: 4571.2

And then you get even more depressed.

Time: 4572.46

This is what I went through.

Time: 4573.66

And then you're hungry because now you're depressed.

Time: 4576.55

It's just a vicious cycle.

Time: 4578.83

And if you're not strong mentally

Time: 4581.19

and you have no willpower, you're

Time: 4583.5

going to continue falling back in this hole

Time: 4585.69

versus the man that sits back and goes,

Time: 4587.35

all right, motherfucker.

Time: 4588.69

This is why I cuss because this is what is in me.

Time: 4591.12

This is what it took for me to be me.

Time: 4594.12

Sorry.

Time: 4595.05

It didn't take, hey, OK, we're going to do this today.

Time: 4597.34

No.

Time: 4597.84

This fucking really sucks.

Time: 4599.97

This is real, dude.

Time: 4601.71

This is real.

Time: 4603.06

And every day, I'm set back.

Time: 4606.21

I'm set back.

Time: 4606.93

I'm set back.

Time: 4607.59

I'm set back.

Time: 4608.43

So this is what I would tell your boy.

Time: 4610.44

This is exactly what I'd tell him.

Time: 4611.91

Every day you wake up, you're going to probably

Time: 4613.98

be set back for the first four weeks

Time: 4615.48

before you lose significant weight because the mind is

Time: 4618.907

going to be fucking with you the whole time.

Time: 4620.74

There's no dopamine.

Time: 4622.87

There's no dopamine in there at 300 pounds.

Time: 4625.48

You got nothing.

Time: 4626.44

Your hormones are shot.

Time: 4628.7

You have to envision something that is more powerful than you.

Time: 4633.88

Something has to get you out of bed.

Time: 4637.05

And you have to create it.

Time: 4638.68

It has to be false because you're not it.

Time: 4641.94

You're a fat piece of shit.

Time: 4643.8

And that's the reality of it.

Time: 4645.15

So you have to create a false reality, to live in that

Time: 4650.93

just to get to work on yourself.

Time: 4655.04

That's the reality.

Time: 4656.44

ANDREW HUBERMAN: He'll see this, and he'll

Time: 4658.19

appreciate that message.

Time: 4659.19

We'll see what he does.

Time: 4660.68

DAVID GOGGINS: We'll see.

Time: 4661.722

ANDREW HUBERMAN: So far, last 13 years, it's been no movement.

Time: 4664.88

But I have had other friends who were

Time: 4668.93

drug and alcohol addicts who quit after one conversation.

Time: 4672.29

Never went back.

Time: 4673.1

DAVID GOGGINS: That's awesome.

Time: 4674.35

That means they want it.

Time: 4675.5

ANDREW HUBERMAN: Yeah, just one guy, I won't out him,

Time: 4678.32

but walked up to me at a party in 2019, July 4th party,

Time: 4681.98

and said, I'm a pile.

Time: 4684.35

And I go, what?

Time: 4685.11

And he goes, I'm a pile.

Time: 4685.91

Look at me.

Time: 4686.24

I'm 60 pounds overweight.

Time: 4687.44

And I go, do you drink?

Time: 4688.13

He goes, every day.

Time: 4688.82

I go, how much?

Time: 4689.445

He goes, a case.

Time: 4691.33

He goes, I smoke a lot of weed.

Time: 4692.8

But he's successful in other areas of his life.

Time: 4695.9

And so I said, well, here's what I know.

Time: 4698.02

Quit alcohol and weed for you.

Time: 4700.42

I'm not telling people what to do.

Time: 4702.46

Don't eat until 2:00 PM.

Time: 4704.68

Get on an exercise bike, and pedal

Time: 4707.86

in the morning like someone's chasing you with a poison dart

Time: 4711.92

until you want to puke.

Time: 4713.33

And I was kind of half-joking.

Time: 4715.58

And then two months later, he was, like,

Time: 4719.223

I haven't had a drink.

Time: 4720.14

I lost 30 pounds.

Time: 4721

He lost those 60 pounds.

Time: 4722

He never went back.

Time: 4722.792

Now, he's super fit.

Time: 4724.61

It's amazing.

Time: 4725.48

So some people flip the switch.

Time: 4727.31

He is very self-critical by nature.

Time: 4730.273

DAVID GOGGINS: That's what flips--

Time: 4731.69

ANDREW HUBERMAN: He's super self-critical.

Time: 4733.13

DAVID GOGGINS: Yep.

Time: 4733.922

That's what flips the switch.

Time: 4735.65

Think about it, man.

Time: 4737

We know what to do.

Time: 4739.5

We don't need Andrew Huberman to tell us what to do.

Time: 4742.62

We know what to do, every one of us.

Time: 4745.62

That's why he flipped it so fast because he knew what to do.

Time: 4750.01

He didn't go by your exact protocol.

Time: 4753.49

He didn't go by the exact--

Time: 4755.32

no.

Time: 4755.92

He knew exactly what to do.

Time: 4759.84

And you just saying some shit to him, it woke something up.

Time: 4764.43

He knew what to do.

Time: 4765.55

And that's the thing that people need to get that.

Time: 4768.72

You know what to do.

Time: 4769.62

Why aren't you doing it?

Time: 4771.51

ANDREW HUBERMAN: And I'm talking about myself now.

Time: 4774.332

Those modes of just kind of passive consumption,

Time: 4777.27

they're so easy to wash over us.

Time: 4779.44

I used to have this thing, and I'm fighting this

Time: 4781.44

now because I knew we were going to have this conversation

Time: 4783.39

today, where I like to start things

Time: 4784.848

on the hour or the half hour.

Time: 4786.24

Worst practice in the world for me

Time: 4790.69

because if I miss that half hour, I'm like, oh, it's 12:33.

Time: 4795.55

I'll start at 12:45.

Time: 4798.13

Ah, it's 12:45.

Time: 4800.17

I'll start at 1:00.

Time: 4801.28

I just lost time.

Time: 4803.86

And so this is so stupid.

Time: 4805.848

And the other day, I was like, man, I

Time: 4807.39

got to tell David about this because my new thing is I start

Time: 4810.46

no matter what time it is.

Time: 4812.262

If I wake up in the middle of the night--

Time: 4813.97

I got a friend.

Time: 4814.4

He paints in the middle of the night.

Time: 4815.47

I'm like, you're an insomniac?

Time: 4816.72

He's like, I don't know.

Time: 4817.808

I just do it.

Time: 4818.35

Then sometimes he goes back to sleep.

Time: 4819.58

Sometimes he doesn't.

Time: 4820.555

Everyone's got their thing.

Time: 4821.68

But I thought about this.

Time: 4822.4

I'm like, no more am I going to say I'm starting

Time: 4824.47

at 1:00 because I know me.

Time: 4826.42

If I miss the 1:00 ding and then my pen's not hitting the paper

Time: 4830.32

or I'm not typing on the keyboard,

Time: 4832.3

I'm not going to do it.

Time: 4833.53

But That's a self-admitted weakness.

Time: 4836.26

DAVID GOGGINS: I love it, man.

Time: 4837.79

I had that for a lot of years.

Time: 4840.95

I know I'm going to do it.

Time: 4843.02

That's the haunting part is that it's going to happen.

Time: 4848.87

It has to happen.

Time: 4851.23

And that's a fact.

Time: 4852.42

Like, there's no get out of jail free card, bro.

Time: 4855.83

None.

Time: 4856.85

Like, that is a life that I don't know.

Time: 4860.06

I don't have that ability.

Time: 4863.8

Or I have the ability.

Time: 4864.97

I don't have the--

Time: 4867.96

I'm not good enough, smart enough.

Time: 4871.41

I'm not talented enough to do that.

Time: 4876.5

Some people are.

Time: 4878.19

Some people can start at 1:00.

Time: 4879.66

Some people don't have to start at all.

Time: 4882.08

If you lack talent, you can't sit back and say,

Time: 4887.125

I'll start in half an hour.

Time: 4890.26

I can't do that.

Time: 4891.34

I got to start now.

Time: 4892.75

And after I get back from starting, I got to start again.

Time: 4895.72

And then when I get done with that run or that study session,

Time: 4898.51

if it wasn't good enough, I got to go back again

Time: 4901.07

because repetition is what taught me everything.

Time: 4905.27

So you can honestly outwork anything.

Time: 4908.22

But it's that you, obviously, are a very talented man.

Time: 4913.05

ANDREW HUBERMAN: Well, I have worked hard at certain things

Time: 4916.02

and built up some things that I've

Time: 4919.05

been good at most of my life.

Time: 4920.258

DAVID GOGGINS: You're amazing.

Time: 4921.508

ANDREW HUBERMAN: Gathering, organizing, and disseminating

Time: 4923.97

information's something I've been

Time: 4924.87

doing since I was a little kid.

Time: 4925.74

I used to give lectures at school on Monday about stuff

Time: 4928.14

I learned over the weekend.

Time: 4929.34

DAVID GOGGINS: See, check that out.

Time: 4930.06

ANDREW HUBERMAN: But they took me to a psychiatrist.

Time: 4932.227

We're the same age.

Time: 4933.03

Back then, if you got sent to a psychiatrist,

Time: 4934.96

people thought you were crazy.

Time: 4936.21

DAVID GOGGINS: I was one.

Time: 4936.93

ANDREW HUBERMAN: Yeah, exactly.

Time: 4937.62

DAVID GOGGINS: I was one.

Time: 4938.19

ANDREW HUBERMAN: Exactly.

Time: 4939.232

So I remember feeling like a freak.

Time: 4940.82

Also, I didn't have a stutter, but I had a grunting tic.

Time: 4943.44

It comes back when I'm tired.

Time: 4944.97

And the only thing that helped that was hitting

Time: 4947.92

my head on something, shaking my head,

Time: 4951.262

which is why skateboarding was good because I'd slam,

Time: 4953.47

and I'd feel like, oh.

Time: 4954.58

I feel good.

Time: 4955.48

But that's not healthy.

Time: 4957.25

That's not good.

Time: 4958.03

Or just work.

Time: 4959.24

Work is what gets it out.

Time: 4960.46

It's like an-- it's like an RPM or high.

Time: 4962.71

[REVVING SOUND] Anyway, that's me.

Time: 4965.5

But yeah, I think certain things over time,

Time: 4967.597

I feel like talent or gifts or whatever you want to call them,

Time: 4970.18

but there are many things that are

Time: 4971.597

exceedingly difficult for me.

Time: 4974.14

And I have learned from your example.

Time: 4975.94

I know that you are very both humble and very clear

Time: 4979.03

that you don't have-- you say, you're

Time: 4981.97

not going to get it by examining you.

Time: 4983.59

But I think the way you're sharing today

Time: 4986.02

and the way you've shared it on other podcasts before,

Time: 4989.33

there are pieces that really help

Time: 4991.99

people feel into the process of what

Time: 4995.095

you're talking about today.

Time: 4996.22

We're elaborating on it, I think, a lot, this notion

Time: 4999.28

of being haunted and the stick.

Time: 5001.44

I mean, of course, of course, now it makes so much sense why

Time: 5005.07

you don't want to talk about sleep or rest or recovery

Time: 5007.68

because that's--

Time: 5008.79

sure, that's important.

Time: 5010.062

I've heard you say, yes, you sleep.

Time: 5011.52

Yes, you eat.

Time: 5012.21

Yes, you hydrate.

Time: 5013.05

Yes, you will stretch your psoas or whatever.

Time: 5015.48

But it's funny how that becomes the viral message.

Time: 5017.98

DAVID GOGGINS: That's why I said fuck that today.

Time: 5018.93

ANDREW HUBERMAN: But that's not the unique--

Time: 5020.763

that's not the unique message that you carry.

Time: 5024.21

Like, anyone can talk about that.

Time: 5026.96

So do I have that right?

Time: 5027.96

That you're acknowledging sleep is important.

Time: 5029.55

Recovery is important.

Time: 5030.3

DAVID GOGGINS: Yes.

Time: 5030.6

ANDREW HUBERMAN: But that's not what you're about.

Time: 5032.697

DAVID GOGGINS: You have to forego something.

Time: 5034.53

Yes.

Time: 5035.76

Ice baths.

Time: 5037.17

Saunas.

Time: 5038.25

Sleep.

Time: 5039.22

Nutrition.

Time: 5040.38

All this shit's so fucking important, dude.

Time: 5043.38

I don't have time for some of it.

Time: 5046.58

To extract what I had to extract, something had to give.

Time: 5050.27

Like, you talk about you when you were younger.

Time: 5052.28

You would give these speeches and stuff.

Time: 5055.31

The same age you were giving speeches,

Time: 5057.56

I was trying to figure out how to say the without stuttering.

Time: 5061.25

And I realized, as I got older, that all these things are

Time: 5064.7

important.

Time: 5066.8

But for me to stop stuttering, I got

Time: 5068.987

to build fucking confidence.

Time: 5072.04

And speech therapy didn't help that.

Time: 5074.89

Nothing helped that.

Time: 5076.42

I have to forgo a lot of shit to be as fucked up

Time: 5080.2

as I am to build confidence, for me

Time: 5083.47

to stand in a fucking room of 10,000-- of one person, and not

Time: 5086.843

[STUTTERING SOUNDS] and be like, oh, and put my head down.

Time: 5089.26

Let me look around.

Time: 5091.42

Let me read these paragraphs first.

Time: 5094.457

And then before I read the paragraphs,

Time: 5096.04

because they're calling me next, let

Time: 5097.54

me just leave the room because I'm going to stutter.

Time: 5100.08

That's a miserable life.

Time: 5102.28

And that's one of many things I did besides lying,

Time: 5105.4

besides being insecure, besides being immature,

Time: 5107.92

besides being fat, besides being one of the only Black kids

Time: 5111.128

in my school.

Time: 5111.67

There's a lot of things I had to overcome to gain confidence.

Time: 5116.68

And in doing so, a lot of that had to go.

Time: 5120.52

A lot of it.

Time: 5121.34

So I became the guy that became, once again, misunderstood.

Time: 5124.21

You only sleep four hours a day, two hours a day?

Time: 5126.49

Sometimes you don't sleep at all?

Time: 5128.77

Like, what's this, and what's this, and what's this?

Time: 5131.32

I know it's all important.

Time: 5135.01

I can't.

Time: 5135.51

Something's got to go.

Time: 5136.71

For me to get confidence, because confidence

Time: 5139.44

is the building block of where I'm trying to go,

Time: 5141.72

for me to gain confidence in myself,

Time: 5144

this fucked up kid has got to do a lot of fucked up shit

Time: 5146.73

to gain confidence.

Time: 5148.35

And along the way, the stutter went away.

Time: 5151.02

And I gained confidence.

Time: 5152.64

And now, my life is a little bit more--

Time: 5156.72

there is no balance.

Time: 5159.41

There is no balance.

Time: 5161.05

It's a little bit more what it should be for a lot of people.

Time: 5165.138

But there'll never be balance because confidence is something

Time: 5167.68

that you're constantly--

Time: 5169.03

confidence and belief you're building every day.

Time: 5173.42

And so something's got to give.

Time: 5175.692

And I'm willing to forego a lot of things

Time: 5177.4

to have that because I know if you

Time: 5180.94

want to give somebody kryptonite,

Time: 5183.56

take that shit away from them.

Time: 5185.47

So yeah, I don't sleep sometimes.

Time: 5187.48

And sometimes I don't eat the right way.

Time: 5189.29

And sometimes I don't do this and do that and whatever, man.

Time: 5191.79

But you put me in a room of 10,000 people any time

Time: 5194.29

of the day, and I'll walk in there thinking

Time: 5196.3

I'm the baddest motherfucker in here

Time: 5198.13

because I know what it took to be on this stage.

Time: 5200.35

And a lot of people would not do that.

Time: 5202.76

So that's what it takes.

Time: 5204.952

ANDREW HUBERMAN: There's a question

Time: 5206.41

I've been wanting to ask you since we started.

Time: 5208.72

And I thought about coming in here.

Time: 5210.31

And I've been thinking about in the weeks ahead of this.

Time: 5212.39

And I'm going to just come clean and say I don't exactly

Time: 5214.75

know how to ask the question.

Time: 5216.9

DAVID GOGGINS: Just ask it.

Time: 5218.18

ANDREW HUBERMAN: It's about relationships.

Time: 5219.93

DAVID GOGGINS: Oh, do it, man.

Time: 5221.18

ANDREW HUBERMAN: So I know in myself

Time: 5225.84

that my discipline is much higher when it's just me.

Time: 5229.11

But that's because I had certain things early on.

Time: 5232.853

But then I was a terrible student.

Time: 5234.27

Barely finished high school.

Time: 5235.15

But then when I got serious, I got serious.

Time: 5236.942

But I did that by staying away from everybody.

Time: 5240.36

And anyone's who's ever had a relationship of any kind,

Time: 5245.25

but in particular, romantic relationships,

Time: 5247.29

knows that, yes, you can derive tremendous support from those.

Time: 5250.83

Like, you got this, baby.

Time: 5251.9

You can go.

Time: 5252.4

And you're like, yeah.

Time: 5253.317

I got this.

Time: 5254.17

She said I got this.

Time: 5255.918

Feels great to finish something and share with someone,

Time: 5258.21

share a meal, get the hug.

Time: 5260.73

But there's another side to all of that

Time: 5263.25

that I'd like to learn more about from you,

Time: 5265.42

which is there's a warm body next to you

Time: 5268.5

in bed in the morning.

Time: 5269.55

You don't want to get up.

Time: 5270.76

They also have needs.

Time: 5272.46

You've got your mission that people sometimes

Time: 5276.81

need things from us.

Time: 5278.13

But also, oftentimes, the people that

Time: 5280.89

love us most, that truly love us and that want to support us,

Time: 5284.2

don't understand this thing.

Time: 5287.23

And they're the first people to tell us, like, listen.

Time: 5292.13

Take a day off.

Time: 5293.33

And then this whole cycle, at least in my head,

Time: 5295.49

goes off, like, you just want a vacation.

Time: 5297.5

And then it's almost like a paranoia.

Time: 5299.63

I'm not saying anything nice about myself right now.

Time: 5301.97

DAVID GOGGINS: All good, man.

Time: 5302.48

ANDREW HUBERMAN: Former girlfriends

Time: 5303.11

are going to be like, yeah.

Time: 5304.235

Like, they remember that.

Time: 5305.85

And so support of people close to you is critical.

Time: 5309.423

This could be friends.

Time: 5310.34

Could be romantic partners.

Time: 5311.24

Whatever.

Time: 5311.93

But they're also-- the knife cuts both ways.

Time: 5315.542

It can be the thing that can really

Time: 5317

undermine this thing that you're talking about because people

Time: 5320.48

that care about us also want to see us comfortable.

Time: 5322.857

They want to see us happy.

Time: 5323.94

They want to see us peaceful.

Time: 5325.16

They want to see us wake up from a great night's sleep.

Time: 5327.452

And they want things too.

Time: 5329.42

So how do you untangle that whole bit?

Time: 5331.928

DAVID GOGGINS: Well, it's funny, man.

Time: 5333.47

I'm unbalanced, but I'm mostly unbalanced

Time: 5335.63

towards the family side, which people don't get about me.

Time: 5338.783

I'll start being unbalanced.

Time: 5339.95

I get all my stuff in.

Time: 5341.46

But what I do is I make sure that my family has everything

Time: 5344.15

they need, everything they need, those who

Time: 5348.76

want to be part of my family.

Time: 5350.7

Some don't.

Time: 5351.54

Some family members don't want to be part of David Goggins.

Time: 5354.24

I get it.

Time: 5354.75

I got it.

Time: 5355.53

That's life.

Time: 5356.91

Those who are part of my family, I

Time: 5360

give them everything they need so they

Time: 5362.1

can leave me the fuck alone.

Time: 5365.03

I make sure you're happy as fuck because I got to go to work.

Time: 5367.82

And I don't mean smokejumping.

Time: 5370.7

I don't mean running.

Time: 5372.77

I mean all of it.

Time: 5374.55

It takes every--

Time: 5375.93

I can't have you in my fucking shit.

Time: 5378.4

I can't.

Time: 5379.57

So I know for me to have a family,

Time: 5382.027

I gotta make sure that you realize I'm going to give you

Time: 5384.36

everything you need.

Time: 5384.97

So when you start bitching at me,

Time: 5386.345

I'm going to say, look, hang on.

Time: 5388.99

I dedicated my life to give you everything you need.

Time: 5391.39

I need this time right here for me

Time: 5394.263

to be the best I can be because this journey started

Time: 5396.43

without anybody.

Time: 5398.13

And I make sure everybody knows that who comes in my life.

Time: 5400.8

I've been left-- think about it.

Time: 5403.78

I was left alone at a young age to figure this shit out.

Time: 5409.94

I figured it out for myself and have been very successful

Time: 5413.71

for myself.

Time: 5414.83

No one's going to come in here and fuck with my shit.

Time: 5417.688

That's why I make sure I will take care of whatever you need.

Time: 5420.23

Whatever you need from me, you got it.

Time: 5422.18

Money, house, my love, my support,

Time: 5425.12

I'm going to give you everything you need.

Time: 5427.46

That said, I do it the highest level possible.

Time: 5431.315

And I'm saying that with Jennifer in the next room.

Time: 5433.44

So please come here and say something

Time: 5434.63

if it's wrong, Jennifer.

Time: 5435.47

I don't give a fuck.

Time: 5436.303

Say what you got to say.

Time: 5437.69

So then when it's time for me to go to work,

Time: 5440.48

I expect you to do the same for me

Time: 5443.54

because it takes every bit of me to do what I have to do.

Time: 5448.14

So I make sure that I'm very unbalanced from my family

Time: 5452.16

so I can be exactly that unbalanced for myself.

Time: 5456.21

And that's how I do it.

Time: 5458.23

I let people know right up front,

Time: 5460.88

I'm not what you want in a man.

Time: 5466.37

I guarantee that.

Time: 5467.9

There's going to be a lot of late nights,

Time: 5469.845

a lot of early mornings, a lot of times

Time: 5471.47

where I got to be by myself thinking about the process that

Time: 5474.74

is next in my mind.

Time: 5476.66

I can't have aggravation.

Time: 5477.95

I can't have this.

Time: 5478.43

Can't have that.

Time: 5478.85

There's a lot of things.

Time: 5479.85

But I let them know up front.

Time: 5481.7

I'm very vocal about that.

Time: 5483.65

Sometimes relationships work for me.

Time: 5485.48

Sometimes they didn't.

Time: 5487.26

But that's who I am.

Time: 5488.48

One thing I did wrong in my life was I tried for so many years

Time: 5492.17

to please people.

Time: 5495.13

And I did it at the expense of myself.

Time: 5500.28

I was leaving a lot in the tank.

Time: 5502.78

And when you do that, you stop living.

Time: 5505.87

But the person in your life is happy as fuck

Time: 5508.9

because you're giving them everything they want.

Time: 5510.97

They have their-- their life is full.

Time: 5513.4

But you feel empty.

Time: 5515.5

And that's not a relationship to me.

Time: 5518.11

So for me, it's important that you

Time: 5520.922

know exactly who I am because this is what life made.

Time: 5525.13

And I'm not trying to change it because I just figured it out.

Time: 5530.13

So I'm not trying to compromise David Goggins.

Time: 5533.87

I would never, ever compromise David Goggins.

Time: 5537.6

That doesn't mean I won't give you what you need

Time: 5539.6

and what you want and what you desire.

Time: 5542.31

But I don't need money.

Time: 5543.71

I don't need fame.

Time: 5544.76

I don't need shit.

Time: 5545.99

So I give it all away.

Time: 5548.62

What I do need is to make sure that that willpower is worked

Time: 5553.2

on every fucking day and every night for the rest of my life

Time: 5556.8

because that's the one thing that's

Time: 5558.345

going to keep me feeding you, keeping you where you need

Time: 5561.99

to be, because once that willpower is gone,

Time: 5564.57

300-pound David Goggins, he may not look like it,

Time: 5567.79

but I will walk around with it.

Time: 5571.27

So the things that are important to you in life,

Time: 5573.36

you must do always.

Time: 5575.61

Or you're nobody.

Time: 5577.17

And that's how I handle relationships.

Time: 5580.25

ANDREW HUBERMAN: Amen to that.

Time: 5581.5

Something I could personally work on

Time: 5583.84

is that upfront, clear communication

Time: 5586.03

because it resonates that feeling of there's something

Time: 5589.24

inside that's not getting worked out that, when I'm on my own,

Time: 5593.08

it's a lot easier.

Time: 5594.7

But then, of course, wanting relationships and family,

Time: 5597.19

I think that's a healthy part of being human too.

Time: 5599.33

And obviously, you've worked it out.

Time: 5600.83

So I appreciate you sharing that.

Time: 5602.44

I don't think I've ever heard you

Time: 5603.815

talk about it that way before.

Time: 5605.23

DAVID GOGGINS: People are scared of that conversation

Time: 5607.438

with their wife, husband, girlfriend, boyfriend.

Time: 5610.99

But why are you scared of it?

Time: 5613.202

Why are you scared to tell a motherfucker, your wife,

Time: 5616.49

your husband, who you are, who you are, exactly who you are?

Time: 5622.27

And that was the problem I had-- that's a problem

Time: 5624.43

that a lot of us have in life.

Time: 5626.2

No one knows who you really are.

Time: 5629.515

No one knew who I really was.

Time: 5632.54

I went to a school where there were a lot of Black kids.

Time: 5635.29

A lot of Black kids didn't want to be in special ops.

Time: 5638.3

I never talked about special ops to Black kids.

Time: 5641.84

Why?

Time: 5643.01

I was wondering what--

Time: 5644.78

I'm not going to fit in.

Time: 5647.13

That's not what they do.

Time: 5648.412

A lot of Black kids don't do that kind of shit.

Time: 5650.37

So whatever I wanted to do, no one really

Time: 5653.22

knew the real me growing up because I never wanted anybody

Time: 5656.49

to know the real me.

Time: 5657.99

I was always afraid of what you might say

Time: 5659.79

or how you're going to feel or whatever.

Time: 5661.77

You got feelings.

Time: 5664.27

You have a life that you have to live.

Time: 5666.75

So it's important that whatever's on your mind,

Time: 5669.72

you let that person know.

Time: 5670.89

Therefore, you're giving them the option

Time: 5672.557

to be with you or not.

Time: 5674.66

This is who I am.

Time: 5676.005

If you don't like it, that's good, man.

Time: 5677.63

I got it.

Time: 5678.59

But this is David Goggins.

Time: 5680.75

So that honest conversation is very important, man,

Time: 5683.39

so everybody knows where they stand.

Time: 5685.94

That person may not be for you.

Time: 5688.1

And that's all good.

Time: 5689.155

ANDREW HUBERMAN: This world could

Time: 5690.53

use a lot more of that upfront, completely honest conversation.

Time: 5693.89

I feel like so much of the world's problems

Time: 5696.68

are because everyone's dancing around these issues.

Time: 5699.29

DAVID GOGGINS: It takes a lot.

Time: 5699.92

ANDREW HUBERMAN: Recently in the news,

Time: 5700.82

seeing people losing their job because they

Time: 5702.2

won't say something publicly.

Time: 5703.34

You can tell they kind of what it.

Time: 5704.757

It's like, people just, I think, deep down really

Time: 5707.75

crave the direct message.

Time: 5708.958

Like, what are you about?

Time: 5710

What are you not about?

Time: 5710.958

But I think now, everyone's afraid of getting canceled.

Time: 5714.44

It's a big deal, getting canceled, that people think,

Time: 5717.36

oh, I can't work if I am who I am.

Time: 5719.3

Or if I'm not pretending to be somebody else,

Time: 5723.86

then silence is considered agreement.

Time: 5728.39

There's all sorts of complicated stuff.

Time: 5730.88

And I do feel for the generation coming up

Time: 5733.4

because we didn't have social media and all of that.

Time: 5736.675

Again, just walled off from that.

Time: 5738.05

There's a real benefit from just not paying attention.

Time: 5740.99

DAVID GOGGINS: People love to lie.

Time: 5742.55

People love to lie.

Time: 5743.69

You know, I thought I was only a person--

Time: 5745.64

when I was growing up, I thought I

Time: 5747.057

was the only person that lied because I lived in a bubble.

Time: 5749.92

And people love to lie about who they're not.

Time: 5753.16

They love to lie about who they're not, dude.

Time: 5755.71

And that's, for me, the reason why I'm so vulnerable,

Time: 5760.84

and I'm so real and honest.

Time: 5764.91

Find somebody to come out and tell me

Time: 5766.5

I'm lying about my fucking life.

Time: 5768.03

And for me to come where I came from

Time: 5770.55

and have the resume I have now, you

Time: 5772.67

know the confidence you get?

Time: 5774.75

How I don't care who-- you're going to-- you're

Time: 5777.155

going to judge me?

Time: 5778.168

You're going to judge me?

Time: 5779.21

What have you done in your life?

Time: 5780.57

So me, being so honest and so upfront and so truthful,

Time: 5785.54

that came with me finally figuring out who I was,

Time: 5790.65

but also conquering David Goggins, the demons of David

Time: 5794.73

Goggins.

Time: 5795.39

Therefore, now, you're just an open book.

Time: 5797.468

You look at somebody, look them right in the eye.

Time: 5799.51

Tell me exactly who the fuck you are.

Time: 5801.052

You walk away.

Time: 5802.27

I'm good, bro, because I know exactly what this journey took

Time: 5805.69

to get here.

Time: 5806.41

And that gives you a fire and a passion that people

Time: 5809.65

can call you nigger, they can call you--

Time: 5811.42

if you're a lesbian or gay or bise-- call me

Time: 5814.015

whatever the fuck you want.

Time: 5815.23

If you put yourself in the fire and you come out

Time: 5819.01

every fucking day like this, brush it off, not scared

Time: 5821.71

to go back in there again, come on, man.

Time: 5824.47

Your truth is real.

Time: 5826.15

You come out every day, man, with a way

Time: 5828.55

of talking to people that people don't have because there's

Time: 5831.46

no truth behind them.

Time: 5833.18

And the truth is the starting line.

Time: 5834.79

When you sit down the ugly mirror and say, I'm this,

Time: 5836.957

I'm this, I'm this and this, you finally started your life.

Time: 5839.95

Maybe 40 years old.

Time: 5842.3

Maybe 40 years old, five, six kids, wife.

Time: 5845.03

But the second you look in that mirror and you say, I'm this,

Time: 5848.81

I'm this, I'm this, I'm this, I'm this, well, basically,

Time: 5851.84

I'm not this, I'm not this, I'm not this, I can't do this,

Time: 5854.46

I can't do this, I'm all these insecurities,

Time: 5857.51

your life finally started.

Time: 5859.28

And once you start that life, man, the truth

Time: 5861.35

comes out big time because you no longer care.

Time: 5863.883

So that's the problem.

Time: 5864.8

Most people just don't want to have that conversation

Time: 5867.4

to the point where they can go on stage and a million people

Time: 5869.9

and say, I'm all of this.

Time: 5874.15

And have a good day.

Time: 5876.34

See you.

Time: 5877.92

It's empowering.

Time: 5879.57

It's very empowering.

Time: 5880.77

ANDREW HUBERMAN: I feel like the way we're educated in school,

Time: 5884.07

but also outside of school, is we're trained, as human being,

Time: 5887.13

as these young brains, to try and figure out

Time: 5889.14

how to get positive feedback from other people.

Time: 5891.42

It's like we're little dogs.

Time: 5894.45

You have a bulldog.

Time: 5895.45

DAVID GOGGINS: That's right.

Time: 5895.77

ANDREW HUBERMAN: I had a bulldog.

Time: 5897.145

Saw the picture of your bulldog.

Time: 5898.68

She's great.

Time: 5899.52

DAVID GOGGINS: Charlie dog.

Time: 5900.24

ANDREW HUBERMAN: They're an amazing species.

Time: 5901.59

DAVID GOGGINS: They are.

Time: 5902.59

ANDREW HUBERMAN: I think of them economy of effort

Time: 5905.22

or amazing breed, excuse me.

Time: 5906.518

They're an amazing breed.

Time: 5907.56

Economy of effort.

Time: 5908.46

They don't do anything unless it's necessary.

Time: 5911.19

It's the exact opposite of everything we're talking about.

Time: 5913.808

It's kind of interesting.

Time: 5914.85

And they're kind of hedonists.

Time: 5916.44

Now, it is true that they'll die to protect you.

Time: 5919.34

DAVID GOGGINS: Oh, yeah.

Time: 5920.34

ANDREW HUBERMAN: And it's an instinct.

Time: 5921.57

I saw that with Costello.

Time: 5922.59

I'm sure that--

Time: 5923.16

DAVID GOGGINS: I saw it with Charlie.

Time: 5923.85

Yeah.

Time: 5924.22

ANDREW HUBERMAN: It's an instinct.

Time: 5925.637

But if they're not in that position,

Time: 5928.53

if there's no need to exert effort--

Time: 5930.39

DAVID GOGGINS: They're resting.

Time: 5930.99

ANDREW HUBERMAN: Yeah.

Time: 5931.907

So your bulldog's resting for you.

Time: 5933.408

DAVID GOGGINS: Yes.

Time: 5934.2

Got it.

Time: 5934.68

ANDREW HUBERMAN: Exactly.

Time: 5935.28

So you don't need to rest because--

Time: 5936.87

DAVID GOGGINS: Active recovery Charlie.

Time: 5938.35

ANDREW HUBERMAN: Perfect.

Time: 5938.89

DAVID GOGGINS: That's it.

Time: 5939.25

ANDREW HUBERMAN: Perfect.

Time: 5939.79

That's going to be your answer from now on.

Time: 5941.42

People go, does he sleep?

Time: 5942.19

Does he rest?

Time: 5942.62

Go, no.

Time: 5942.97

He somehow worked it out so his bulldog does it for him.

Time: 5945.303

DAVID GOGGINS: Right.

Time: 5946.973

ANDREW HUBERMAN: But we're sort of

Time: 5948.39

indoctrinated into this way of being

Time: 5950.61

from a time that we're young, where, of course,

Time: 5953.73

praise feels good.

Time: 5955.08

Someone tells you, hey, I like that shirt, or good job today,

Time: 5959.13

or nicely done.

Time: 5960.06

Or for me, because growing up in a big pack of friends growing

Time: 5964.32

up, and I was never the greatest athlete, wasn't terrible,

Time: 5967.17

wasn't great, et cetera, like, a fist bump, or, like, feeling

Time: 5970.14

crewed up.

Time: 5970.92

And you're just like, yeah.

Time: 5972.39

But you've talked about this before in reference

Time: 5974.91

to the SEAL Teams.

Time: 5976.05

We both know a lot of people in that community.

Time: 5978.008

And the Teams component is a big part of it for a lot of people.

Time: 5980.88

And it's a wonderful thing.

Time: 5983.13

But there's a danger to that dopamine hit,

Time: 5987.85

for lack of a better way to put it,

Time: 5989.44

from we can only derive when it's coming from the outside.

Time: 5995.05

You're talking about being able to either say, good job,

Time: 5999.19

but also, just look to one's own personal history and say,

Time: 6003.945

I've done hard things.

Time: 6005.04

And I can do it again and again because I do it again and again

Time: 6008.16

and again.

Time: 6008.67

You're talking about parenting yourself, inspiring yourself,

Time: 6015.35

scaring yourself, all of that from the inside.

Time: 6018.8

So very different than the way we're

Time: 6021.02

raised, which is to figure out how to get the biscuit.

Time: 6023.538

DAVID GOGGINS: It's funny, man.

Time: 6024.83

People want to know how I'm always motivated.

Time: 6029.17

It's the unseen work, which you just said is a true statement.

Time: 6032.14

Those are false dopamine hits that people

Time: 6034.87

are giving you, man.

Time: 6036.58

There's no belief in that.

Time: 6038.29

These are teamwork dopamine-- like, I'm out

Time: 6041.717

running at 2 o'clock in the morning, 1

Time: 6043.3

o'clock in the morning in the gym, long sessions by myself.

Time: 6048.88

That's real.

Time: 6050.62

I'm able to extract dopamine, the good dopamine whenever

Time: 6054.22

I want.

Time: 6055.09

Man, I've trained 99% of my life alone.

Time: 6061.18

No one patted me on the back.

Time: 6063.08

I did all of the work alone.

Time: 6067.08

And while I'm still hard on myself, I know what I did.

Time: 6071.85

So whenever times get bad for me,

Time: 6073.47

people are all this, who's going to carry the boats and lo--

Time: 6076.425

that's real.

Time: 6077.64

I hate that people know me for that guy

Time: 6080.34

because that guy is not every fucking day.

Time: 6083.55

When they see me, they want that energy.

Time: 6086.09

That's not me every day.

Time: 6087.95

I can extract it immediately when I need to

Time: 6090.23

because when you train alone--

Time: 6092.51

and I lived alone for so many years in this misery.

Time: 6095.72

And you're able to get out by yourself.

Time: 6098.12

I can take myself to such a level of real passion

Time: 6102.92

and purpose.

Time: 6103.7

And the feeling I get is something

Time: 6106.99

I can't even explain by mys--

Time: 6108.65

I don't need anyone.

Time: 6110.74

That's why people come to me to motivate them.

Time: 6112.78

No one can motivate me.

Time: 6115.52

I have a resume full of fucking motivation

Time: 6118.66

that whenever I'm down, I'm like, oh hang on, motherfucker.

Time: 6122.05

Oh, you know the truth.

Time: 6124.84

You know the truth.

Time: 6125.77

You know the darkness of the fucking dungeons

Time: 6127.96

and the fucking demons that fly.

Time: 6129.82

And then from there, it's like, OK.

Time: 6132.31

You were there.

Time: 6133.27

You know this.

Time: 6134.02

There was no one there to pick up

Time: 6135.91

the rucksack, to pick up the boat, to pick up

Time: 6137.86

the log, to go in there.

Time: 6139.03

It was you.

Time: 6140.176

It was you.

Time: 6140.8

There was no pat on the fucking back at 300, at 275, at 250,

Time: 6145.18

at 220.

Time: 6145.78

No.

Time: 6146.59

That was you.

Time: 6148.14

So those things that come out of me,

Time: 6150.34

that extract from me in the darkness, people

Time: 6153.298

are looking for that pat on the back.

Time: 6154.84

Where is it?

Time: 6155.74

Oh, I don't need it because what I've done

Time: 6160.21

is in the fucking unseen work.

Time: 6164.49

I built Frankenstein.

Time: 6167.12

So whenever shit gets nasty, David Goggins

Time: 6170.48

goes, you had nobody anyway, motherfucker.

Time: 6173.478

So see how I'm talking to myself right now?

Time: 6175.27

That's me.

Time: 6177.06

That's shit fires me the fuck up.

Time: 6179.1

That shit makes me fucking nuts.

Time: 6180.99

You had nobody anyway, motherfucker.

Time: 6183.12

Look around you.

Time: 6184.41

There was no fucking team.

Time: 6186.15

It was you.

Time: 6187.49

There was no weight loss program or mom and dad waking you up,

Time: 6191.34

saying you can do it, you can be better, trying to build belief.

Time: 6194.64

You built belief when you had nothing.

Time: 6197.79

Rock bottom.

Time: 6200.04

You did that.

Time: 6200.91

So as times get hard for me, the truth comes out.

Time: 6206.82

And my truth is powerful as fuck.

Time: 6209.73

It's real.

Time: 6211.15

It's tangible.

Time: 6212.82

I feel it.

Time: 6213.72

It comes out of my brain as I speak about it.

Time: 6216.24

I'm reliving every single dark moment of my life to be here.

Time: 6223.79

So that is what people don't get.

Time: 6226.72

That is what motivates David Goggins is the unseen work.

Time: 6230.26

But everybody needs that pat on the back.

Time: 6233.2

They need that training partner.

Time: 6234.79

They need that accountability coach.

Time: 6237.565

I don't need that shit.

Time: 6238.6

And neither do they.

Time: 6240.07

But it's what we've trained ourselves

Time: 6242.35

to believe that we need.

Time: 6243.35

ANDREW HUBERMAN: It's almost like there's

Time: 6245.058

this pill on the shelf.

Time: 6246.43

I'm speaking in analogy.

Time: 6248.56

And we take it, and we get jazzed up.

Time: 6251.83

And we're like, yeah.

Time: 6253.24

But there's this other medicine cabinet behind there.

Time: 6256.09

And it's in us.

Time: 6256.96

You're saying the real medicine cabinet is inside.

Time: 6259.062

DAVID GOGGINS: Oh, yes.

Time: 6260.02

When you continue to overcome--

Time: 6263.01

and I had so many obstacles to overcome.

Time: 6265.74

So it's actually a benefit to me.

Time: 6267.35

But the benefit, it's not like a benefit like that.

Time: 6269.75

You have to have the courage and the patience

Time: 6272.81

to overcome and overcome.

Time: 6274.52

Before you know it, man, you have a whole medicine cabinet.

Time: 6278.2

But there's no medicine in the motherfucker.

Time: 6280.38

There's no pre-workout.

Time: 6282.3

I don't take none of that shit.

Time: 6284.52

All I got to do is flip my brain.

Time: 6288.9

Put my finger in there and say, OK, that's a good one.

Time: 6291.54

It's all I got to do, man.

Time: 6292.8

I got the Rolodex.

Time: 6293.82

I'm just like, go fuck yourself, Goggins.

Time: 6295.65

And oh, but you won.

Time: 6298.35

Let's do that one today.

Time: 6299.67

There's nothing I need.

Time: 6302.2

And this is the thing that people

Time: 6303.78

don't get about David Goggins.

Time: 6305.73

I can't teach it in a 1-minute video.

Time: 6310.35

We all have this ability to have our own medicine cabinet.

Time: 6315.42

But unless you go in there and put the medicine in there,

Time: 6321.708

it's always going to be fucking empty, man.

Time: 6323.5

You're always going to need the pre-workout.

Time: 6325.33

You're always going to need the--

Time: 6326.14

I don't drink coffee.

Time: 6327.4

I don't do ca--

Time: 6328.03

I don't do none of that.

Time: 6328.9

I don't need it.

Time: 6329.567

I can run for 70 hours, and I have before, no caffeine.

Time: 6335.93

I got all this wonderful shit that I overcame on my own,

Time: 6340.66

by myself, in the darkness, that, man, when it's cold,

Time: 6344.35

I'm hot.

Time: 6346.75

When it's hot--

Time: 6348.415

I can feed myself all the time.

Time: 6352

That's why when people say, man, why aren't you

Time: 6354.04

missing anything, I can't explain it to you, man.

Time: 6358.88

Can't explain it to you.

Time: 6359.88

You'll never understand.

Time: 6361.48

That's why I don't do all these podcasts, dude.

Time: 6364.74

I love you, man.

Time: 6365.94

That's why you-- my first book, you did a blurb for me.

Time: 6369.9

That's why I'm here.

Time: 6370.862

I love what you're doing for people, man.

Time: 6372.57

But I can't explain this.

Time: 6375.09

I can't.

Time: 6375.96

I can't explain this because people don't want to do this.

Time: 6378.587

They don't want to do this, man.

Time: 6379.92

But I don't know, man.

Time: 6382.29

I get jazzed up even talking about it,

Time: 6383.94

man, because so many people think my life is just so, oh

Time: 6387.63

god, his life is horrible.

Time: 6389.4

Don't follow him.

Time: 6390.24

He's crazy.

Time: 6390.9

Really?

Time: 6391.828

ANDREW HUBERMAN: But there are a good number of people,

Time: 6394.12

I would say, and that's an under-- that actually do.

Time: 6396.43

I think what I'm hearing today, and it's really sinking in, is

Time: 6400.24

that a great many people either partially or completely

Time: 6403.87

misunderstand you.

Time: 6405.1

DAVID GOGGINS: Yes.

Time: 6406.212

ANDREW HUBERMAN: I'll put myself in the partially category.

Time: 6408.67

DAVID GOGGINS: Big time.

Time: 6409.03

ANDREW HUBERMAN: Because I thought

Time: 6410.447

it was about just forward center of mass, carrot, carrot,

Time: 6415.66

carrot, carrot.

Time: 6417.47

But it's the stick.

Time: 6418.71

DAVID GOGGINS: It's the stick.

Time: 6419.12

ANDREW HUBERMAN: And it's being haunted.

Time: 6420.11

And you know, I do have examples from my own life, which is not

Time: 6423.32

what today is about, about being really afraid

Time: 6426.23

and then turning things around.

Time: 6428.18

My biggest fear is getting comfortable.

Time: 6430.91

I do not have as much of a stick-oriented approach.

Time: 6434.84

But today's conversation's changing the way I think.

Time: 6438.23

I'm not going to step away from this

Time: 6439.73

and think, OK, there are 25 neural circuits that

Time: 6442.1

can explain 10 of the things that David's talking about.

Time: 6444.71

And what I'm thinking about is the fact

Time: 6447.05

that everybody has a brain.

Time: 6448.34

They have a mind.

Time: 6450.2

Forget the brain.

Time: 6451.11

The brain's just the physical structure.

Time: 6452.777

But what that manifests, what that creates is the mind.

Time: 6457.63

And everybody has that.

Time: 6459.56

So I do believe that everyone has the capacity

Time: 6462.07

to do what you're talking about at some level.

Time: 6466.53

I also will be the first to confess

Time: 6469.16

that I think you are highly unusual.

Time: 6471.92

Let's just say maybe even n of 1, as we say in science.

Time: 6476.51

Sample size of one.

Time: 6479.52

Somebody who has created this process for themselves

Time: 6481.86

and keeps them in this-- themselves

Time: 6483.72

in this forward center of mass with the stick

Time: 6486.03

battering the back of their head all the time.

Time: 6489.92

Highly unusual.

Time: 6492.48

But this internal medicine cabinet

Time: 6494.27

that you're talking about building up,

Time: 6495.853

true confidence, not needing anything from the outside,

Time: 6498.8

I like to think that people want that.

Time: 6503.03

They want to be known.

Time: 6504.95

They're afraid.

Time: 6506.75

But that they want to be known for who they really are

Time: 6509.24

and that you're describing the path to do this.

Time: 6511.82

And I will say I'm immensely grateful that you're

Time: 6514.22

talking to us this way today about things

Time: 6516.367

that you've talked about before.

Time: 6517.7

But we're hitting it a little differently, I like to think.

Time: 6520.04

DAVID GOGGINS: Very differently.

Time: 6521.373

ANDREW HUBERMAN: Because what you're talking about

Time: 6525.25

is a process.

Time: 6526.03

It's verbs.

Time: 6526.78

It's all verbs.

Time: 6527.92

DAVID GOGGINS: All action.

Time: 6529.12

ANDREW HUBERMAN: And it's not about success.

Time: 6531.67

It's more, actually, about keeping

Time: 6534.16

that friction dialed to 10.

Time: 6537.16

And no energy drink, no supplement.

Time: 6539.54

People often misunderstand me.

Time: 6540.79

They think-- like, I'm big on people getting sunlight

Time: 6543.19

in the morning so they set their circadian rhythm

Time: 6544.78

and get better sleep and so they can-- et cetera.

Time: 6546.71

But then people always think-- they go straight

Time: 6548.668

to the supplements.

Time: 6549.55

What should I take?

Time: 6550.51

And then, of course, people think

Time: 6551.47

I'm all about supplements.

Time: 6552.37

And supplements are one piece for me.

Time: 6554.02

But it's like tiny fraction compared to the doing,

Time: 6557.98

the do's and don'ts.

Time: 6558.94

DAVID GOGGINS: That's why I didn't

Time: 6559.36

want to talk about that today.

Time: 6560.65

That's why I'm glad we're talking about this.

Time: 6562.525

This is it.

Time: 6563.5

This is it.

Time: 6564.22

Like, the brain is the most powerful weapon in the world.

Time: 6567.86

And it's crazy how a kid that wasn't real smart,

Time: 6573.88

I was forced to go only internal.

Time: 6577.81

External had to go away.

Time: 6579.43

The external world had to go away.

Time: 6581.32

In living so deep inside myself, it was me in this brain

Time: 6586.39

and figuring out how this thing works.

Time: 6588.91

And so many people are doing exactly that, the supplements,

Time: 6594.415

the this, the that.

Time: 6595.45

And I agree, it helps.

Time: 6598.24

But once you figure out your brain,

Time: 6603.25

you become unstoppable to almost anything.

Time: 6607.6

Yeah, you can't beat death.

Time: 6609.22

You can't whatever, whatever.

Time: 6610.84

Your brain is amazing.

Time: 6612.34

Once you feed it the right conversation, the right mental

Time: 6617.68

nutrients, the right mental supplements,

Time: 6621.6

the right internal dialogue at the right time

Time: 6625.69

with the right hit, with the right proof of what you've

Time: 6629.41

done in the past, and you send that right

Time: 6632.11

to the right circuit, dude, you're a fucking beast.

Time: 6636.26

A beast.

Time: 6637.54

But once again, you just can't read about it.

Time: 6643.32

You can't sit back and be a theorist.

Time: 6646.11

You have to be a fucking practitioner.

Time: 6649.05

And in that practice is where that becomes proof-positive

Time: 6653.255

of what I'm saying.

Time: 6654.6

It's like, god, David Goggins is blowing my mind.

Time: 6658.29

What is this?

Time: 6659.34

He's not crazy.

Time: 6660.81

And so many people, a lot of people,

Time: 6669.1

have listened to me the right way.

Time: 6670.63

And they come back, and they're like, I'm totally on board.

Time: 6674.79

It happened.

Time: 6676.05

It happened.

Time: 6676.77

I'm like, it'll keep going, man, if you keep doing it.

Time: 6680.37

But that is it, man.

Time: 6681.75

There's no sun.

Time: 6684.04

There's no glory.

Time: 6685.3

There's no carrot.

Time: 6687.18

There's no victory.

Time: 6689.07

But there is all of it in one.

Time: 6690.898

I just can't explain it real well to people, man.

Time: 6692.94

But what you get the other end is something

Time: 6696.03

that you're always found.

Time: 6699.3

You're never lost anymore.

Time: 6701.28

Doesn't mean the journey is easy.

Time: 6703.78

Doesn't get any easier.

Time: 6704.87

But you're always found.

Time: 6706.542

ANDREW HUBERMAN: I love that.

Time: 6707.75

I just want to hover on that for a sec

Time: 6709.49

the same way we hovered on haunted and the stick.

Time: 6713.34

I think people feel lost.

Time: 6715.17

I've certainly felt lost at times in my life, many times.

Time: 6719.94

And yeah, there's that thing.

Time: 6721.943

I don't think there's a neuroscience or a psychology

Time: 6724.11

term for it.

Time: 6724.71

Someone will put it in the comments and say, oh yeah,

Time: 6726.93

that's what so-and-so said.

Time: 6728.07

But like you said, we're not trying to be theoretical here.

Time: 6730.32

We're trying to be practical.

Time: 6731.528

The business of finding yourself and knowing, oh.

Time: 6736.66

But it's sort of like I'm safe because I'm in danger,

Time: 6740.32

and I've been in danger before, and I got myself out.

Time: 6743.17

It always seems to come back to verbs.

Time: 6745.3

Again, I don't have a language for this.

Time: 6747.52

For once, I'm lost for words.

Time: 6749.56

There's like-- it's about a process, the algorithm.

Time: 6753.13

And the reason-- here, I'm just kind of trying to make sure

Time: 6756.892

I'm understanding things correctly.

Time: 6758.35

One of the reasons why it must be uncomfortable

Time: 6760.308

for you to be who you are publicly

Time: 6762.85

is because people want to focus on the running or the swearing.

Time: 6766.36

And by the way, the swearing is welcome.

Time: 6769.09

I'll tell you, I came up through laboratories

Time: 6771.73

where all three people I worked for swore a lot.

Time: 6776.93

But there was one rule.

Time: 6778.28

I couldn't swear at people.

Time: 6779.97

So my graduate advisor, brilliant woman,

Time: 6782.48

unfortunately, she died early, they all died early--

Time: 6785.905

I'm the common denominator.

Time: 6787.03

I had that internalized for a long time.

Time: 6788.95

Anyway, she said, but if you swear at people, you're out.

Time: 6792.28

But you can swear as much as you want.

Time: 6793.9

So that's the rule I have.

Time: 6795.7

It's like, you can swear as much as you want.

Time: 6796.84

Just don't swear at people.

Time: 6797.77

And if you swear at people, better be ready to fight.

Time: 6800.05

Definitely not going to fight you.

Time: 6801.2

So you can swear at me, get away with it.

Time: 6802.908

But the fact of the matter is that it must

Time: 6805.24

be frustrating that people--

Time: 6807.91

because I know people go, oh, it's

Time: 6809.71

all about supplements and ice baths.

Time: 6811.21

Listen, I like supplements.

Time: 6812.17

I love supplements and ice baths.

Time: 6813.46

But that's not the full picture.

Time: 6814.81

It's just a gravitational pull.

Time: 6816.4

It's the swearing.

Time: 6817.3

It's the running.

Time: 6818.35

It's his feet that are all messed up.

Time: 6820.45

It's the fact that he got a Triton.

Time: 6822.97

He's a SEAL guy.

Time: 6824.62

Talk about that too.

Time: 6826.9

And there's a gravitational pull for people.

Time: 6829.99

And they're missing-- that's the tip of the iceberg,

Time: 6833.063

is what I'm realizing.

Time: 6833.98

I'm realizing that today thanks to the way

Time: 6836.2

you're phrasing things because the bigger vessel

Time: 6838.57

is all in here.

Time: 6839.71

And as you said, how do you put that in a book?

Time: 6841.778

DAVID GOGGINS: It's impossible.

Time: 6843.07

ANDREW HUBERMAN: Because it's highly individual.

Time: 6844.48

You do it your way.

Time: 6845.84

And you're saying, everyone needs

Time: 6847.28

to go figure out how to do it their way for them.

Time: 6849.818

DAVID GOGGINS: Yes.

Time: 6850.61

And the thing about being misunderstood,

Time: 6853.1

it's very frustrating, more than I can even imagine.

Time: 6857.03

I can't even express how frustrating

Time: 6859.37

it is when the cussing and everything comes

Time: 6864.58

from a place of real.

Time: 6867.26

I can't explain what I do without it.

Time: 6871.21

The passion comes out of me.

Time: 6872.57

It's almost like speaking in tongues because when you put

Time: 6875.92

that much work-- and people go, oh yeah,

Time: 6877.9

there's been this basketball player, this football player,

Time: 6880.36

this--

Time: 6882.87

dude.

Time: 6884.3

No.

Time: 6885.41

No.

Time: 6886.55

Everything, everything is work.

Time: 6891.05

Everything.

Time: 6891.89

And people don't believe it.

Time: 6893.63

So when I speak, the motherfucker and the fuck

Time: 6899.52

and the shit, that is what it took for me,

Time: 6905.73

what it takes for me, the anger, the passion, the jaw-dropping--

Time: 6915.01

just it takes that because I'm not that.

Time: 6920.76

This is how I look at it, man.

Time: 6923.54

What built this guy?

Time: 6925.07

Let's imagine being in the coldest

Time: 6926.66

water you can possibly take.

Time: 6928.97

I always go back to Hell Week with this.

Time: 6930.77

I hated that water.

Time: 6932.78

Hated it.

Time: 6934.155

You're sitting there locked arms, and you're in the water

Time: 6936.53

all the time.

Time: 6937.4

And they're bringing you in and out of the water,

Time: 6939.56

in and out of the water.

Time: 6942.38

When you have this dialogue in your head,

Time: 6944.69

and these people are judging me off a freaking 1-minute video,

Time: 6949.4

and you're constantly your whole life,

Time: 6951.41

when you figured it out at 24, that I got to--

Time: 6954.53

I just got to, just fucking got to,

Time: 6957

and this is just going to suck.

Time: 6958.4

Every day it's going to suck.

Time: 6960.44

And live like that to be better.

Time: 6963.803

And I put it this way.

Time: 6964.72

I'm in the water.

Time: 6965.47

The water is going over my head, the Pacific Ocean.

Time: 6967.72

It's freezing.

Time: 6969.28

February.

Time: 6970.21

Cold as shit.

Time: 6971.195

Been through three Hell Weeks.

Time: 6975.06

For you to constantly win, win, win,

Time: 6979.6

when this voice over here, the real you,

Time: 6982.24

is saying get the fuck out of here, go, you're nobody.

Time: 6987.67

You've always been nobody.

Time: 6989.59

And it's true.

Time: 6991.87

People don't hear that.

Time: 6993.59

That's a true voice.

Time: 6994.55

That's a real reality of David Goggins at 24 years old.

Time: 6999.66

It's not a false reality.

Time: 7001.25

And then you had to create another voice over here that

Time: 7006.67

is saying, you're better than that other voice.

Time: 7008.72

And you're in the freezing cold water

Time: 7011.75

that both voices don't want to fucking be in.

Time: 7016.94

But you win.

Time: 7019.5

Then goes from the water to the studying

Time: 7022.23

to the running to the losing weight

Time: 7024.18

to how you eat to how you function as a man.

Time: 7026.73

Every day of your life, you're winning these battles.

Time: 7030.77

And then I have normal people who only have one voice.

Time: 7036.09

Never created the second voice.

Time: 7038.13

The winning voice is the second voice.

Time: 7039.9

They have one voice.

Time: 7042.16

And that's just, I'm a piece of shit.

Time: 7045.6

And that's all they hear.

Time: 7048.11

And then they judge people like me

Time: 7051.61

who are out here trying to be better.

Time: 7055.32

It's something that I can never really--

Time: 7059.3

it's a frustrating thing for me because I

Time: 7063.25

know the majority of people.

Time: 7065.862

I know what goes on in the brain because I studied the mind

Time: 7068.32

more than almost-- more than you because I'm a practitioner.

Time: 7073.47

So for you to be a piece of shit and come out of that,

Time: 7076.31

you don't just come out of it.

Time: 7078.59

You spend decades studying your mind and the human mind

Time: 7085.57

on how it functions in good environments, bad environments,

Time: 7089.53

stressful environments, patient environments.

Time: 7092.12

You study it all because you had to put all this

Time: 7094.12

together to create the mind to become successful.

Time: 7098.48

So I had to-- it wasn't like God blessed me with this brain.

Time: 7102.41

I had to create a mind.

Time: 7104.94

And so in doing so, I figured out

Time: 7106.37

every piece of shit human being in the world

Time: 7108.53

because that's what I was going off of for myself.

Time: 7112.63

So I know why you go on Instagram.

Time: 7114.71

I know why you-- because you just have the time.

Time: 7119.74

You have the time because you don't

Time: 7122.41

want to put that time into bettering oneself.

Time: 7126.57

So I know why I'm misunderstood.

Time: 7129.84

I'm misunderstood by people who have plenty of time

Time: 7133.17

on their hands to misunderstand me because they are exactly

Time: 7136.44

where I once was, which is a low-life, lazy piece of shit.

Time: 7141.495

And it's the harsh reality of people who troll you,

Time: 7144.75

who go after you.

Time: 7146.52

They have nothing better to do with their lives.

Time: 7149.4

It's not some after school special.

Time: 7151.59

It's the truth.

Time: 7152.67

But I once was that way.

Time: 7155.948

I know where it all comes from.

Time: 7157.24

That's why it's frustrating to me

Time: 7158.34

now because I'm not so frustrated at the fact

Time: 7160.47

that I'm being trolled.

Time: 7162.072

I'm frustrated by the fact that you

Time: 7163.53

don't have the courage, the courage

Time: 7166.46

to try to be somebody better than what you're not.

Time: 7169.67

And that's the frustrating part.

Time: 7171.865

ANDREW HUBERMAN: It's interesting

Time: 7173.24

because earlier, we were talking about relationships.

Time: 7176.42

And you said, in a very candid way,

Time: 7179.45

and I really appreciate you sharing that,

Time: 7181.25

that you make sure that the people close

Time: 7182.917

to you, your family, has everything they need

Time: 7184.97

and that they also understand that you're

Time: 7186.678

going to take what you need to continue to build you period.

Time: 7189.53

DAVID GOGGINS: Period.

Time: 7190.8

ANDREW HUBERMAN: In some ways, it

Time: 7193.41

seems you've also included the general public in that family.

Time: 7197.88

You're saying, listen, I'm going to give you what you need.

Time: 7201.45

I'm going to give you as much of myself as I can,

Time: 7203.51

except I'm going to stop right at the line

Time: 7206.3

that if I were to cross it is going

Time: 7208.94

to prevent me from continuing to build myself.

Time: 7211.61

And by the way, this relationship

Time: 7213.5

only exists because I don't cross that line.

Time: 7217.19

And I think as much as there are detractors out there

Time: 7221.24

or people that try--

Time: 7223.25

I mean, whatever they're doing is pretty feeble, in my mind.

Time: 7226.4

I mean, it's like cap gun fire, it that.

Time: 7229.85

DAVID GOGGINS: Very feeble.

Time: 7232.48

ANDREW HUBERMAN: So many of us, men and women, old and young,

Time: 7237.65

hear something and feel something in your message.

Time: 7241.8

Like, yeah, it seems kind of crazy.

Time: 7243.63

Gosh.

Time: 7244.65

Doesn't he ever just relax?

Time: 7246.15

What about his sleep?

Time: 7247.96

Look at his feet.

Time: 7248.865

He's going to-- he's going to injure himself.

Time: 7250.74

Listen, I'll be very direct.

Time: 7251.907

I got friends who were in the Teams who just go, what's he

Time: 7254.41

going to do when he can't run?

Time: 7255.66

And I know the answer is keep running.

Time: 7257.313

DAVID GOGGINS: That's right.

Time: 7258.48

ANDREW HUBERMAN: But it's more comfortable

Time: 7260.23

for people, even high achievers--

Time: 7262.382

DAVID GOGGINS: Especially high achievers.

Time: 7264.09

ANDREW HUBERMAN: --to believe that if you

Time: 7265.798

took one thing away, that it would all go away.

Time: 7267.79

It's absolutely clear that's not the case with you.

Time: 7270.04

I'm 100% convinced.

Time: 7272.19

I just know that because we're talking about this.

Time: 7274.35

DAVID GOGGINS: Do you know how many times

Time: 7274.86

I haven't been able to run?

Time: 7276.09

Two heart surgeries.

Time: 7277.5

Multiple knee surgeries.

Time: 7278.653

And after every knee surgery, they said,

Time: 7280.32

you're not going to run again.

Time: 7282.27

And I'm fine with that.

Time: 7284.55

There's no running up here, bro.

Time: 7286.79

None.

Time: 7287.51

This was what it was all about.

Time: 7289.44

That's what they lost.

Time: 7290.69

What if you can't run?

Time: 7291.77

Give a fuck.

Time: 7293.96

It was never about running.

Time: 7295.7

Why do you think I run?

Time: 7297.47

It's the worst thing.

Time: 7299.645

I hate doing it more than anything.

Time: 7303.54

Hence the willpower.

Time: 7304.373

ANDREW HUBERMAN: Right.

Time: 7305.332

Your anterior mid-cingulate cortex

Time: 7306.99

DAVID GOGGINS: Hence the willpower.

Time: 7307.695

ANDREW HUBERMAN: --would start to regress

Time: 7309.403

if you loved running.

Time: 7310.48

DAVID GOGGINS: Think about it.

Time: 7311.73

Every day, I wake up.

Time: 7313.39

I don't just run a mile, two miles.

Time: 7316.29

It's the one thing I hate the most to do.

Time: 7320.16

And I do it like I love it.

Time: 7323.04

250, 260, 300-mile runs at one time.

Time: 7328.08

No sleep.

Time: 7329.25

And every step, when I get to the-- think about this.

Time: 7331.78

I get to the fucking start line cussing at Jennifer.

Time: 7336.63

Why the fuck am I here?

Time: 7337.89

I hate this shit.

Time: 7341.15

After 70-some hours of running, every fucking

Time: 7344.39

question I ever had is answered.

Time: 7347.4

Every question I had is answered.

Time: 7349.17

I capped success.

Time: 7353.02

People go, what do you mean, you capped success?

Time: 7357.67

For me to be who I am--

Time: 7361.91

so when I go smokejump, I smoke jump three to four months out

Time: 7367.29

of the year, sometimes five.

Time: 7368.58

ANDREW HUBERMAN: Could you, just for those

Time: 7370.33

that aren't educated about-- just

Time: 7372.36

give us a brief description of what smokejumping entails.

Time: 7375.55

DAVID GOGGINS: So basically, you jump into fires.

Time: 7379.14

Not into them, but you jump by fires that people can't get to.

Time: 7382.862

ANDREW HUBERMAN: So out of planes and helicopters.

Time: 7384.945

DAVID GOGGINS: Right, out of planes.

Time: 7386.445

I parachute.

Time: 7387.16

It's all parachuting.

Time: 7388.5

So you parachute out of airplanes.

Time: 7390.09

And then you fight the fire, you and sometimes four other guys

Time: 7393.54

or maybe eight other guys, guys and gals.

Time: 7395.82

And you're putting this fire out.

Time: 7398.29

So I lose millions of dollars every summer to do this.

Time: 7403.63

It blows people's minds.

Time: 7404.68

Why the hell are you doing this?

Time: 7405.82

ANDREW HUBERMAN: And you're breathing soot.

Time: 7407.01

DAVID GOGGINS: I'm breathing soot.

Time: 7408.427

Knees are jacked up.

Time: 7409.288

Hitting the ground.

Time: 7410.08

Hurting.

Time: 7411.19

Whatever.

Time: 7412.632

Talking to normal people, they'll never get it,

Time: 7414.59

so I don't even explain it to them.

Time: 7417.18

But this is why-- this is why I call it capped success.

Time: 7420.23

I'm talking financial success.

Time: 7422.69

For me to continue having that willpower, the second I just

Time: 7428.93

become a speaking monkey and travel around

Time: 7432.29

and speaking gigs 12 months out of the year,

Time: 7434.63

put camps on, do this, put on lectures, get supplement lines

Time: 7439.22

and do this and write more books and shit,

Time: 7441.97

I've ruined the exact thing I worked on my entire life.

Time: 7448.69

And while I didn't know it until the day,

Time: 7450.63

but something always told me, this

Time: 7453.62

is a very, very, very perishable skill, this willpower

Time: 7457.94

that you have, because I do have a willpower that I have never

Time: 7460.97

seen in anybody in my life.

Time: 7462.47

It is a haunting force that just keeps me going.

Time: 7465.54

And I know that that is my strength.

Time: 7468.44

If you have that-- so that's worth every dime I've ever

Time: 7473.97

made in my life is the fact I can look a man in the eye

Time: 7477.81

finally and have a real conversation

Time: 7479.75

without going like this because I'm lying,

Time: 7482.21

or I'm a piece of shit.

Time: 7483.17

Or I know-- you know how a person--

Time: 7485.03

and so many people do this shit.

Time: 7487.1

They're talking to you on who they want to be.

Time: 7491.95

They're lying to you.

Time: 7494.29

And they walk away--

Time: 7495.22

I've done it so many times.

Time: 7496.345

You walk away like, god, man.

Time: 7497.62

If I could just tell them the truth.

Time: 7499.54

Why the hell can't I just tell him the truth?

Time: 7503.515

Know how good it feels for me now

Time: 7504.89

to look at you in your eye and every man

Time: 7508.22

I see because women won't get this.

Time: 7510.98

Women will not get this.

Time: 7513.08

Man to man, that man shit, when you

Time: 7515.9

look another man in the eye, and you

Time: 7517.7

know that everything you're fucking saying is real,

Time: 7519.86

and it comes from a real working place, something

Time: 7522.89

that you earned, it's the best feeling in the world.

Time: 7525.793

ANDREW HUBERMAN: You can say that actually happened.

Time: 7527.96

Like, I know with certainty what I'm saying actually happened.

Time: 7530.51

DAVID GOGGINS: Actually happened.

Time: 7531.885

Who I am and who I say I am, I am.

Time: 7534.95

No more lies.

Time: 7536.51

No more skirting the truth.

Time: 7538.29

No more bullshit.

Time: 7539.63

And that is worth every dime I've ever made in my life.

Time: 7543.75

And I swear to God on that.

Time: 7547.22

Every dime I've ever made in my life, building who I built,

Time: 7551.57

so I capped success because I know

Time: 7554.45

that if I ever go 12 months out of the year

Time: 7558.38

and don't put several-- every day, I'm going at it.

Time: 7561.14

But several months out of the year,

Time: 7563.01

I go right back to ground zero, which means

Time: 7566.85

I'm just fucking David Goggins.

Time: 7569.4

No Goggins.

Time: 7570.51

No carry boats, fucking logs bullshit.

Time: 7573.48

It's just pick up that fucking Pulaski and dig.

Time: 7577.96

Hey, get that fucking pump.

Time: 7580

Walk down a mile.

Time: 7581.71

Put it in the fucking water.

Time: 7582.94

Mosquitoes beating-- you're just David Goggins.

Time: 7585.64

You're nobody because that's where my growth is.

Time: 7588.64

That's where my willpower comes from.

Time: 7591.13

And that's where it stays.

Time: 7592.54

That's why when I talk to you now-- and can't nobody

Time: 7595.03

talk like this, dude.

Time: 7596.26

People don't talk with this kind of passion

Time: 7598.052

because it ain't there.

Time: 7599.071

It ain't there.

Time: 7600.41

They're regurgitating some shit from 30 fucking years ago.

Time: 7604.21

I'm regurgitating shit from an hour ago.

Time: 7607.62

Hour ago.

Time: 7609.24

Come on, man.

Time: 7609.84

It's just be real.

Time: 7613.16

And I can't be on these podcasts.

Time: 7615.25

I can't talk to anybody without being real.

Time: 7617.8

I'll go away.

Time: 7619.19

I'll just go away because I can't give you

Time: 7622.06

what I want to give you.

Time: 7625.38

ANDREW HUBERMAN: You said perishable skill.

Time: 7627.18

I think that's another set of words

Time: 7629.2

I want to highlight because skill implies behavior.

Time: 7632.65

And when we were just talking a second ago

Time: 7634.71

about the deep, true bedrock sense of confidence that

Time: 7639.6

comes from looking someone in the eye

Time: 7641.16

and telling somebody something that you absolutely

Time: 7643.56

know it's true because it happened,

Time: 7645.78

you're talking about actions.

Time: 7647.26

Not talking about perceptions.

Time: 7649.14

You're not talking about what you believe happened.

Time: 7652.02

You know it happened.

Time: 7653.693

And there's something really concrete about actions.

Time: 7655.86

I mean, that's what's so interesting is

Time: 7657.66

we're talking about the mind.

Time: 7658.93

But actions are the manifestation of the mind.

Time: 7662.73

And the stuff that just stays in here, people die with that.

Time: 7667.23

It doesn't go anywhere.

Time: 7669.12

Long ago, somebody said--

Time: 7671.22

I forget what the context was.

Time: 7672.62

It was a neuroscientist.

Time: 7673.62

He said, most emotions, they're just emotions.

Time: 7677.62

They're just in there.

Time: 7678.82

You don't have to do anything with them.

Time: 7680.51

And I think certain emotions you want to do something with.

Time: 7683.05

But I think people forget this.

Time: 7684.35

They feel miserable, like they're

Time: 7685.36

going to dissolve into a puddle of their own tears.

Time: 7687.485

No one ever died from an emotion.

Time: 7689.53

But they feel-- they overwhelm us as if it's a tidal wave.

Time: 7693.26

It's going to pull us under and drown us.

Time: 7695.11

It's so interesting to me because I think what people--

Time: 7698.56

listen, you have a gravitational pull.

Time: 7700.36

People can feel the energy.

Time: 7702.56

I think, yes, you're either completely badly

Time: 7706.69

or partially understood.

Time: 7707.793

There's only one guy on the planet

Time: 7709.21

that truly understands you.

Time: 7710.63

I think there's one woman, Jennifer,

Time: 7712.13

who probably understands you as much as anyone's going to.

Time: 7714.595

And then the rest of us are kind of grasping,

Time: 7716.47

trying to figure it out.

Time: 7718.24

But you're saying, go inward.

Time: 7720.64

So first, go inward.

Time: 7723.76

And then it's actions.

Time: 7725.38

Inward and actions.

Time: 7726.513

Now, the inward piece is something

Time: 7727.93

I'd like to just spend a little bit of time on because there

Time: 7730.39

are a couple of characters from history, people that

Time: 7732.557

were in concentration camps.

Time: 7733.78

Nelson Mandela.

Time: 7735.01

I mean, I'm not sure he had Instagram in there.

Time: 7737.42

I'm pretty sure he didn't.

Time: 7738.8

And I don't think there was anyone coaching him on,

Time: 7741.03

hey, you're going to get out someday.

Time: 7742.7

And actually, you're going to lead an entire country.

Time: 7745.4

I'm pretty sure that's not how it worked.

Time: 7747.38

He had to find it here.

Time: 7748.76

He had to find it between his ears.

Time: 7750.83

And there are other examples.

Time: 7752.66

But that's an important one.

Time: 7754.98

So the process of going inward, does it, for you--

Time: 7759.53

and here, I will ask for suggestions

Time: 7761.33

because I think people want--

Time: 7762.65

there are those of us who want to build this skill.

Time: 7767.94

Wall yourself off.

Time: 7769.17

Phone off for big portions of the day, perhaps.

Time: 7774.92

Texting off.

Time: 7776.6

The requests, the this, the that.

Time: 7780.3

Anyone that knows you knows that-- we've

Time: 7782.503

communicated a few texts, but most of it

Time: 7784.17

comes through a filter.

Time: 7785.34

She's great.

Time: 7786.21

She knows you.

Time: 7787.92

And she knows how to protect your time.

Time: 7789.6

DAVID GOGGINS: And that hurts people's feelings.

Time: 7790.65

People get mad about that.

Time: 7791.55

ANDREW HUBERMAN: Hey, God bless--

Time: 7792.69

God bless you, Jennifer.

Time: 7798.111

Cutting oneself off, when you're in there,

Time: 7801.24

you say it's just you.

Time: 7805.984

And the voices that come up are not pleasant.

Time: 7810.23

And then at some point, it converts to action.

Time: 7814.96

OK.

Time: 7817.05

What is the process of picking the action?

Time: 7819.78

That's the piece that I feel like there's,

Time: 7821.67

like, a bridge to build here, if you can, if you would.

Time: 7825.39

DAVID GOGGINS: So the action being, like, what's next?

Time: 7827.64

ANDREW HUBERMAN: Yeah, so when you

Time: 7829.057

go to sleep at night, when that happens,

Time: 7832.193

you know what you're going to do the next day?

Time: 7834.11

It's pre-planned?

Time: 7834.95

DAVID GOGGINS: Yes.

Time: 7835.37

ANDREW HUBERMAN: OK.

Time: 7835.79

DAVID GOGGINS: Yes.

Time: 7836.66

It's always the same thing.

Time: 7837.83

ANDREW HUBERMAN: You're not building it on the fly.

Time: 7839.15

DAVID GOGGINS: No.

Time: 7839.9

Nothing's on the fly.

Time: 7841.55

So how it works internally for me is I'll

Time: 7845.57

put it exactly how it is.

Time: 7847.67

I'm an artist.

Time: 7849.87

And every day, I'm painting Mona Lisa.

Time: 7854.01

Every day.

Time: 7855.06

And but it's a different one.

Time: 7856.81

It's not the same painting.

Time: 7858.132

So every day I wake up, even though I'll do the same thing,

Time: 7860.59

it takes a different way to get there.

Time: 7862.583

So every day, in my mind, I'm going through my mind.

Time: 7864.75

I'm just like-- and a good painter will not just paint.

Time: 7871.49

He needs to create.

Time: 7872.99

And you can't create with phones and everything

Time: 7875.9

going around you.

Time: 7876.78

So you got to block yourself off.

Time: 7878.9

You only do two podcasts in a year.

Time: 7881.6

You block yourself off.

Time: 7882.89

And you're painting this thing inside.

Time: 7885.11

And you're going through all these different colors

Time: 7887.54

of paint and everything else.

Time: 7889.35

And you can only figure out the right painting

Time: 7892.22

if you spend the correct amount of time in your brain.

Time: 7895.02

So every single day, I'm literally

Time: 7897.17

going through my mind, and I'm painting.

Time: 7899.6

I'm creating this masterpiece.

Time: 7902.33

And the masterpiece is always myself.

Time: 7904.82

And but to do that, you cannot have any distractions

Time: 7908.885

because if you're talking to an artist and he's trying to think

Time: 7911.51

about the next painting, he can't.

Time: 7914.87

It's impossible to listen to you and listen

Time: 7917.51

to what your mind and body are telling you we must do.

Time: 7921.22

Because people don't do enough of.

Time: 7922.67

They don't do any of it.

Time: 7925.29

They don't have passion.

Time: 7926.41

They lack passion, drive, determination

Time: 7928.35

because you haven't spent time with yourself.

Time: 7931.32

Your mind will tell you what is next.

Time: 7934.52

But you haven't spent the time to go,

Time: 7938.3

all right, let me just figure this out.

Time: 7943.21

You're looking for let me Google this, and let me Google that,

Time: 7947.16

and let me-- you're not going to find it there

Time: 7949.23

because there's billions of people in this world.

Time: 7955.8

And they're all supposed to be individuals.

Time: 7959.895

But we have a pack mentality.

Time: 7962.88

That's why you're so fucking lost.

Time: 7964.9

Why am I so unique?

Time: 7968.2

I'm being exactly what the fuck I was supposed to be.

Time: 7970.6

I ain't follow shit.

Time: 7972.16

And when I did follow shit, I was like everybody else.

Time: 7975.83

The second I said, OK, man, hang on, dude, you don't like this,

Time: 7979.72

you don't like this, you don't like this, who are you,

Time: 7983.54

David Goggins?

Time: 7984.32

Who are you supposed to be?

Time: 7987.51

Miraculously, all these things just--

Time: 7990.83

I couldn't even-- the list of shit I had to do, just, wham.

Time: 7995.523

It's like, fuck.

Time: 7996.19

OK.

Time: 7997.15

Wow.

Time: 7998.073

Once you sit down with yourself and say, OK, I

Time: 7999.99

don't want to be like Michael Jordan or Jim Brown--

Time: 8002.495

they're both born on my birthday.

Time: 8003.87

So I looked at their birthday.

Time: 8004.9

I said, oh, maybe I can be one of the--

Time: 8006.525

I can't.

Time: 8007.83

I'm going to be David fucking Goggins.

Time: 8011.66

And that looks like this.

Time: 8014.73

It just came.

Time: 8016.01

Everything flooded.

Time: 8017.54

So every single day of my life, there's

Time: 8021.44

a different thing that comes up that I have to do.

Time: 8024.47

But no one knows what to do because everybody else is

Time: 8026.86

following steps.

Time: 8029

Like the Republican and Democratic parties.

Time: 8031.4

I'm not political--

Time: 8032.28

ANDREW HUBERMAN: Neither am I.

Time: 8033.53

DAVID GOGGINS: --at all for this reason.

Time: 8035.93

Republicans are going to vote Republican.

Time: 8039.12

Democrats are going to vote Democrat.

Time: 8042.41

You're not even a human fucking being, bro.

Time: 8045.43

No way all you fuckers agree with all the same fucking shit.

Time: 8049.19

And I know I don't.

Time: 8050.72

So once you figure out yourself and who you are,

Time: 8054.11

all the answers come.

Time: 8056.27

So every night, a different painting is being painted.

Time: 8060.532

And it's a beautiful painting for myself.

Time: 8062.24

I'm like, OK.

Time: 8063.01

That's it.

Time: 8063.58

It may look the same to most motherfuckers.

Time: 8066.34

But the end result is very fucking different.

Time: 8069.72

That's why my-- if you look at what I've done in 49 years,

Time: 8074.262

it's more than most people will ever do in their life

Time: 8076.47

because they were a race car driver.

Time: 8079.65

And that's what they did.

Time: 8081.09

They drove a fucking car.

Time: 8082.83

It's great.

Time: 8085.56

I was all kind of shit because that's exactly what

Time: 8089.07

the painting was saying to do.

Time: 8090.72

It's what the mind was saying to do.

Time: 8092.32

Wasn't saying just drive a car, so then that race car driver

Time: 8094.35

didn't know what the fuck to do.

Time: 8095.683

He retires from being a race car driver, and they're lost.

Time: 8099.535

People go, how are you still--

Time: 8101.69

I don't get it.

Time: 8103.31

Dude, you're never going to fill your list.

Time: 8106.07

But you never found your list because it never

Time: 8109.04

was presented in front of you because your head was

Time: 8111.83

cluttered with shit because you never just stopped

Time: 8115.65

for lots of minutes, lots of years, and just said,

Time: 8120.3

all right, it's me and you.

Time: 8122.49

Let it go.

Time: 8123.42

And it just-- bam.

Time: 8125.4

It's right there.

Time: 8126.76

It's right there.

Time: 8127.943

ANDREW HUBERMAN: I'm not a psychologist,

Time: 8129.61

as I mentioned before.

Time: 8132.14

But I'm going to venture a hypothesis here.

Time: 8137.9

I think that you've mastered the process of internal dialogue.

Time: 8144.68

But when I say dialogue, I think most people think, oh,

Time: 8147.56

the inner voice, the chatter.

Time: 8150.435

But that's just one half of a dialogue.

Time: 8152.06

A dialogue is a two-way street.

Time: 8155.1

So I completely agree because I know from experience

Time: 8159.175

that when we go inward, oftentimes, we hear things,

Time: 8161.3

if we're really honest with ourselves, it's like, oh no,

Time: 8163.633

I don't want to think about that.

Time: 8165.09

No.

Time: 8165.59

And then we start looking outward.

Time: 8167.007

Or we start trying to shift our attention or distract.

Time: 8171.77

And there are a million reasons that

Time: 8173.42

are handed to us, excuses, and seemingly good justifications

Time: 8177.44

to be able to do that.

Time: 8179.51

But dialogue is a two-way street.

Time: 8181.4

And it hit me while you were just

Time: 8182.833

saying what you were saying, I was

Time: 8184.25

paying very close attention.

Time: 8185.69

And I realized David Goggins is talking about the voice that

Time: 8191

comes up, including the terrible stuff that no one wants

Time: 8194.09

to hear about themselves from themselves.

Time: 8196.799

But then he's also got the dialogue down where

Time: 8199.5

he knows the counter voice.

Time: 8201

He goes, yeah, you're right.

Time: 8202.35

And so I'm going to do this.

Time: 8203.52

Or maybe no, remember this.

Time: 8207.66

You're in a dialogue, a two-way dialogue in there, not

Time: 8211.559

a one-way chatter dialogue.

Time: 8213.33

There are books written by famous psychologists

Time: 8215.91

about chatter, trying to shift your internal narrative.

Time: 8218.43

You're like, bring the internal--

Time: 8220.455

the internal narrative, that's what going inward is about.

Time: 8223.049

But it's not one voice.

Time: 8225.12

Again, there's a hypothesis.

Time: 8226.309

And I'm not claiming to be all-knowing.

Time: 8227.934

Lord knows I'm not all-knowing.

Time: 8230.85

But you've mastered the dialogue.

Time: 8232.9

And if there are three voices, strong, medium, and weak,

Time: 8236.549

in there, you're like, let's all come to the table.

Time: 8239.309

So you've got a symphony of voices in there

Time: 8242.28

that are all you, that you know to be you.

Time: 8244.499

And you know how to have those convers-- you're not

Time: 8247.26

afraid to be in those conversations.

Time: 8248.94

And then you know what the outcome of that committee

Time: 8252.09

decision is, and you put it into real-world action.

Time: 8255.79

And the world only sees the action.

Time: 8257.709

DAVID GOGGINS: That's it.

Time: 8258.751

ANDREW HUBERMAN: And only you can

Time: 8260.23

know your internal dialogue.

Time: 8262.42

And only I can know my internal dialogue.

Time: 8264.7

And the only way to, quote unquote, "know it"

Time: 8266.889

is to spend a hell a lot of time there.

Time: 8268.603

DAVID GOGGINS: That's right.

Time: 8269.77

ANDREW HUBERMAN: OK.

Time: 8270.43

DAVID GOGGINS: A lifetime.

Time: 8271.18

ANDREW HUBERMAN: Got it.

Time: 8271.9

DAVID GOGGINS: A lifetime.

Time: 8272.983

Like, think about it.

Time: 8275.309

For me to be sitting here in front of you,

Time: 8278.4

you're not going to call 300-pound Ecolab

Time: 8281.9

guy to come sit here.

Time: 8283.139

You might.

Time: 8283.639

I don't know.

Time: 8284.33

Maybe.

Time: 8284.93

ANDREW HUBERMAN: Probably not.

Time: 8285.559

DAVID GOGGINS: Probably not.

Time: 8286.726

Think about this.

Time: 8289.059

What we teach people is kind, kindness to yourself.

Time: 8296.12

Do you think if I taught myself kindness--

Time: 8299.07

and I agree with it.

Time: 8300.129

God, so many people-- so many people take me out of context,

Time: 8302.629

it's ridiculous.

Time: 8304.49

Take it however the fuck you want to take it.

Time: 8306.709

When I was 300 pounds, where do you

Time: 8310.302

think that conversation would that got me

Time: 8312.01

if I spoke kindness to myself?

Time: 8313.959

I'll tell you where it gets me.

Time: 8315.82

Right back to 7-Eleven with another box of mini chocolate

Time: 8318.73

donuts and a chocolate milkshake.

Time: 8321.58

That's the one voice.

Time: 8324.68

That's the one voice that most of us have

Time: 8327.337

that you're talking about.

Time: 8328.42

If you don't have a conversation in there, the other voice

Time: 8331.24

that you create that says, OK, how does this look?

Time: 8336.209

Looks very ugly.

Time: 8338.27

That kind conversation for me went away a long time ago,

Time: 8342.549

which is why the dialogue is now what you see.

Time: 8345.15

A lot of action.

Time: 8347.7

Because most people have inaction because there's

Time: 8351.2

one person talking.

Time: 8352.549

And that one person is always leading you

Time: 8354.44

down the same path, the path that

Time: 8356.66

makes you feel very comfortable and happy with yourself.

Time: 8362.08

The second you create the other voice, there's conflict.

Time: 8365.65

Just battles.

Time: 8366.34

Just wars.

Time: 8368.2

Just defeat.

Time: 8370.209

One thing I learned, and I taught myself this,

Time: 8372.49

and people go, I don't understand what you're saying,

Time: 8374.219

I'm going to try to break it down real quick.

Time: 8377.9

I didn't teach myself victory first.

Time: 8381.25

I taught myself failure.

Time: 8383.879

I taught myself how to fail.

Time: 8387.98

And people like, that's so depressing.

Time: 8390.03

Is it?

Time: 8390.87

When you're 300 pounds and you can't read and write

Time: 8393.33

and you're fucked up, you know how many times

Time: 8395.52

you're going to fucking fail on that process?

Time: 8398.23

So if you don't know how to fail, there is no victory.

Time: 8402.31

I never talked about winning because I

Time: 8404.74

knew the path to winning was going

Time: 8408.16

to be years of failing first.

Time: 8410.82

So I taught myself how to fail properly.

Time: 8414.642

No one teaches you how to fucking fail.

Time: 8418.01

But if you're going out for insurmountable fucking

Time: 8421.1

odds that make absolutely no fucking sense,

Time: 8424.76

a Black kid that can't swim, 300 pounds--

Time: 8426.83

going to be a Navy SEAL.

Time: 8428.9

OK.

Time: 8431.46

You better teach yourself how to fail first

Time: 8434.04

because if you sit in failure for too long,

Time: 8438.6

you will never come out of it.

Time: 8440.92

So the first part of my success was

Time: 8445.08

learning how to fail properly.

Time: 8448.68

And then eventually, I started getting a few victories.

Time: 8453.24

But that's what people don't get.

Time: 8455.22

When you have buried yourself in such a deep fucking hole,

Time: 8459.08

you better first talk about the failures

Time: 8461

you're going to have first.

Time: 8461.72

And that's when that other voice comes up.

Time: 8463.1

It tells you, we've got to do something.

Time: 8464.767

But it also tells you, boy, I'm not

Time: 8467.51

going to lie to you, Goggins.

Time: 8469.53

You're in for a fucking climb, bro.

Time: 8472.08

You're going to get your ass handed to you,

Time: 8474.87

made fun of, the outside noise, the inside noise.

Time: 8478.77

Both voices are going to be fucking telling

Time: 8480.87

you to go fuck yourself.

Time: 8482.02

You are in for hell, bro.

Time: 8486.38

I am.

Time: 8487.73

So I better learn to fail.

Time: 8488.89

ANDREW HUBERMAN: So this is what you

Time: 8490.39

mean when you say that whatever anyone says,

Time: 8492.4

it's insignificant?

Time: 8493.228

DAVID GOGGINS: Insignificant as fuck.

Time: 8494.77

ANDREW HUBERMAN: It's the cap gun fire

Time: 8496.353

because it's just like it-- because the voice

Time: 8498.28

in your own head is far worse.

Time: 8500.62

And I should say, sorry, one of the voices in your head.

Time: 8504.67

I'm being very detailed, almost surgical

Time: 8506.783

about that because I think this thing about inner dialogue

Time: 8509.2

we think is one voice.

Time: 8510.61

But you're making it clear it's many voices.

Time: 8513.725

DAVID GOGGINS: It is.

Time: 8514.6

And the thing about it is, you have to be really--

Time: 8519.5

and sometimes all the voices are telling you

Time: 8521.75

the wrong shit, man.

Time: 8523.16

But through years, years, not a podcast or listening to a book

Time: 8528.62

or reading a book, years of sacrifice,

Time: 8532.13

of suffering, of diligent pinpoint fucking work

Time: 8536.99

on what you want to do for yourself,

Time: 8538.61

not like, oh, let me just do a bunch of shit.

Time: 8543.78

Let me-- I want to be in every task possible.

Time: 8547.98

No.

Time: 8548.97

Pinpoint what I want to do with my life.

Time: 8553.3

What happens is you have all these voices that

Time: 8556.925

are telling you you're fucked up,

Time: 8558.3

and this is going to be hard.

Time: 8559.508

But for some reason, you put so much practice into you

Time: 8564.28

that you can ignore every one of them that

Time: 8567.67

are telling you you're not going to fucking make it.

Time: 8570.72

And still be able to fucking make it

Time: 8573.42

because you have put the practice in that you

Time: 8576.245

know this is the process.

Time: 8579.3

It's such a daunting task that all the voices are saying no.

Time: 8584.28

But you still have the conviction

Time: 8586.62

that I know I can do this.

Time: 8588.63

And that's what it took for me to get here.

Time: 8593.37

20, 30 years ago, I had this--

Time: 8595.77

35 or whatever it was, 25 years ago, pipe dream.

Time: 8601.542

And ever since then, every voice was like, you're a fucking nut.

Time: 8607.3

But when you put that practice in every day, you lace them up.

Time: 8610.51

And I mean, run.

Time: 8612.25

It's just a metaphor for life.

Time: 8614.833

When you lace them motherfuckers up every day,

Time: 8616.75

pretty soon, you win.

Time: 8618.46

Pretty soon, you'll fucking win.

Time: 8620.11

If you have the courage and the heart and the dedication

Time: 8622.48

and the mindset of everybody can go fuck themselves,

Time: 8625.4

I know what I know.

Time: 8626.68

I've listened to myself enough to know.

Time: 8629.93

I know what I know.

Time: 8631.19

None of you can hear what I'm hearing.

Time: 8633.86

And that's what people don't do enough of.

Time: 8635.61

They don't listen to their journey.

Time: 8638.19

They listen to everybody else's shit.

Time: 8640.41

Before you know it, I'm crazy.

Time: 8642.3

But if I'm so fucking crazy, why am I so successful?

Time: 8646.81

How that happen?

Time: 8649.06

But I'm so misguided and fucked up.

Time: 8653.27

And don't listen to him.

Time: 8657.57

Why am I the only one to do a whole bunch of shit?

Time: 8660.6

Why am I a trailblazer?

Time: 8663.15

Why?

Time: 8663.78

How is that possible?

Time: 8664.78

How can you be fucked up and also self-made at the same

Time: 8668.37

fucking--

Time: 8669.1

no.

Time: 8669.6

No.

Time: 8670.62

Obviously, you're not looking at the truth in front of you.

Time: 8674.8

The truth in front of you is it sucks.

Time: 8677.14

It's painful.

Time: 8679.43

It's fucking mind-numbing.

Time: 8681.95

And that is the truth.

Time: 8684.09

And that's why a lot of people don't

Time: 8686.6

like listening to me because this is what it takes,

Time: 8689.87

creating another voice and sometimes going at it alone.

Time: 8693.362

All the time going at it alone because no one's

Time: 8695.32

going to believe in you.

Time: 8697.06

And that's that.

Time: 8699.415

ANDREW HUBERMAN: What I'm about to say is not conjecture.

Time: 8701.79

And I can say that with confidence

Time: 8704.01

because I did a four-episode guest

Time: 8705.78

series with a brilliant psychiatrist, a guy named

Time: 8708.45

Paul Conti.

Time: 8709.02

He's from Trenton.

Time: 8710.04

He's a Stanford, Harvard-trained guy.

Time: 8712.278

He's also got a lot of street in him.

Time: 8713.82

He's had his own hardship, real hardship.

Time: 8716.85

He's brilliant.

Time: 8717.48

And he said something that I'll never forget,

Time: 8720.23

which is, we think that the forebrain, the part

Time: 8722.9

of our brain that creates strategy, et cetera,

Time: 8725.81

is the supercomputer.

Time: 8726.685

He said, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Time: 8728.518

No, no, no.

Time: 8729.02

He's like, the supercomputer of the brain

Time: 8731.165

is the unconscious mind.

Time: 8733.95

It's the part of our mind that's controlling most everything.

Time: 8738.42

And most people, unfortunately, don't

Time: 8740.58

do the work to understand how their unconscious is

Time: 8742.71

controlling them.

Time: 8743.73

And that's a scary thing, this idea,

Time: 8745.53

like your mind is controlling you.

Time: 8747.39

And I'm not going to get into the free will debate.

Time: 8749.515

I believe in at least some will.

Time: 8753.12

I believe what you're describing and this internal dialogue,

Time: 8759.08

I think you have access to your unconscious mind

Time: 8762.08

by listening to the dialogue, going inward.

Time: 8764.21

We know this is true in sleep, in dreams, in meditation,

Time: 8767.78

and just by shutting out everything else, shutting out

Time: 8770.78

all the external noise, which is filled

Time: 8773.088

with things that pull us to it.

Time: 8774.38

Noise makes it sound bad, but it's the gravitational pull

Time: 8776.96

of all the things that allow us to distract ourselves

Time: 8779.36

without knowing.

Time: 8782.105

The ice cream.

Time: 8783.29

The have a cookie.

Time: 8784.19

The Merry Christmas.

Time: 8786.5

The unconscious mind, this huge piece

Time: 8788.81

of the iceberg underneath that Paul calls the supercomputer,

Time: 8792.87

he's saying that with knowledge as a neurobiologist,

Time: 8795.17

psychiatrist, psychologist, so he really knows,

Time: 8797.96

that's the piece that if one does real introspection,

Time: 8801.407

he calls it the cupboards.

Time: 8802.49

You got to look in the cupboards.

Time: 8803.51

And it's often really scary what you find in there.

Time: 8805.86

And most people are just like, I don't even

Time: 8807.41

want to know the cupboards are there.

Time: 8808.952

But you're pulling all the cupboard doors open.

Time: 8812.08

And then you're-- and you're extremely deliberate with what

Time: 8815.74

gets put into action.

Time: 8818.02

You're not just going, oh, like, I'm pissed,

Time: 8819.88

so I'm going to act pissed.

Time: 8821.005

Or I'm tired, so I'm going to act tired.

Time: 8823.75

It's you're picking very carefully what to do.

Time: 8827.84

And that's a process that I'm guessing came to you.

Time: 8831.05

Does it come to you as a, OK, it makes

Time: 8833.63

sense why running makes sense.

Time: 8835.91

It makes sense why smokejumping makes sense.

Time: 8840.61

So it seems like a huge portion of your time

Time: 8845.68

is spent understanding yourself and making sense to you.

Time: 8850.49

And so when people don't understand you,

Time: 8852.46

it's got to be extra frustrating because most people don't

Time: 8854.963

understand themselves.

Time: 8855.88

So then we're all running around going, you're this,

Time: 8857.86

and you're that because most people are just

Time: 8859.693

unwilling to look inward.

Time: 8860.86

And I'm including myself, by the way.

Time: 8862.66

I mean, I've done a fair amount of introspection.

Time: 8864.702

But I'm inspired today, that word, inspired, but it's true,

Time: 8867.77

motivated to start going inward further because it is scary.

Time: 8873.785

It's like, we don't know what's in those cupboards,

Time: 8875.91

and it's terrifying, especially because we don't know.

Time: 8879.27

DAVID GOGGINS: And those are the first ones to open up.

Time: 8881.62

And like you talked about, you got

Time: 8882.85

to go through those cupboards.

Time: 8883.63

I do spring cleaning every fucking

Time: 8885.13

day in those dark cupboards.

Time: 8888.09

Those dark cabinets are the ones I start with first.

Time: 8890.59

That's the real me, man.

Time: 8893.118

That's the real me.

Time: 8893.91

That's why I'm not ashamed.

Time: 8896.78

I don't hide.

Time: 8897.91

I used to hide.

Time: 8899.02

I don't hide anymore.

Time: 8900.34

He's exactly right.

Time: 8901.6

I don't know all the fucking science behind shit.

Time: 8904.97

I know what I know.

Time: 8906.125

That's why I don't listen to anybody anymore.

Time: 8908

I don't listen to shit.

Time: 8908.96

I think most people are full of shit because I know.

Time: 8911.53

I know the deep, dark secrets of those fucking cupboards.

Time: 8915.83

It's ugly, man.

Time: 8916.88

And every day, I'm talking to them.

Time: 8918.38

Every day, I'm cleaning them.

Time: 8919.1

I'm cleaning them, and I'm talking

Time: 8920.15

to the same demons that came out of those fucking cupboards

Time: 8922.608

as I'm cleaning them.

Time: 8923.72

Sometimes they go right back in them again.

Time: 8926.91

It's not easy.

Time: 8928.86

And this is why most of us just--

Time: 8932.28

why I am misunderstood because what comes out

Time: 8936.12

of those cabinets that I'm cleaning,

Time: 8939.17

sometimes they see on Instagram.

Time: 8941.527

Sometimes they'll see it in a podcast.

Time: 8943.11

Sometimes they see it in this one.

Time: 8944.527

I turn people off.

Time: 8945.93

Open up your own cabinets.

Time: 8950.37

And then go talk about it.

Time: 8953.4

Let me see how pretty it looks.

Time: 8955.14

Let me see how pretty you sound.

Time: 8957.06

Let me see how put together your words are.

Time: 8960.39

I bet you a fuck or a motherfucker comes out

Time: 8962.4

because for you to go back in there again

Time: 8964.68

to clean the same fucking cabinet that the demon came out

Time: 8967.11

of takes some big balls, bro.

Time: 8970.09

To do it every day of your life.

Time: 8973.44

To go back in there and spring clean every day, not once

Time: 8978.15

a fucking year, once every decade.

Time: 8981.3

Every day you know it gets dusty.

Time: 8983.76

And every day, you don't start with the victories.

Time: 8987.9

You don't go, oh, this is nice.

Time: 8989.46

Look at my-- look at my I love me wall.

Time: 8991.103

Let me clean up.

Time: 8991.77

This is a little dusty.

Time: 8992.55

No.

Time: 8993.09

I go right for the things that are going to keep me buried.

Time: 8996.085

And I go right there first because if I don't clean those

Time: 8998.46

out first, the day doesn't start.

Time: 9001.94

So what are you saying to me is truth.

Time: 9006.25

And like I told you many times today, I

Time: 9009.16

can never figure out how to explain this shit to people

Time: 9013.57

because I'm not neuro nothing.

Time: 9016.69

I'm just a guy that said, OK, we got to start in the dungeon.

Time: 9021.7

And we got to stay here for the rest of our lives.

Time: 9025.5

For you to become successful, the dungeon

Time: 9027.78

is a place that has to be clean.

Time: 9030.65

And it's the scariest place to be.

Time: 9033.06

That's why I'm misunderstood because I'm

Time: 9035.36

speaking from the dungeon.

Time: 9037.01

That's why I am successful because I

Time: 9040.29

go there every damn day.

Time: 9041.88

And that is the truth, what he says.

Time: 9044.43

It's the exact truth.

Time: 9046.17

Those cabinets are fucking dusty, dirty,

Time: 9049.29

and scary as shit.

Time: 9051.33

Broken glass, fucking dark, spiders, cobwebs.

Time: 9058.55

But most of all, your biggest fears,

Time: 9061.7

the biggest things that put you in a fucked up place you

Time: 9064.16

are today are in there.

Time: 9065.72

That's why we all like to keep them shut.

Time: 9067.43

You like to lock them up.

Time: 9068.712

Act like they never happened.

Time: 9069.92

That's why you never grow.

Time: 9071.75

You never improve.

Time: 9073.13

You never have real conversations

Time: 9074.66

like we're having right now.

Time: 9075.89

Never.

Time: 9076.7

Never.

Time: 9077.63

Oh no.

Time: 9078.45

No, no, no, no, no.

Time: 9079.372

Let's not-- no, no, no.

Time: 9080.33

Let's not go there.

Time: 9081.42

I talked to so many people who tell me that.

Time: 9084.81

Let's talk about this.

Time: 9087.592

Because they'll tell me, but they can only say it once.

Time: 9091.32

And they'll say it in passing.

Time: 9092.58

They won't get deep in the weeds with it.

Time: 9094.89

Like, you can't just clean it.

Time: 9097.2

Motherfucker, you got to spit shine that motherfucker.

Time: 9100.5

You got to relive it, every fucking detail of it.

Time: 9105.16

You can't just be like, oh yeah, yeah, my dad beat me.

Time: 9107.61

And it is what it is.

Time: 9111.078

It ain't is what it is, motherfucker.

Time: 9112.62

It's killing you.

Time: 9114.77

It's taken over your whole fucking life.

Time: 9117.408

But that's the conversation.

Time: 9118.575

Yeah, my dad beat-- but I'm fine now, though.

Time: 9120.54

I'm good.

Time: 9121.77

OK.

Time: 9123.37

All right.

Time: 9124.39

No, you ain't.

Time: 9124.99

You ain't fine.

Time: 9126.71

You ain't fine.

Time: 9127.525

This is real talk.

Time: 9128.68

People don't have that.

Time: 9129.85

So your boy's right.

Time: 9131.29

100% right.

Time: 9132.85

Scary as shit.

Time: 9134.32

It's scary as shit.

Time: 9136.81

But it makes you who you're supposed to be.

Time: 9140.48

And that's the test.

Time: 9142.39

We forget.

Time: 9143.44

We think we're supposed to breathe air and have kids

Time: 9146.17

and pay the bills and shit.

Time: 9149.97

But what's this life about?

Time: 9151.89

That makes no sense.

Time: 9154.29

We're being tested, my friend.

Time: 9156.84

Tests come when you have not studied.

Time: 9161.76

Tests come when you think that you're in a great place.

Time: 9165.72

That's the test.

Time: 9166.63

The test is every day of your life.

Time: 9168.42

And most of us fail because we don't

Time: 9170.16

know why we're here because we don't go inward to say, oh.

Time: 9174.42

You gave me a lot of shit to fix, man.

Time: 9177.97

And this test sucks.

Time: 9180.07

But then you start.

Time: 9183.583

ANDREW HUBERMAN: David Goggins.

Time: 9187.41

I don't think I could add to that.

Time: 9188.94

I know I can't.

Time: 9192.82

Thank you for sharing what you shared today.

Time: 9197.45

I mean, as much as your process or anyone's process

Time: 9202.79

can't be completely understood from the outside,

Time: 9208

you gave us a real window into this thing,

Time: 9211.81

this process that you--

Time: 9215.02

as you said, God put it on you.

Time: 9217.27

I believe in God too.

Time: 9218.32

People can believe what they want.

Time: 9219.737

But somehow, your life, God gave you these challenges early on.

Time: 9225.25

And then there was a point where you went internal.

Time: 9230.37

And like you said, you developed a skill.

Time: 9233.95

But it's a perishable skill.

Time: 9235.84

And you clearly live in the process

Time: 9238.99

of opening those cupboards, reopening those cupboards,

Time: 9242.77

trying to spit shine those cupboards,

Time: 9244.66

understanding that they're never, ever really done,

Time: 9248.38

but that you can gain ground on them, that you can win day

Time: 9252.94

after day after day.

Time: 9254.62

And you really shared a lot of concrete things

Time: 9256.99

that I know people are going to be

Time: 9261.01

able to apply if they choose.

Time: 9263.11

And I agree with you.

Time: 9263.99

I think most people will be like, whoa.

Time: 9266.26

That was a lot.

Time: 9268.09

It's heavy.

Time: 9268.87

I think I want to just kind of bake myself in Netflix and Chex

Time: 9274.45

Mix instead.

Time: 9277.11

But there's also the reality that there

Time: 9280.61

are men and women, boys and girls who hear that and go, OK,

Time: 9286

and start cracking the cupboards open.

Time: 9289.72

And I just know that for myself, I'm

Time: 9292.88

extremely grateful that you're willing to put it

Time: 9294.88

all out there.

Time: 9295.66

You're so brutally honest, so brutally authentic.

Time: 9300.28

That word authenticity gets thrown around so much.

Time: 9303.96

And I can tell you that for me and for everybody else, that's

Time: 9307.75

really what resonates.

Time: 9309.01

So whether or not you want to, whether or not it's

Time: 9311.44

the purpose behind it or not, you're lighting the path.

Time: 9315.37

So thank you.

Time: 9317.025

DAVID GOGGINS: Respect Thank you.

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Thanks for having me.

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ANDREW HUBERMAN: Thank you for joining me

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for today's discussion with David Goggins.

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To learn more about David and to find links

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to his two fantastic books, "Can't Hurt Me,"

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and "Never Finished," please see the show note captions.

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If you're learning from and/or enjoying this podcast,

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please subscribe to our YouTube channel.

Time: 9335.35

That's a terrific zero-cost way to support us.

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In addition, please subscribe to the podcast

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And on both Spotify and Apple, you

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Please also check out the sponsors

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mentioned at the beginning and throughout today's episode.

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That's the best way to support this podcast.

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If you have questions or comments about the Huberman Lab

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podcast, or if you have suggestions about guests

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or topics that you'd like me to cover, please

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put those in the comment section on YouTube.

Time: 9360.4

I do read all the comments.

Time: 9362.19

Not on today's episode, but on many previous episodes

Time: 9364.83

of the Huberman Lab podcast, we discuss supplements.

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While supplements aren't necessary for everybody,

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many people derive tremendous benefit from them for things

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like improving sleep, for hormone support, and for focus.

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If you'd like to learn more about the supplements discussed

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on the Huberman Lab podcast, please go to Live Momentous,

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spelled O-U-S. So that's livemomentous.com/huberman.

Time: 9384.7

If you're not already following me on social media,

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I am hubermanlab on all social media platforms.

Time: 9389.78

So that's Instagram, Twitter, Threads, X, LinkedIn,

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and Facebook.

Time: 9393.49

And on all those platforms, I discuss

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science and science-related tools, some of which

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overlaps with the content of the Huberman Lab podcast,

Time: 9399.92

but much of which is distinct from the content

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on the Huberman Lab podcast.

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So again, it's hubermanlab on all social media platforms.

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If you haven't already subscribed

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It is completely zero cost.

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And it provides podcast summaries and protocols

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in the form of brief PDFs of one to three pages,

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things like deliberate cold exposure,

Time: 9420.55

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for managing dopamine, for optimizing your sleep,

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and so on and so on.

Time: 9428.51

Again, completely zero cost.

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You simply go to hubermanlab.com,

Time: 9431.77

go to the menu, scroll down to Newsletter,

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and click on the Newsletter tab.

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And you enter your email to sign up.

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But I should point out that we do not

Time: 9438.91

share your email with anybody.

Time: 9440.638

Thank you, once again, for joining me

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for today's discussion with the one and only David Goggins.

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And last but certainly not least,

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thank you for your interest in science.

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