Calisthenics in Italia? Ecco cosa pensiamo!

Welcome guys!

Today we are here with Gaggi, he came from North Italy, so we are going to do a little talk/podcast about the Calisthenics situation in Italy.

In the last few weeks there is a lot of talking about the Calisthenics Competitions situation in Italy

I don't follow anything about since 2018, so I let Gaggi explain to us briefly

So, if you have some free time you can watch this little talk.

So, what happened in Italy?

Honestly I envy you that you don't know all the current problems

Until 2019 everything was fine, there was a lot of entertainment during the competitions

Then in 2020 athletes and organizers had a meeting to fix some rules,

I didn't take part because I was busy, also because I don't like to talk in these meeting where everyone interrupts you

So I didn't know they added the "micro range of motion skills"

Obviously it was an idea that came from athletes specialized in pulling exercises

Sorry to interrupt you, can you talk about what "micro range of motion skills" are?

Everyone is asking me what a think about, but since I don't follow these things anymore I have no idea what to say.

micro rom skills are tough exercises like a wide front lever pull up,

This makes sense, since the wider the grip the shorter the range of motion.

These micro rom skills are tough but they don't require time, so the athletes takes too much points in just a few seconds, since the reps are super quick.

You can't do more than 2 reps, so you need to add a grip variation if you want to do a lot of points

If you do 2 wide FL straight arms pull ups + 2 wide FL pull ups + 2 wide archer FL pull ups you do more than 30points in just 10 seconds of the set

If you want to do the same points with just pushing skills it's impossible.

My question is: Do they have to hold the Front Lever? or they just need to do the reps.

This is what I don't like

Why if we press a Maltese from the ground we MUST hold the position for 2 seconds to make points while for pulling exercises we don't need to?

For pulling exercises we just need to stop for a split second

Obviously when you must hold the position everything is more difficult

there is difference between planche push ups and planche push ups + planche hold

If we do a Maltese we need to hold the position for at least 2 seconds to make the skills valid

If we don't hold the position for 2 seconds we make 0 points.

In the meanwhile you just need a split second to do a Micro rom skill

So if you do a lot of pulling reps you make way more points

so the competitions is all about "who finds the faster skill in relation of the points"

Christian: I was thinking, how can we do Micro Rom exercises for Pushing elements?

You can only do Wide Back Lever to Touch BL

With FL you can do many variations to do a lot of points, But you can't do these things in Planche, so it's a mess.

Gaggi: No, you can't do Micro Rom in Planche.

Also the problem is that once you lose the proper activation you lose the combo, while at the bar you just need to hang

If you lose the activation in Planche you risk to lose a lot of points, while at the bar you can just hang and reset the position while maintaining the combo...

Also, in pulling exercises if you don't hold the position for a split seconds you just get a little penalty (For Example from 5 points you make just 4,5 points)

while in pushing exercises you make 0 points...

But if you do a push skill you need 2 seconds hold, it takes double the time...

What do you mean for "a split second hold"?

Explanation: For pulling exercise (like Wide FL Pull ups) you don't need to hold the position to make points, while in planche push ups you need to hold it for 2 seconds...

Christian: Okay, when you do planche push ups you lose precious time to add the hold at the end..

Gaggi: For Pulling skills you just need half a second to make points.

So...these are the methods of judgment in Italy..

Gaggi: My idea to fix the situation is to add the "hold" to make points in pulling skills too...so if you want to do a Wide FL Straight Arms Pull ups you need to hold 2" while on top

But this is not the only problem right now...

The problem is that all the competitions in the last few years are the same, athletes just do the same skills over and over, there is not entertainment

If there isn't much people watching competitions then this type of "discipline/workout" will never become a "sport"

The risk is that nobody is interested in watching these competitions anymore

This is such a shame, because the interest has grown from 2012 to 2018/19.

Also in the covid period 2020 and 2021 a lot of people started training at home with calisthenics, so now a lot of people knows this type of workout, but the interested in competitions is disappeared in my opinion

I make a living with Calisthenics, but nobody asking me if I can teach them skills because the have watched in competitions, they just want to improve their body/basic exercises.

There is a lot of potential, but with these type of competitions it'll die.

Chri: In the last 3 or 4 years everything has fallen apart, because the competitions in Italy sucks

If the situation in Italy doesn't change nobody will be interested anymore in these type of competitions.

Gaggi: I won't take part to the Italian National Championship if things are not going to change for the better.

Do you know the difference between "pulling sets" points and "pushing set" points?

So, with a "pulling set" with intermediate exercises you can make up to 55 or 60 points.

While with an "advanced pushing set" we can make just 60 points...

Pulling athletes used to do 40 points, but now with these rules they can suddenly make 60 points easily with the same exercises.

I think people will hate me for saying this ahahah

Chri: I think anyone should be free to do whatever he wants in a Freestyle competitions, otherwise is not freestyle...

There is not a good balance between "Pushing" and "Pulling" skills.

I think is okay to make points with difficult exercises, even though there are so many skills that is too difficult to find the proper points ratio between EVERY Calisthenics Element.

Chri: You know what I used to like some years ago? That everything must have done properly to make points.

I think the movement called "caruso" (From Front Lever to Victorian with straight arms) is only the one on rings, but now they make the same points if you do using the bar too, it doesn't have any sense.

Let's talk about the first One Arm Planche in a competitions, 2016 or 2017?

Andrea: I think 2015

Chri: No, you used to do OAPL in 2015 competitions, but in 2016/2017 they changed the rules, so to make it valid you must have the arm completely locked out.

So they used to give points only if you were able to follow the proper activation, but now for the "caruso" skill (a rings skills) you don't really need to do it on rings..

In short, athletes doing the "caruso" at the bar, is not the same skill, it shouldn't be valid.

Sorry to interrupt you, stop name Caruso, otherwise people think we are talking bad about him.

We are talking about the skill not the athlete ahahah

We have nothing against Manu, we love you

I'd like to talk about the calisthenics athletes in Italy,

we have already said it in the video for your Youtube Channel.

In my opinion Italian athletes are super strong, but the problem is that they are boring, they need to follow the rules of competitions

Chri: But nobody likes the rules.

I think the rules must give the athletes the opportunity to be theirselves.

For example the opportunity to do some freestyle with a static combo is definitely more interesting to the audience

The more the audience the better the business, so everybody will knows about this type of workout.

Chri: Let's make a step back, Calisthenics used to be Back Lever, Muscle ups and similar in a park, and people was shocked watching these skills.

Nowadays these skills are pointless in the competitions

And athletes are just doing skills to make points, so people is not interested in watching competitions anymore.

This is the problem, nobody is interested.

Chri: People is not interested because athletes just do the same over and over trying to make "points"

The difference between this and Gymnastic is that in Gymnastic there is still opportunity to do creative skills/combos

Nowadays in Italian Calisthenics Freestyle Competitions athletes just does the same elements, so the winner will be the one with more "endurance"...

How many athletes are able to do a complete set of skills in competitions? 2?

Gaggi: Almost nobody, they just try to adapt to the rules to make points. So they prefer to walk between parallettes and parallels to continue the "set", since there are no penalties.

Chri: But by doing that the entertainment doesn't exist, this is why I call them "endurance sets" and not "freestyle sets"

Nowadays it's a "race" to who does more quick skills,

Gaggi: But there are a few athletes who does some good complete set

Chri: Probably 2 or 3 out of 40 athletes..

Andrea: But the ones who does the complete sets don't make enough points to get to the podium...

Gaggi: there is also a "continuity bonus" for complete sets without interruptions

Chri: Yes, but it's not good enough, nobody cares about it sadly

Out of 40 athletes nobody cares about the continuity during a set. We are talking of 40 athletes, not 16 like few years ago.

But a few years ago they used to be 16 only due to the online qualification ahahah

Gaggi: Nowadays 20 out of 40 athletes are intermediate athletes.

Chri: Yes, but out of 40 athletes only 3 or 4 were able to do a good complete set without interruptions between skills.

Sorry to interrupt you, but I think they got the idea of what we are talking

I just want to say some positive things about Italian Calisthenics

I think that there are some Elite athletes in every aspect of this discipline, Endurance, Freestyle Skills, Weighted Exercises etc.

In my opinion there are so many great world level athletes in Italy

but it's a shame to say that not many athletes would be able to compete and win abroad italy

because there are different judging rules in skills competitions

What I like of some Competitions out from Italy are the 1 vs 1 battles.

It's like a boxing match, but with calisthenics skills, people is entertained.

People would love it

the 1st athlete does 30 seconds of set, then the 2nd one tries to do the same but with a little extra and so on.

Maybe it wouldn't be a championship anymore with 1 long battle,

People would be so involved in competitions like in a break dance battle.

And maybe by doing so the competitions would be much more entertaining

Chri: This is the perfect example of your competition in Madrid back in 2017 when you replicated the static set of Laizans

Because this is the way I see a Calisthenics battle,

I want the audience to have fun while watching us athletes

This is why the event was full of great entertaining moments with every battle

By doing that, everyone have fun, and no matter which position the athletes arrives,

Chri: This is what I miss of Calisthenics

This is why I detached from Calisthenics, because already in 2018 I didn't like some methods of judging in Italy.

Because I felt like I was forced to do my sets

In 2018 I didn't know they had changed the judging system once again, so I just did my qualification set as usual with my style of skills, but I didn't make much points due to many limits in the rules.

One of the limits was the 2 reps max per skill

Gaggi: I don't always read the judging system, but I think we need to get the right amount of points in relation to the difficulty of the set we bring during the competitions

You probably did planche push ups and many more difficult skills, but the other athletes just did the skills with the better value

In my opinion this judging system has ruined the Creativity of the athletes

Gaggi: I do agree

I don't like the idea of doing micro rom skills, this is not my style

My style is to do some dynamic skills, one arm handstands, pushing skills

Chri: What I do miss is the possibility do a lot of spontaneous combos

Athletes are like sheeps, they just follow what the organization says and they obey

I don't want to make it look like we are attacking the organization, but that way this type of competitions will die.

Gaggi: It's not the organization's fault, because the judges usually does calls with athletes

Athletes have proposed these micro rom skills

Chri: I don't want to attack anybody, but I must be honest...I do not like the current situation.

This is such a shame.

Obviously with this video we don't want to complain, we are just saying what we think about the current situation in Italy.

There is so much potential for this discipline to grow...

as we were talking behind the camera, in the last 2 years people are less and less interested in these competitions

Gaggi: What do you mean?

I mean, also the winner of these competitions can't get much recognition from people, they wanna win just for personal satisfaction.

We were able to get sponsors and do a lot of Calisthenics Exhibitions thanks to the recognition we got from the old competitions,

These athletes works hard everyday for months/years just to win a competition and not get enough money..they need to do something else as a job

Gaggi: Yes, athletes can't make a living out of it

Chri: A few years ago the competitions were also full of audience

Last competition I have watched had only about 40 people in the audience,

Gaggi: Just watch our old competitions videos with hundreds of thousands of views, while the new competitions only have a few thousands of views

Andrea: Also because the athletes does always the same skills

Gaggi: Talking about views, old competitions had 200/300.000 views while the new ones have about 30.000.

Chri: It's not about views

Gaggi: It's still a way to make the sport more recognized

Chri: It's good for the recognition, but also the involvement was different, people used to stop stunned watching us doing crazy battles.

Andrea: I remember 7 years ago (in 2015) I went to a World Cup Competition in Germany and there was like 3000 or 5000 people watching us

Chri: The world cup stage you arrived 2nd?

yes, but we are talking about 7 years ago, nowadays competitions in Italy only have 50 people...

4 years ago in Italy were only a few hundreds people watching us, but now it's even less

Gaggi: Maybe because there is a limitation with greenpass

Chri: But it's not due to the greenpass...

Gaggi: In 2020 in Bardolino there was some people, but after that competition everything went worst

Andrea: What I don't like is that nowadays they organize competitions inside the gyms and not inside some stadiums or in bigger events

Chri: The organization was better few years ago when they invited Daniels, Eryc etc. they organized in the beach

Andrea: Yes, that was inside a bigger event, so people were stopping by to watch us

Chri: Also the competitions in Rimini Wellness

Gaggi: What about Bibbiena? ahahah

Chri: It's just getting worse by the year

In short I think it's just a shame to not being able to promote properly the discipline, because one day it could become a sport

The final goal should be to organize competitions so the athletes grows skills to being able to compete abroad

It's not easy to being able to do complete combos with push + pull statics + freestyle.

I do rarely try these combos, probably 1 or 2 per year, but everything is different from the Italian rules

To do some front lever pull ups or maltese after some freestyle is different, for example if you want to do 2-3 front lever pull ups after a long freestyle combo you need to being able to do at least 6-8 reps easily in training.

Gaggi: I hate when people say to me that I can "rest" while doing a 1 arm handstand or some freestyle, they have no idea of the focus we need.

You need a lot of focus to not lose the balance

Gaggi: Also for freestyle you are doing fast movements, it's like a "cardio" training. (Like doing a lot of burpees and planche push ups)

Andrea: The forearms after a very long combo at the bar are at 50% or 60% than their potential.

Chri: Andrea said he doesn't follow the situation abroad Italy, but I do a little bit.

And as bad as that sounds, Italian Athletes can't really wins competitions with just their crazy static level.

Gaggi: I think we have some chances with a little of dynamics

Andrea: If we start doing again some freestyle maybe

Chri: With some freestyle like I did in Vienna, there is a good probability to do good sets.

I like the freestyle, I like to do combos

Also Andrea did some freestyle in the past

Gaggi usually does some freestyle in competitions

but we are probably 5 or 6 athletes only to being able to do complete combos

Andrea: Viki used to do freestyle, I think he is one of the most complete athletes in the world, but he isn't appreciated much from people sadly

He used to do many freestyle skills, he had crazy good endurance with the basics and now he is killing it with weighted calisthenics exercises.

Gaggi: I think he is getting bored, maybe he can start some arm wrestling ahahah

Chri: So, we are probably 6 or 7 athletes to being able to do freestyle in Italy

Chri: Who would be able to do good in international competitions?

You know who? Lorenzo Surpoli, but sadly not many people knows him

Chri: But he isn't training anymore, I had a call with him a few weeks ago and he said that he got bored of this type of competitions/training.

He said he used to have much fun in the past, but now probably due to the covid situation and the Italian Rules in competitions he doesn't have it anymore

Andrea: yes, there are many things that doesn't let you enjoy the "sport".

Chri: He was able to do crazy tricks and skills but he got bored....

I thinks it's enough for today...please let us know what you think about the situation with a comment below

Gaggi: Good luck to your brother with the editing ahahah.

Andrea: But I'm the man who translates everything ahah

Chri: The funny thing is that he said a few minutes of record are 500Gb, I can't imagine how much Gb will be this video.

I want to thanks Gaggi and Christian for the talk

a greeting to all the athletes who still competes and tries to carry on this ""discipline/sport""

See you soon!